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#21
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dotnet windows forms vs. Access
....NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is
surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... So... How about: "Amongst my reasons are such diverse elemets as..." g Cheers! Fred Boer "Robert Morley" wrote in message ... I came up with three things: 1) Really-RAD Development. I can turn on a dime and deliver 2) Minimal User Impact: The people I serve tend to be in Uh...what happened to 3) ? |
#22
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dotnet windows forms vs. Access
On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 16:34:07 -0400, "Fred Boer"
wrote: ...NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! or... given the off-topic posts that have been turning up here... NOBODY expects the Spamish imposition! John W. Vinson [MVP] |
#23
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dotnet windows forms vs. Access
"PMK" wrote in message news On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 11:22:43 +0200, "Tore" wrote: I have done a lot of Access clients to SQL Server and find it very powerful. Here are some pros and cons: Vs.net provides a lot more functionality for windows clients than access. Therefore it is also more complicated to learn and use. If you do not need the extra functionality compared access, then access could be your choice. Tore, Can you give me a few examples? Peter I use stored procedures on SQL Server a lot. They perform fast and are easy to debug. If you dont know them look into SQL Server Help. I use stored procedures to download data to the Access .adp client as well as for inserts, updates and deletes on SQL Server. Once the stored procedure is established on SQL Server, I will normally use ADO to run it from the Access client. You can learn som ADO he http://www.w3schools.com/ado/default.asp My code in an Access forms module to call a stored procedure with parameters could be something like this: Dim CMD As New ADODB.Command, OwnerID As New ADODB.Parameter, YearID As New ADODB.Parameter, _ AccountName As New ADODB.Parameter, RetAccountID As New ADODB.Parameter CMD.ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection CMD.CommandType = adCmdStoredProc CMD.CommandText = "MSP_InsertCustomerAccount" 'The name of the stored procedure Set OwnerID = CMD.CreateParameter("OwnerID", adInteger, adParamInput, , Forms!Menu.cboCompany) CMD.Parameters.Append OwnerID Set YearID = CMD.CreateParameter("YearID", adInteger, adParamInput, , Forms!Menu.cboFiscalYear) CMD.Parameters.Append YearID Set AccountName = CMD.CreateParameter("AccountName", adVarChar, adParamInput, 100, Me.txtName) CMD.Parameters.Append AccountName Set RetAccountID = CMD.CreateParameter("AccountID", adInteger, adParamOutput) CMD.Parameters.Append RetAccountID CMD.Execute You can use a stored procedure as a recordsource of your form, but this would make it a bound form. What you also could do is to download data to an ADO recordset in your .adp client and use the recordset data to populate an unbound form. You call a stored procedure that returns some recordset. Sample code above can be used for this. You have to add/change some lines of code: DIM RS as new ADODB.Recordset Then lines as in example above Set RS = CMD.Execute in stead of CMD.Execute If the stored procedure returns data they will go into the recordset RS, and you can use the RS recordset data to update controls of your unbound forms. Normally one would add some errorhandling as well. Regards Tore |
#24
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dotnet windows forms vs. Access
Per To
I use stored procedures on SQL Server..... They ... are easy to debug. Compared to VBA code - where I can pause the execution, examine values, and single-step the code - I find stored procedures very time-consuming to debug. Kind of like CoBOL without dumps or traces. Do you have any special tools for debugging? -- PeteCresswell |
#25
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dotnet windows forms vs. Access
That sounds like something Bush would say. :-)
Rob "Fred Boer" wrote in message ... ...NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... So... How about: "Amongst my reasons are such diverse elemets as..." g Cheers! Fred Boer "Robert Morley" wrote in message ... I came up with three things: 1) Really-RAD Development. I can turn on a dime and deliver 2) Minimal User Impact: The people I serve tend to be in Uh...what happened to 3) ? |
#26
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dotnet windows forms vs. Access
"PMK" wrote in message ... On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 09:42:06 +0100, "Baz" wrote: That won't work with subforms, and with multiple subforms the coding to deal with all the various errors a user could make in any of multiple fields which will cause the record to save is extremely difficult, time consuming and gives a less satisfying result than unbound forms. I do admit to a fondness for unbound forms in general, as I have found it is easier to create idiot proof forms that way. What will not work with subforms? You've lost me. it? If you add a record through a bound form or an unbound form you still need to delete it if it's a mistake. With a bound form you can do these things without having to write a line of code, with unbound forms you have to program all of these functions. How is that easier? You are using unbound subforms? How, exactly? In Access, local temporary tables. With ADP it can get tricky. Sometimes SQL temp tables, sometimes permanent tables that simply hold the subform info on a temporary basis until it gets saved, or a combination of both. I appreciate your other comments and thoughts. Peter Ohhhhh I begin to see where you are coming from. You're talking about entering records in both a main form and a subform as a single logical transaction. Not a requirement I have often encountered, although I have needed to do it once or twice. Would be interesting to hear more about your circumstances. Presumably when you use local tables in an mdb, temporary tables in SQL Server or whatever, you are binding forms to them? Otherwise why use tables at all as your "temporary" repository? |
#27
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dotnet windows forms vs. Access
Hi Robert,
Yes, I had a good go at doing that when the form's Recordset property was first exposed to use, it was unusable, Access crashed all over the place. "Robert Morley" wrote in message ... In Access, local temporary tables. With ADP it can get tricky. Sometimes SQL temp tables, sometimes permanent tables that simply hold the subform info on a temporary basis until it gets saved, or a combination of both. I believe you can also use subforms using ADO recordsets bound to the .Recordset property...but I do seem to remember a lot of crashiness and other problems going that route, so I don't recommend it, necessarily. Rob |
#28
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dotnet windows forms vs. Access
On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 01:13:37 +0200, "Tore" wrote:
"PMK" wrote in message news On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 11:22:43 +0200, "Tore" wrote: I have done a lot of Access clients to SQL Server and find it very powerful. Here are some pros and cons: Vs.net provides a lot more functionality for windows clients than access. Therefore it is also more complicated to learn and use. If you do not need the extra functionality compared access, then access could be your choice. Tore, Can you give me a few examples? Tore, I am familiar with and use stored procedures. I meant examples of what you mean by: "Vs.net provides a lot more functionality for windows clients than access." Peter |
#29
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dotnet windows forms vs. Access
On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 07:38:55 +0100, "Baz"
wrote: Ohhhhh I begin to see where you are coming from. You're talking about entering records in both a main form and a subform as a single logical transaction. Not a requirement I have often encountered, although I have I'm not sure how you could avoid it other than (off the top of my head) putting the main form data onto a subform also. Anyway, in my situation users enter main form data and then go on to enter subform data. That is in a perfect world. They may try to enter the subform data first which sets off an unhappy chain of events in bound forms. Yes these (sub)forms are bound also, but not to the 'permanent' tables so nothing is entered into the db until the operator (and my validation code) has clearly indicated that the data is cleared to be processed. BTW, deletes are often not treated casually and may only allowed by certain operators and even then tracked so the unintentional saving of a record is not a trivial event. I may also deal with this in a variety of other ways, including hiding subforms until essential data is entered. Sometimes that works well - sometimes not. These strategies can't be divorced from the real world situation. I mean you have to put yourself in the data entry person's shoes and tailor the form to their skills, needs and working patterns and also anticipate the kind of mistakes they will probably make and figure out the best way to recover from them. needed to do it once or twice. Would be interesting to hear more about your circumstances. Maybe it is just a difference in style. I did not look for ways to avoid this. It (unbound forms) seemed the best way of the various alternatives to make the users the most productive and avoid data entry errors and frustrations, particularly as my users are mostly not native English speakers nor particularly computer savvy -suggesting using the ESC key to reverse a data entry would just be a waste of time as would be suggesting using the built in Access menus, which I do not expose to them. I don't regret it - the system works well, is easy for them, and in fact data entry errors and service calls were few (I am thinking of the app with the heaviest use of unbound forms). Presumably when you use local tables in an mdb, temporary tables in SQL Server or whatever, you are binding forms to them? Otherwise why use tables at all as your "temporary" repository? Yes, the subforms are always bound to temporary tables - either Access or MS SQL temp tables or tables used to store the data temporarily until it is written to the main tables. The main form may or may not be. I've also tried binding to recordsets with mixed results. For me, an added advantage of using tables over code is it is easier that way for me to go back a year or two or three later and quickly refresh myself as to what the logic in that part of the application is. I find all the comments about my approach being the worst of two worlds interesting. To me that implies I not only wasted a lot of time but also produced an inferior product. Yet I've taken on jobs that others have tried and failed to complete and produced a result that has satisfied the requirements of the clients which is demonstrated not only in their initial remarks and experiences, but by the fact they by and large have continued to use and rely on the apps for years and years. In fact, other than perhaps a slicker look using VB, I can't see how the apps could be better! And with the last and most complex one I had a lot of time to mull over that, as I worked as I.T. Admin for that client for 5 years after creating the app, did some tweaking on it in that time, but never had cause to question the underlying construction, including form strategies. It might be the worst of one or even two worlds for a completely different applcation though - which could be said of almost any approach. ;-) Peter |
#30
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dotnet windows forms vs. Access
On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 08:21:41 -0700, "Norman Yuan"
wrote: - All sorts of web applications. MS Access app (*.mdb/*.accdb/*.adp) is typical desktop client application. You cannot create web application with it, either client side or server side. Actually my question (it's in the subject line) regards windows forms only. Do not mention Access DAP, it is useless. Do you mean ADP? If so, sorry but that statement is not only wrong, it's silly.If you want to defend it, then how about some facts and not just a 'don't mention it'? It's not useless to my clients and one in particular that has been very dependent on an ADP I did for them seven years ago that has given them a huge competitive edge on their competition. If that app stops working, then they stop working and neither has happened other than from hardware failures. Now DAP, whatever that is, may indeed be useless but you have to tell us what is is first. ;-). Peter |
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