I've been banned from UtterAccess

You have described something that was among my reasons for leaving NYC. I
never really fit in anyhow, but fortunately for my life on the outside I
never acquired the confrontational habit.

"Gina Whipp" wrote in message
...
David,

I am sorry to hear you got banned... Being a former New Yorker, I
understand how alot of people misunderstand your direct 'tone' and can get
offended. To digress... when I first moved to Ohio and took a job I was
unhappy about the way the cleaning service cleaned the office. As a New
Yorker, I called and YELLED. Well, the woman started crying and that set
me off even more. My now good friend Lorraine looked at me and explained
THIS is Ohio and if you want something done all you have to do is ask. Of
course, I was stunned! Anyway, I did call up and apologize and explained
"Oops, new concept to me... to just ask!" and all was forgiven. (By the
way, it did take me almost a year to stop yelling first.)

Back to the point... Now perhaps, after everyone has calmed down you can
'talk' to the moderators or maybe you don't want to, up to you really.
But I personally will not ban the site and would not recommend for anyone
to do so. No matter where you go there is the good, the bad and the ugly
(LOVED that movie) but for the MOST part that site is great for beginners,
intermediate and there is even some top grade advice, code and solutions
there on expert level. (Unfortunately, all I ever do there is post a link
to my web site as I don't have time to answer and read the posting much
since I can get it my newsreader.)

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"David W. Fenton" wrote in message
36.90...
For calling a stupid suggestion a stupid suggestion, one of the
moderators at UtterAccess has banned me because I refused to
apologize for the infraction of calling bad advice bad advice.

Be warned that on UtterAccess.com, anyone can post terrible advice
if they do it politely (according to what the moderators arbitrarily
consider "polite") and continue to post bad advice. If, on the other
hand, one strongly criticizes someone else's advice, you can be
banned, even if you're right about the bad advice.

I would suggest that this should makes anyone question the
reliability of anything posted on UtterAccess if it's not confirmed
elsewhere.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

On Mar 18, 6:11*pm, "David W. Fenton"
wrote:
For calling a stupid suggestion a stupid suggestion, one of the
moderators at UtterAccess has banned me because I refused to
apologize for the infraction of calling bad advice bad advice.

Be warned that on UtterAccess.com, anyone can post terrible advice
if they do it politely (according to what the moderators arbitrarily
consider "polite") and continue to post bad advice. If, on the other
hand, one strongly criticizes someone else's advice, you can be
banned, even if you're right about the bad advice.

I would suggest that this should makes anyone question the
reliability of anything posted on UtterAccess if it's not confirmed
elsewhere.

--
David W. Fenton * * * * * * * * *http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com * *http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

Boo hoo, UA was mean to me.

See now a New Yorker would say... "Not confrontational, just direct!". As
an Ohian (Now), I understand EXACTLY what you mean.

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"BruceM" wrote in message
...
You have described something that was among my reasons for leaving NYC. I
never really fit in anyhow, but fortunately for my life on the outside I
never acquired the confrontational habit.

"Gina Whipp" wrote in message
...
David,

I am sorry to hear you got banned... Being a former New Yorker, I
understand how alot of people misunderstand your direct 'tone' and can
get offended. To digress... when I first moved to Ohio and took a job I
was unhappy about the way the cleaning service cleaned the office. As a
New Yorker, I called and YELLED. Well, the woman started crying and that
set me off even more. My now good friend Lorraine looked at me and
explained THIS is Ohio and if you want something done all you have to do
is ask. Of course, I was stunned! Anyway, I did call up and apologize
and explained "Oops, new concept to me... to just ask!" and all was
forgiven. (By the way, it did take me almost a year to stop yelling
first.)

Back to the point... Now perhaps, after everyone has calmed down you can
'talk' to the moderators or maybe you don't want to, up to you really.
But I personally will not ban the site and would not recommend for anyone
to do so. No matter where you go there is the good, the bad and the ugly
(LOVED that movie) but for the MOST part that site is great for
beginners, intermediate and there is even some top grade advice, code and
solutions there on expert level. (Unfortunately, all I ever do there is
post a link to my web site as I don't have time to answer and read the
posting much since I can get it my newsreader.)

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" -
Tremors II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"David W. Fenton" wrote in message
36.90...
For calling a stupid suggestion a stupid suggestion, one of the
moderators at UtterAccess has banned me because I refused to
apologize for the infraction of calling bad advice bad advice.

Be warned that on UtterAccess.com, anyone can post terrible advice
if they do it politely (according to what the moderators arbitrarily
consider "polite") and continue to post bad advice. If, on the other
hand, one strongly criticizes someone else's advice, you can be
banned, even if you're right about the bad advice.

I would suggest that this should makes anyone question the
reliability of anything posted on UtterAccess if it's not confirmed
elsewhere.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

Hi David,

Too bad about you getting banned. You've got good advice to give to
all of us who need help understanding Access.

However, having been on the receiving end of one of your posts that
had NOTHING to do with helping me, but only about how you'd "never
do..." (this) and that the design of the database I'm working on is
"flawed" (I think you said) without knowing any of the facts involved,
I can see where someone would take offense at the way you say things.
Not what you say...but the *way* you say it.

It was nice, though, that when you said that to me I was able to tell
you to stick it in your ear, so to speak. Something that probably
wouldn't have been allowd on the Utter Access site from what you
indicate here. Never having been there, I don't know for sure...but I
think I'll now check it out--thanks for the tip about other good
avenues for investigating the ins and outs of Access.

Anyway, David... you might consider how you talk (type) to people--
this problem with the moderator may not be the moderator's fault.
I've always thought your advice is solid, though, so maybe try to work
it out at a later time.

Hang in,
ron

On Mar 18, 3:11*pm, "David W. Fenton"
wrote:
For calling a stupid suggestion a stupid suggestion, one of the
moderators at UtterAccess has banned me because I refused to
apologize for the infraction of calling bad advice bad advice.

Be warned that on UtterAccess.com, anyone can post terrible advice
if they do it politely (according to what the moderators arbitrarily
consider "polite") and continue to post bad advice. If, on the other
hand, one strongly criticizes someone else's advice, you can be
banned, even if you're right about the bad advice.

I would suggest that this should makes anyone question the
reliability of anything posted on UtterAccess if it's not confirmed
elsewhere.

--
David W. Fenton * * * * * * * * *http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com * *http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

maybe it's because you don't use a real database-- and only
professional developers can earn a living in NYC?
maybe it's because you don't use a real database-- and only
professional developers can earn a living in NYC?
maybe it's because you don't use a real database-- and only
professional developers can earn a living in NYC?
maybe it's because you don't use a real database-- and only
professional developers can earn a living in NYC?



On Mar 19, 7:19*am, "BruceM" wrote:
You have described something that was among my reasons for leaving NYC. *I
never really fit in anyhow, but fortunately for my life on the outside I
never acquired the confrontational habit.

"Gina Whipp" wrote in message

...



David,

I am sorry to hear you got banned... *Being a former New Yorker, I
understand how alot of people misunderstand your direct 'tone' and can get
offended. *To digress... when I first moved to Ohio and took a job I was
unhappy about the way the cleaning service cleaned the office. *As a New
Yorker, I called and YELLED. *Well, the woman started crying and that set
me off even more. *My now good friend Lorraine looked at me and explained
THIS is Ohio and if you want something done all you have to do is ask. *Of
course, I was stunned! *Anyway, I did call up and apologize and explained
"Oops, new concept to me... to just ask!" and all was forgiven. *(By the
way, it did take me almost a year to stop yelling first.)

Back to the point... Now perhaps, after everyone has calmed down you can
'talk' to the moderators or maybe you don't want to, up to you really.
But I personally will not ban the site and would not recommend for anyone
to do so. *No matter where you go there is the good, the bad and the ugly
(LOVED that movie) but for the MOST part that site is great for beginners,
intermediate and there is even some top grade advice, code and solutions
there on expert level. *(Unfortunately, all I ever do there is post a link
to my web site as I don't have time to answer and read the posting much
since I can get it my newsreader.)

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"David W. Fenton" wrote in message
. 136.90...
For calling a stupid suggestion a stupid suggestion, one of the
moderators at UtterAccess has banned me because I refused to
apologize for the infraction of calling bad advice bad advice.

Be warned that on UtterAccess.com, anyone can post terrible advice
if they do it politely (according to what the moderators arbitrarily
consider "polite") and continue to post bad advice. If, on the other
hand, one strongly criticizes someone else's advice, you can be
banned, even if you're right about the bad advice.

I would suggest that this should makes anyone question the
reliability of anything posted on UtterAccess if it's not confirmed
elsewhere.

--
David W. Fenton * * * * * * * * *http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com * *http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Steve Schapel" wrote in
:

Can you please wait until your blood pressure has returned to
nornal, and then try to continue discussing the problem with the
UA administrators, in attempt to resolve?

What's to resolve? They can't stand posts where blunt criticism is
directed at another person's advice. I didn't make an ad hominem
attack -- I attacked someone's advice, called it "stupid" and
explained why. I was told that I had to apologize. I refused
(because I had nothing to apologize for) and was banned.

How could I participate again in a forum in which I can be banned
for just being myself?

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

"Tony Toews [MVP]" wrote in
:

"David W. Fenton" wrote:

For calling a stupid suggestion a stupid suggestion, one of the
moderators at UtterAccess has banned me because I refused to
apologize for the infraction of calling bad advice bad advice.

Be warned that on UtterAccess.com, anyone can post terrible advice
if they do it politely (according to what the moderators
arbitrarily consider "polite") and continue to post bad advice.
If, on the other hand, one strongly criticizes someone else's
advice, you can be banned, even if you're right about the bad
advice.

Occasionally the tone of your replies are quite negative and
sarcastic. I've mentioned this a number of times over the years.
If indeed this was one of those postings then I can understand
why the moderators would ban you.

I called someone's advice "stupid" and then explained why. You can't
tell whether or not what I posted was beyond the pale because it's
now been edited out of the post (along with part of my explanation
of the problem with the advice).

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

strive4peace wrote in
:

with all due respect, it was not your opinion that banned you, it
was the degrading way you delivered it, and your subsequent
refusal to apologize. You were given a chance to make things
right... 2 days -- so it was not an immediate decision.

I have nothing to apologize for. I criticized someone's advice,
calling it stupid. It *was* stupid advice. How can I apologize for
something that I don't feel apologetic about?

You have great ideas, it is just too bad that you cannot realize
other have them too... There was no need to be mean.

I did not attack someone personally. I attacked his *advice*. There
is a huge difference, and the inability of UA moderators to
understand the difference is preciselly what's wrong with the whole
situation.

You were recommending replication, which has been removed from the
latest version.

No, it HAS NOT BEEN REMOVED.

As that is the case, the other poster was suggesting
alternate approaches

And I said that was stupid advice, and explained why. SharePoint is
not a replacement for replication (even though MS would like us to
believe it is).

[]

I hope that you can get over your confrontational nature because
you are a brilliant man with much outstanding knowledge to share.

You're welcome to your opinion. I've been around the Internet
participating in forums on Usenet and elsewhere for about 15 years.
I don't know what has happened to people, but when I started out on
the Internet, the discourse was spirited and commited. People cared
about what they were posting, which meant that when they disagreed
with someone's advice, they didn't feel any need to sugarcoat their
response.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

"Chris O'C via AccessMonster.com" u29189@uwe wrote in
news:93549059d6aa2@uwe:

Once again, David Fenton *knows* what he's talking about. He just
doesn't say it with a spoonful of honey to make it go down easier.

You are so very kind, and I'm glad to find out that other people
reading the thread understood my point. I don't know if you saw my
original response, the one that prompted the request that I
apologize, but I called the advice given "stupid." I didn't call the
person who made it stupid -- had I done so, I should have
apologized.

Your post delineates exactly why the advice was stupid (I was much
less verbose in dismissing SharePoint), and makes me feel
substantially less regretful about refusing to apologize.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

"Larry Linson" wrote in
:

There are
several very knowledgeable MVPs who are regular participants at
Utter Access, but I am not familiar with the site and the way it
operates. My time and energy is not even sufficient to do all the
newsgroup posting/responding that I'd like to accomplish, much
less to visit "Access sites" on any regular basis.

I took on UA as a forum that I monitored for the purpose of making
sure there was reliable information on Jet Replication posted there.
When I first encountered the site, there was lots of misinformation
and bad advice in regard to replication, and there was a real need
for some factual information. I have monitored the site regular for
mentions of replication and tried to provide help on that subject.
Mostly I don't post on other subjects, but when the term "replica"
came up in another thread that I ended up reading that isn't about
replication and I happened to have something useful to contribute, I
did.

I think that any site with a "report as offensive" or "notify
moderator" link in the forums is probably one that is going to be
hypersensitive to anything other than what I think of as Midwestern
politeness. I know all about it -- I grew up on a farm in Central
Illinois -- and it ain't nearly as polite as you might think. I much
prefer New York-style directness to the "ignore the idiot in the
room and be nice" approach that I grew up with, but forums with
those links for reporting to the moderators are probably not going
to tolerate anything but the fake politeness that makes it harder
for the casual reader to distinguish a strong criticism pointing out
substantial flaws from a polite quibble.

I hear that AOL has always had lots of problems with their REPORT AS
SPAM button in their email client, because people report stuff that
isn't spam at all -- they just click it to express displeasure with
the email they are reading. Perhaps that effect occurs on the sites
that have those links.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/