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Are there known issues with Vista and Acc2003



 
 
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  #51  
Old March 2nd, 2007, 10:24 AM posted to comp.databases.ms-access,microsoft.public.access
onedaywhen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 124
Default Are there known issues with Vista and Acc2003


On Mar 1, 11:27 pm, "David W. Fenton"
wrote:
It didn't take a genius to understand that the recommendation by MS
to use ADO with Jet data was a mistake.


ADO with Jet data may have been a mistake but it happened. Sorry!
Wouldn't it be nice if we could rewrite history...

In the late 90s MSFT decided on a major revision of (Access2000)
including a new version of the engine (Jet 4.0) and had a dilema about
whether the native data access technology, DAO, could be enhanced to
support the new engine features because it has 'known issues' with its
architecture e.g. if you don't explicitly teardown objects *and* in
the correct order you will get memory leaks. The SQL Server team, who
had rewritten the Jet engine, had a new data access technology (ADO)
that was generalized enough to support 95% (or better) of Jet. But
MSFT decides to bite the bullet and invest in significantly
restructuring of DAO to make it more robust and to have a flatter
hierarchy (e.g. stand-alone recordsets), support the new Jet features
(e.g. row-level locking) including those not exposed in the Access
user interface (e.g. CHECK constraints), introduce some new properties
(e.g. paging) and methods (e.g. saving recordsets in XML format), plus
introducing events (e.g. asynchronous execution/fetching), including
an 'information schema' to be more in line with the SQL-92 standard,
plus some 'cool' features which were never going to appeal to the old
guard (e.g. hierarchical recordsets). In this version of reality,
would these features have enjoyed better take up? Let's say take up
was the same and eight years on self-styled experts were still unaware
of Jet's CHECK constraints (sorry!). Even then, would the Access
community find it acceptable to be expected to rollback to the Access
97 feature set plus just a handful of the new engine's capabilities? I
think not and, getting back to reality, that's why I say ADO will
remain relevant until DAO functionality has been significantly
enhanced (even if they don't ever fix the architecture).

Many people tried ADO with Jet and liked it. Sorry!

Jamie.

--


  #52  
Old March 2nd, 2007, 09:04 PM posted to comp.databases.ms-access,microsoft.public.access
Larry Linson
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Posts: 3,112
Default Are there known issues with Vista and Acc2003

"lyle fairfield" wrote

C'mon Larry. I think you'd be a natural for call-in
support. You already speak a dialect that almost
no one can understand (Texan), don't you?
That's a requirement, I believe.


Doan chall drawl, tew?

Larry


  #53  
Old March 2nd, 2007, 09:31 PM posted to comp.databases.ms-access,microsoft.public.access
David W. Fenton
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Posts: 3,373
Default Are there known issues with Vista and Acc2003

"Larry Linson" wrote in
news:AbKFh.6749$tR1.5580@trnddc05:

"David W. Fenton" wrote

But there was actually a reasonable justification for
this: macros can be executed safely (because of the
limited set of available commands) and VBA code can't.


Help me understand, David, why the VBA code _that is generated by
the wizards_ "can't be executed safely".


Because there's no way to mark wizard-generated code as a special
kind of code that can't have anything dangerous in it. Macros are
limited to a finite set of commands. VBA is not.

They haven't done away with VBA, they
have just done away with the Wizards generating it -- you can
create your own event procedures using VBA, but, if you are a
developer and going to extend an event procedure, you are going to
have to rewrite what they did with the *&$% macros.


But is there also not a very easy way to convert the macros to code?
I read something about that on one of the Access blogs (probably
Clint Covington's).

Do I think they have an agenda to eliminate VBA?


No, I don't think they do. At least, not until they can replace it
with a managed-code solution. Remember, a huge portion of Access
itself is written in *Access* and delivered as wizards. If VBA were
removed, then those wouldn't work.

Yes, indeed I do, unless
they have a groundswell of support from _enterprise customers_.
VSTO is already there to encourage Word and Excel developers to
move to the "wonderful world of DotNet." No amount of bitchin'
from "the great Access unwashed" is likely to have any effect.


Does VSTO allow you to write managed code for use in Word and Excel?
If not, then I don't understand how it's a replacement for VBA in
Word and Excel.

Frankly, I've been a developer since before Bill Gates was in
Junior High School, when he was borrowing time on somebody's
minicomputer to learn programming, and much before he founded
Microsoft. For me, it's a little late to have an interest in
switching to "user software support" -- that's for the interns
that the company hires from local colleges to support technical
education and scope out promising young new hires.


There will always have to be a scripting language in Access. The
question is: how full-featured will it be and will it still be able
to use API calls.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
  #54  
Old March 4th, 2007, 04:33 AM posted to comp.databases.ms-access,microsoft.public.access
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default Are there known issues with Vista and Acc2003

On Mar 2, 3:31 pm, "David W. Fenton"
wrote:
"Larry Linson" wrote innews:AbKFh.6749$tR1.5580@trnddc05:

"David W. Fenton" wrote


But there was actually a reasonable justification for
this: macros can be executed safely (because of the
limited set of available commands) and VBA code can't.


Help me understand, David, why the VBA code _that is generated by
the wizards_ "can't be executed safely".


Because there's no way to mark wizard-generated code as a special
kind of code that can't have anything dangerous in it. Macros are
limited to a finite set of commands. VBA is not.

They haven't done away with VBA, they
have just done away with the Wizards generating it -- you can
create your own event procedures using VBA, but, if you are a
developer and going to extend an event procedure, you are going to
have to rewrite what they did with the *&$% macros.


But is there also not a very easy way to convert the macros to code?
I read something about that on one of the Access blogs (probably
Clint Covington's).

Do I think they have an agenda to eliminate VBA?


No, I don't think they do. At least, not until they can replace it
with a managed-code solution. Remember, a huge portion of Access
itself is written in *Access* and delivered as wizards. If VBA were
removed, then those wouldn't work.

Yes, indeed I do, unless
they have a groundswell of support from _enterprise customers_.
VSTO is already there to encourage Word and Excel developers to
move to the "wonderful world of DotNet." No amount of bitchin'
from "the great Access unwashed" is likely to have any effect.


Does VSTO allow you to write managed code for use in Word and Excel?
If not, then I don't understand how it's a replacement for VBA in
Word and Excel.

Frankly, I've been a developer since before Bill Gates was in
Junior High School, when he was borrowing time on somebody's
minicomputer to learn programming, and much before he founded
Microsoft. For me, it's a little late to have an interest in
switching to "user software support" -- that's for the interns
that the company hires from local colleges to support technical
education and scope out promising young new hires.


There will always have to be a scripting language in Access. The
question is: how full-featured will it be and will it still be able
to use API calls.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/


I think they do want to eliminate or at least minimize VBA. I also
agree with their reasoning. I still hold to many of the predictions I
made he

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....32d13cf554de71

I said, among other things:

My concern is still that MS may be trying to put VBA into legacy
mode.
If that happens, so that developers are forced into the DotNet world,
there will be a tremendous loss of efficiency for developers unless
new
techniques for customization are developed. I suspect that the new
XML
tools may be meant to lessen the hit of leaving VBA behind. MS may
be
ready to put VBA on a pedestal and place a spotlight on it as the
development tool of the future. Who knows? I don't see it that way
yet. I'm seeing VBA as being a potential sacrifice to DotNet web
integration. I am going to take Larry's advice seriously and try to
be
prepared for any eventuality. Maybe the PDC 05 didn't talk about VBA
much because it wasn't in yet. I'm still leaning toward the
deliberate
de-emphasis theory. Maybe Access will be dumbed down via a VBA
lobotomy in the future. It doesn't make sense for MS to push VBA
anymore. Besides, some XSLT, C#, and SOAP are good for the soul
until
we find out how MS really intends to do RAD.

Comments from PDC05 on WCF:

And we observed that, in most cases, enterprises that are very
successful in taking heterogeneous environments and having them work
in a cohesive way do messaging. And they do something very
important. They do Protocol Integration. That's the way they put
things together. They don't stick everything in one system or inside
of one database. They just have messages flow between one system to
another system. And we committed ourselves at that time, seeing that
observation, to doing WCF. And we also committed ourselves at that
time to doing full blown interop. That's when we sort of flipped the
switch and said, "You know what? We're going to talk to everybody."
....
SOAP enables rich extensibility and security.
....
Application Protocols: POX [Plain Old XML], RSS, ...
Infrastructure Protocols: SOAP, WS-*, ...
....
XML is one of our core architectural commitments.
....
But the key thing is Protocol Integration, XML and then avail yourself
of either Metadata or SOAP as appropriate. But that's where we're
betting as a company, on the fact that protocols are important and
we've got a lot of investment in WS-* and we're going to continue to
do that and we believe that's the center of gravity for us moving
forward.
....
XML, XML, XML, XML.

-- Douglas Purdy, COM 326, PDC05

James A. Fortune


  #55  
Old April 26th, 2007, 10:42 AM posted to microsoft.public.access
Harald Borchard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Are there known issues with Vista and Acc2003

Hi David
i use SendKeys {f4} to open a dropdown box. What is your solution?


"David W. Fenton" wrote:

"Di Cook" wrote in
:

Sendkeys is not supported in Acc2003 programs running under Vista.


No serious programmer ever uses SendKeys.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

  #56  
Old April 26th, 2007, 10:51 AM posted to microsoft.public.access
Allen Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,706
Default Are there known issues with Vista and Acc2003

Use the Dropdown method of the combo, e.g.:

Me.[Combo3].Dropdown

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia
Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html
Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

"Harald Borchard" Harald wrote in
message
...
Hi David
i use SendKeys {f4} to open a dropdown box. What is your solution?


"David W. Fenton" wrote:

"Di Cook" wrote in
:

Sendkeys is not supported in Acc2003 programs running under Vista.


No serious programmer ever uses SendKeys.

--
David W. Fenton
http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/


  #57  
Old April 26th, 2007, 09:00 PM posted to microsoft.public.access
David W. Fenton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,373
Default Are there known issues with Vista and Acc2003

"Allen Browne" wrote in
:

Use the Dropdown method of the combo, e.g.:

Me.[Combo3].Dropdown


If I'm remembering correctly, the combo box has to have the focus at
the time you issue the command (which is not a big deal, as you most
likely wouldn't be issuing it anywhere except the OnEnter event).

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
  #58  
Old April 26th, 2007, 09:13 PM posted to microsoft.public.access
Aaron Kempf
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Posts: 245
Default Are there known issues with Vista and Acc2003

yeah I used F4 all the tmie-- even outside of MS Access-- I just wish that
other programs followed this convention

Of course, I'd use the .dropdown method over sendkeys.. right?


"David W. Fenton" wrote in message
. 1...
"Allen Browne" wrote in
:

Use the Dropdown method of the combo, e.g.:

Me.[Combo3].Dropdown


If I'm remembering correctly, the combo box has to have the focus at
the time you issue the command (which is not a big deal, as you most
likely wouldn't be issuing it anywhere except the OnEnter event).

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/



  #59  
Old April 27th, 2007, 04:48 AM posted to microsoft.public.access
Harald Borchard[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Are there known issues with Vista and Acc2003

Thank you Allen - that was the exact answer I was hoping for - it made my
week!!

"Allen Browne" wrote:

Use the Dropdown method of the combo, e.g.:

Me.[Combo3].Dropdown

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia
Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html
Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

"Harald Borchard" Harald wrote in
message
...
Hi David
i use SendKeys {f4} to open a dropdown box. What is your solution?


"David W. Fenton" wrote:

"Di Cook" wrote in
:

Sendkeys is not supported in Acc2003 programs running under Vista.

No serious programmer ever uses SendKeys.

--
David W. Fenton
http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/



 




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