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Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities



 
 
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  #31  
Old May 6th, 2010, 07:45 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.misc,microsoft.public.excel
Jim Thomlinson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,641
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities

Ok I have tried it. For all of the negative feedback I don't mind it. Could
it be better... Absolutely. But compared to some other on line forums and the
like it is darn good. And heck I even get to have a really cool avatar.

As for points they are par for the course on so many of these sites. I am
with Bob that they are kind of useless. Perhaps I am just bitter since I just
got my gold star in the general questions forum and now they are wiping that
out. Now how is everyone supposed to be impressed.

Things I like... You can edit the post you made. I can not count the number
of times that I had to back track a posting for a typo or just palin silly
mistake. Now I can look smarter by fixing the mistakes...

First pet peave is the use of screen space. There is a lot of wasted space.
I would prefer to seem more content and less junk / blank space.
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson


"Bob Phillips" wrote:

I have tried it, it is a tad slow, and you still have the odd groupings in
Answers.

--

HTH

Bob

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 6 May 2010 12:34:41 +0100, "Bob Phillips"

wrote:

That is a shame Ron, I have enjoyed your contributions. But MS don't care,
there will always be hundreds stepping up even if they aren't up to your
capabilities, and they have shown a blind indifference to those more
capable
users amongst us.

Bob


I will lose, also, by not participating. I did notice something called an
NNTP
Bridge. I haven't tried that access method yet. Maybe it'll be better
than
the Web UI.
--ron



.

  #32  
Old May 6th, 2010, 08:17 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.misc,microsoft.public.excel
Ron Rosenfeld
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,719
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities

On Thu, 6 May 2010 11:45:01 -0700, Jim Thomlinson
wrote:

Ok I have tried it. For all of the negative feedback I don't mind it. Could
it be better... Absolutely. But compared to some other on line forums and the
like it is darn good. And heck I even get to have a really cool avatar.

As for points they are par for the course on so many of these sites. I am
with Bob that they are kind of useless. Perhaps I am just bitter since I just
got my gold star in the general questions forum and now they are wiping that
out. Now how is everyone supposed to be impressed.

Things I like... You can edit the post you made. I can not count the number
of times that I had to back track a posting for a typo or just palin silly
mistake. Now I can look smarter by fixing the mistakes...

First pet peave is the use of screen space. There is a lot of wasted space.
I would prefer to seem more content and less junk / blank space.
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson


Jim,

Are you referring to the NNTP Bridge? Or the Web UI?

Thanks.
--ron
  #33  
Old May 6th, 2010, 11:22 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.misc,microsoft.public.excel
T. Valko
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,759
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities

Are you referring to the NNTP Bridge? Or the Web UI?

Sounds like the web UI.

--
Biff
Microsoft Excel MVP


"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 6 May 2010 11:45:01 -0700, Jim Thomlinson
wrote:

Ok I have tried it. For all of the negative feedback I don't mind it.
Could
it be better... Absolutely. But compared to some other on line forums and
the
like it is darn good. And heck I even get to have a really cool avatar.

As for points they are par for the course on so many of these sites. I am
with Bob that they are kind of useless. Perhaps I am just bitter since I
just
got my gold star in the general questions forum and now they are wiping
that
out. Now how is everyone supposed to be impressed.

Things I like... You can edit the post you made. I can not count the
number
of times that I had to back track a posting for a typo or just palin silly
mistake. Now I can look smarter by fixing the mistakes...

First pet peave is the use of screen space. There is a lot of wasted
space.
I would prefer to seem more content and less junk / blank space.
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson


Jim,

Are you referring to the NNTP Bridge? Or the Web UI?

Thanks.
--ron



  #34  
Old May 7th, 2010, 11:00 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel.misc,microsoft.public.excel
Ron Rosenfeld
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,719
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities

On Thu, 6 May 2010 18:22:26 -0400, "T. Valko" wrote:

Are you referring to the NNTP Bridge? Or the Web UI?


Sounds like the web UI.

--
Biff
Microsoft Excel MVP


Well, I tried the Web UI again and, compared to my Forte Agent newsreader, I
find it cumbersome and more time consuming. I have to do a lot more scrolling
in order to follow a thread -- it seems that it will be a less efficient (more
time-consuming) method of interacting on these forums.
--ron
  #35  
Old May 7th, 2010, 11:26 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel.misc,microsoft.public.excel
Bob Phillips[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 489
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities

Avatar - wow I never joined the community so as to have a cool avatar!

Points - I think it is insidious for two reasons, first you get people
points chasing (just look at Experts Exchange), and secondly I fully expect
MS to use those points as some time in the future. And what did obtaining a
gold start give you?

Edit posts - that is a double edged sword, as often a poster will read your
mistaken post before you correct it and may be confused/distracted by it.
You can easily follow-up with a correction, as you can/do in the NGs, but
if you do edit I feel it would be better to leave the original mistake and
then add the correction, it will avoid any chance of confusion.

Screen space - filling the screen with junk, sound like the current MS
philosophy to me generally (style gallery in the ribbon!).


--

HTH

Bob

"Jim Thomlinson" wrote in message
...
Ok I have tried it. For all of the negative feedback I don't mind it.
Could
it be better... Absolutely. But compared to some other on line forums and
the
like it is darn good. And heck I even get to have a really cool avatar.

As for points they are par for the course on so many of these sites. I am
with Bob that they are kind of useless. Perhaps I am just bitter since I
just
got my gold star in the general questions forum and now they are wiping
that
out. Now how is everyone supposed to be impressed.

Things I like... You can edit the post you made. I can not count the
number
of times that I had to back track a posting for a typo or just palin silly
mistake. Now I can look smarter by fixing the mistakes...

First pet peave is the use of screen space. There is a lot of wasted
space.
I would prefer to seem more content and less junk / blank space.
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson


"Bob Phillips" wrote:

I have tried it, it is a tad slow, and you still have the odd groupings
in
Answers.

--

HTH

Bob

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 6 May 2010 12:34:41 +0100, "Bob Phillips"

wrote:

That is a shame Ron, I have enjoyed your contributions. But MS don't
care,
there will always be hundreds stepping up even if they aren't up to
your
capabilities, and they have shown a blind indifference to those more
capable
users amongst us.

Bob

I will lose, also, by not participating. I did notice something called
an
NNTP
Bridge. I haven't tried that access method yet. Maybe it'll be better
than
the Web UI.
--ron



.



  #36  
Old May 7th, 2010, 03:46 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.misc,microsoft.public.excel
Jim Thomlinson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,641
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities

Yes it is the web UI

I agree that the edit thing could allow users to go back and correct posts
to appear as if they had the correct answer all along. I like it because by
typing is terrible. I have been know to post code with typos and then have to
go back in a new post to correct the typo.

The avatar thing was done tongue in cheek. I am just waiting for someone to
use an 'inappropriate' avatar to see what happens.

MS is not the only company filling their screens with useless junk. We have
software here at work that fills the screen with pretty junk and there is no
way to remove it. Note to software vendors... form should follow function.

Finally the gold star. I don't really care. I don't chase points. I see so
many posters soliciting points and I am with you... why? Perhaps to impress
others but there are individuals around here with medals that don't hold a
candle to others without medals. I like seeing others biographies and
backgrounds which is why you end up seeing my medals. No way to have one
without the other.

My parting word are go to the newsgroup with an open mind. It is certainly
different from the current environment. Some good and some bad. Try not to
make up your mind before you have given it a fair chance. XL2007 also takes a
lot to get used to. It is slow and cumbersome at first. You really need to
give it a chance.
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson


"Bob Phillips" wrote:

Avatar - wow I never joined the community so as to have a cool avatar!

Points - I think it is insidious for two reasons, first you get people
points chasing (just look at Experts Exchange), and secondly I fully expect
MS to use those points as some time in the future. And what did obtaining a
gold start give you?

Edit posts - that is a double edged sword, as often a poster will read your
mistaken post before you correct it and may be confused/distracted by it.
You can easily follow-up with a correction, as you can/do in the NGs, but
if you do edit I feel it would be better to leave the original mistake and
then add the correction, it will avoid any chance of confusion.

Screen space - filling the screen with junk, sound like the current MS
philosophy to me generally (style gallery in the ribbon!).


--

HTH

Bob

"Jim Thomlinson" wrote in message
...
Ok I have tried it. For all of the negative feedback I don't mind it.
Could
it be better... Absolutely. But compared to some other on line forums and
the
like it is darn good. And heck I even get to have a really cool avatar.

As for points they are par for the course on so many of these sites. I am
with Bob that they are kind of useless. Perhaps I am just bitter since I
just
got my gold star in the general questions forum and now they are wiping
that
out. Now how is everyone supposed to be impressed.

Things I like... You can edit the post you made. I can not count the
number
of times that I had to back track a posting for a typo or just palin silly
mistake. Now I can look smarter by fixing the mistakes...

First pet peave is the use of screen space. There is a lot of wasted
space.
I would prefer to seem more content and less junk / blank space.
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson


"Bob Phillips" wrote:

I have tried it, it is a tad slow, and you still have the odd groupings
in
Answers.

--

HTH

Bob

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 6 May 2010 12:34:41 +0100, "Bob Phillips"

wrote:

That is a shame Ron, I have enjoyed your contributions. But MS don't
care,
there will always be hundreds stepping up even if they aren't up to
your
capabilities, and they have shown a blind indifference to those more
capable
users amongst us.

Bob

I will lose, also, by not participating. I did notice something called
an
NNTP
Bridge. I haven't tried that access method yet. Maybe it'll be better
than
the Web UI.
--ron


.



.

  #37  
Old May 8th, 2010, 06:12 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.misc,microsoft.public.excel.programming,microsoft.public.excel.worksheet.functions,microsoft.public.excel
CLR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 323
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities

So what should an OP do if they want to post a question about
Programming?......just post it anywhere and let MS sort it out? as
in......

"Select the Best Forum
Select the forum that most closely matches your topic. (Don't worry, if it's
not the right one we'll move it for you.) "



Does this mean MS will read EVERY post and place it where they think it
should be, rather than where the OP posted it and will go to see if there
are any replies. And don't forget, the "Notify me" feature has not worked
for some time.

I started using Excel several years ago, and have progressed to be the GOTO
guy for Excel problems at the company I work for (over 1000 computers). I
have responded to thousands of posts in the Excel Newsgroups, earned a
Master MOUS certification on the side, and learned virtually everything I
know by coming to the various Newsgroups, especially the Excel Programming
Group. I have taught many others how to be better in excel and have
written many many Application Programs in Excel for my Users. Virtually all
of that use of Excel, by those dozens of folks, being a direct decendant of
MY time on the Newsgroups. So not only did the Newsgroups help ME learn,
that knowledge also rolled down hill to help many others. I am sad to see
the loss of my source of learning, and my opportunity to assist others fade
away.

I agree with Jim Thomlinson who says......

I like the way the news group works. It is simple and intuitive. The only
issues I have so far is that I don't want to lose the body of work that
exists in these forums. I often find myself searching for posts that I
read
long ago



Vaya con Dios,
Chuck, CABGx3







"Jim Thomlinson" wrote in message
...
To expand on what I said...

I like the way the news group works. It is simple and intuitive. The only
issues I have so far is that I don't want to lose the body of work that
exists in these forums. I often find myself searching for posts that I
read
long ago. Secondly I am not sure that I like the new categories for XL.
Noteably the programming forum is gone. That being said the current
categories are not perfect either.
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson


"Jim Thomlinson" wrote:

I think I will try the new forum before I express an opinion on whether
it is
better or worse. Just my 2 cents.
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson


"Joe User" wrote:

wrote:
Starting in early summer 2010, Microsoft will begin
progressively closing down the Microsoft public newsgroups
to enrich conversations in the rapidly-growing forum
platform.

Translation: Microsoft will force people to use the web interface that
they
have maintained so poorly for years and that is the least reliable and
least
feature-rich interface for these "forums" that I am aware of.

Confirmation of that fact comes from the official Microsoft Newsgroup
website http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx.
In
the Q&A the

"Q: Where can I access these forums from?
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/forums/default.mspx"

The only potentially good thing to come out of this....

"Q: What should newsgroup users prepare for that will be different?
[....]
Additionally, Microsoft newsgroups are not moderated, while the forums
will
be."

But the operative word is "potentially".

First, Microsoft has demonstrated complete ineptitude in managing
"forums".
Their tools do not work. MS does not respond to problem reports. In
fact,
they do not even provide an effective way to report problems with
"forums".

Second, moderating a group is either highly labor-intensive or useless
(just
a pass-thru).

But if the moderation is real (and effective), that will mean that
postings
will incur delays.

Moreover, I have never heard of moderation done on a scale this large.
Consider the traffic in the m.p.excel newsgroups alone. Well, perhaps
Microsoft will depend on MVPs to be moderators.

Oh well....


----- original message -----

wrote in message
...
Date 5/4/2010
Starting in early summer 2010, Microsoft will begin progressively
closing
down the Microsoft public newsgroups to enrich conversations in the
rapidly-growing forum platform. This decision is in response to
worldwide
market trends and evolving customer needs.

Microsoft continues to invest in forums to reduce customer effort,
consolidate community venues and make it easier for active
contributors to
retain their influence. Forums provide a healthy community
environment
with less spam and make answers easier to find by customers and
search
engines. Additionally, forums offer a better user and off-topic
management platform that will improve customer satisfaction by
facilitating discussions in a clean space.

We understand that some newsgroups are still active, and important to
the
community. In the coming days and weeks, we will be rolling out
tools and
resources to minimize disruption to the community discussions.

We are working diligently on providing additional resources and
information in local languages later this week. In the meantime,
please
refer to the official Microsoft Newsgroup website
http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx
concerning
this issue. The Microsoft Newsgroup website will be made available
in
additional languages in the next few days.


.



  #38  
Old May 8th, 2010, 07:43 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.misc,microsoft.public.excel.programming,microsoft.public.excel.worksheet.functions,microsoft.public.excel
Jim Cone[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 434
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities


My opinion is that it is the precursor to abandoning VBA.
We can look forward to the release of VSTO.Not ("VerySlowToOperate.Not") to handle all Office programming needs.
It will require the $499.00 Office upgrade and a 64 core 16 GHZ processor and Net.Framework 2.234 thru 19.432 installed
on your machine. (The 1500 page manual sold separately).
The upside is that it will be almost as fast as VBA.
Happy Trails.
--
Jim Cone
Portland, Oregon USA



"CLR"
wrote in message ...
So what should an OP do if they want to post a question about
Programming?......just post it anywhere and let MS sort it out? as
in......

"Select the Best Forum
Select the forum that most closely matches your topic. (Don't worry, if it's
not the right one we'll move it for you.) "



Does this mean MS will read EVERY post and place it where they think it
should be, rather than where the OP posted it and will go to see if there
are any replies. And don't forget, the "Notify me" feature has not worked
for some time.

I started using Excel several years ago, and have progressed to be the GOTO
guy for Excel problems at the company I work for (over 1000 computers). I
have responded to thousands of posts in the Excel Newsgroups, earned a
Master MOUS certification on the side, and learned virtually everything I
know by coming to the various Newsgroups, especially the Excel Programming
Group. I have taught many others how to be better in excel and have
written many many Application Programs in Excel for my Users. Virtually all
of that use of Excel, by those dozens of folks, being a direct decendant of
MY time on the Newsgroups. So not only did the Newsgroups help ME learn,
that knowledge also rolled down hill to help many others. I am sad to see
the loss of my source of learning, and my opportunity to assist others fade
away.

I agree with Jim Thomlinson who says......

I like the way the news group works. It is simple and intuitive. The only
issues I have so far is that I don't want to lose the body of work that
exists in these forums. I often find myself searching for posts that I
read
long ago



Vaya con Dios,
Chuck, CABGx3







"Jim Thomlinson" wrote in message
...
To expand on what I said...

I like the way the news group works. It is simple and intuitive. The only
issues I have so far is that I don't want to lose the body of work that
exists in these forums. I often find myself searching for posts that I
read
long ago. Secondly I am not sure that I like the new categories for XL.
Noteably the programming forum is gone. That being said the current
categories are not perfect either.
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson


"Jim Thomlinson" wrote:

I think I will try the new forum before I express an opinion on whether
it is
better or worse. Just my 2 cents.
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson


"Joe User" wrote:

wrote:
Starting in early summer 2010, Microsoft will begin
progressively closing down the Microsoft public newsgroups
to enrich conversations in the rapidly-growing forum
platform.

Translation: Microsoft will force people to use the web interface that
they
have maintained so poorly for years and that is the least reliable and
least
feature-rich interface for these "forums" that I am aware of.

Confirmation of that fact comes from the official Microsoft Newsgroup
website http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx.
In
the Q&A the

"Q: Where can I access these forums from?
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/forums/default.mspx"

The only potentially good thing to come out of this....

"Q: What should newsgroup users prepare for that will be different?
[....]
Additionally, Microsoft newsgroups are not moderated, while the forums
will
be."

But the operative word is "potentially".

First, Microsoft has demonstrated complete ineptitude in managing
"forums".
Their tools do not work. MS does not respond to problem reports. In
fact,
they do not even provide an effective way to report problems with
"forums".

Second, moderating a group is either highly labor-intensive or useless
(just
a pass-thru).

But if the moderation is real (and effective), that will mean that
postings
will incur delays.

Moreover, I have never heard of moderation done on a scale this large.
Consider the traffic in the m.p.excel newsgroups alone. Well, perhaps
Microsoft will depend on MVPs to be moderators.

Oh well....


----- original message -----

wrote in message
...
Date 5/4/2010
Starting in early summer 2010, Microsoft will begin progressively
closing
down the Microsoft public newsgroups to enrich conversations in the
rapidly-growing forum platform. This decision is in response to
worldwide
market trends and evolving customer needs.

Microsoft continues to invest in forums to reduce customer effort,
consolidate community venues and make it easier for active
contributors to
retain their influence. Forums provide a healthy community
environment
with less spam and make answers easier to find by customers and
search
engines. Additionally, forums offer a better user and off-topic
management platform that will improve customer satisfaction by
facilitating discussions in a clean space.

We understand that some newsgroups are still active, and important to
the
community. In the coming days and weeks, we will be rolling out
tools and
resources to minimize disruption to the community discussions.

We are working diligently on providing additional resources and
information in local languages later this week. In the meantime,
please
refer to the official Microsoft Newsgroup website
http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx
concerning
this issue. The Microsoft Newsgroup website will be made available
in
additional languages in the next few days.


.



  #39  
Old May 9th, 2010, 01:26 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc
Stan Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 536
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities

Thu, 06 May 2010 06:44:24 -0400 from Ron Rosenfeld
:
I have better things to do with my time, so when these newsgroups stop
functioning, I will cut down my participation significantly.


Why do you think these newsgroups will stop functioning? It's in the
nature of Usenet that a newsgroup, once created, has a life of its
own. Sure, Microsoft won't be driving new traffic here, but that
doesn't stop the rest of us from continuing to read and post.


--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...
  #40  
Old May 10th, 2010, 12:16 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc
Bruce Sinclair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 154
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities

In article , "T. Valko" wrote:
I pretty much agree with everything you said.

The best feature of NNTP ngs from my perspective is that it's very easy to
watch a thread for possible follow-ups.

I also like the speed and ease of access.


... is it possible that this is an attempt by MS to kill off a 'text only'
application that doesn't fit with their apparent 'everything looks better in
html' approach ? An interesting possibility if so - and still wrong.







 




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