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#11
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You just don't get it. I have only criticized you when your entire post is
an offer to provide contract/paid services. In this case, you did this in a post not even 90 minutes old. I have never objected to your (or anyone else's) signature line (at least not that I recall). I have even defended you in threads where your only suggestion of selling services was your signature. I don't recall Ken's reply but I expect you are taking it out of context. I could be wrong but I doubt it. Ken certainly did not reply as you did fishing for work on a brand new thread. I would not have criticized you if this thread was about 10 replies long and it was clear that the OP needed to find a contractor. I rarely if ever see replies like some of yours that jump on a brand new thread with an offer to provide consulting services. It may happen more than I have noticed but you must admit that you blatantly advertise or ask for business more than any other poster by a large margin. I don't read all the Access related NGs but if score was kept in the ones I frequent, you wouldn't have any competition. Answer one question: Do you not think that people come to these News Groups looking for free advice/support? -- Duane Hookom MS Access MVP "PC Datasheet" wrote in message hlink.net... Duane, I will preface what I have to say with, I have been reading the newsgroups for many years and all that time you have stood out as a prominent figure. I can say as a fact that everything that you have always had to say was said in a very professional way. From that I have developed great respect for you and continue to feel that respect. What I have to say is meant to be in the spirit of that respect and is no way intended to put you down. None of what you quoted here comes from the Rulse Of Conduct and therefore does not apply. The Rules Of Conduct are found at http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/ga...RulesofConduct and the pertinent part states: "We ask that you refrain from posting advertisements or solicitations that do not pertain directly to the intended use and purpose of the newsgroup or chat." Nonetheless, here is my response --- As far as advertising, please explain in concrete terms how "Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help with this. My fees are very reasonable" is advertising. My sig is advertising but again it pertains to the purpose of the newsgroups to provide Access users a resource for help with Access related problems. Duane Hookom, MS Access is the same type of advertising. So is the following: o "MVPDoug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP" o "See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs." o "John Viescas, author "Building Microsoft Access Applications" (Coming Soon!) "Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out" "Running Microsoft Access 2000" "SQL Queries for Mere Mortals" o David Lloyd MCSD .NET http://LemingtonConsulting.com The above are a very small example of what you see daily on the newsgroups. In terms of Contact me if you would like help, I am not the only one to post this type of post. Every once in a while you will see offers from others besides myself. Consider the following: genenky - You can contact me via www.cadellsoftware.org and we can discuss what you're seeking to do.- Ken Snell MS ACCESS MVP No one posts derogatory responses to these others. Is it because Ken is an MVP? In terms of advertising, consider the following in the sig line of an infrequent responder: "A Christian Response http://www.pastornet.net.au/response" Check out the web address. It has absolutely nothing to do with Access. You see other adverts like this and adverts that are directly in the body of the post. None of the above are ever taken to task for advertising that obviously does not pertain to providing Access users a resource for help with Access problems. In conclusion, I want to ask that you drop out of the crowd of the likes of Arno R, Keith Wilby, Randy Harris and others and defend me from their malicious attacks. If you are not willing to do this then I ask that you keep silent rather than trying to support them. Thanks, Duane, Steve "Duane Hookom" wrote in message ... I did a quick search of google: "NewsGroup" etiquette advertise First Hit ========================= http://www.netscape.co.uk/help/faqs/...oupmanners.htm Don't Spam Spamming is e-mailing or posting unsolicited advertising. Never post advertising on a Newsgroup unless it is specifically created to accept adverts. Second Hit ========================= http://groups.google.com/googlegroup...ing_style.html Please do not use Usenet as an advertising medium. Advertisements on Usenet are rarely appreciated. In general, the louder or more inappropriate the ad is, the more antagonism it stirs up. Just think how annoying it is to you to have your evening meal interrupted by a telemarketer. The feeling is the same when someone posts inappropriate commercial messages in a newsgroup. If in doubt, don't do it. Third Hit ========================== http://www.gotfusion.com/tutsTD/groupetiquette.cfm DO NOT Advertise: It doesn't work, it gets people really really mad, it gets me really really mad, and no matter what you say it will not be taken well. Everyone HATES SPAM. This is one of the things that will guarantee that I bring out my "big hammer" and remove your thread. Do not answer posts of this nature as it just adds to the number of posts I have to remove. If you continue to advertise after being warned you may find yourself blacklisted from posting anything on these newsgroups. Fourth Hit ========================== http://www.mommyshelperonline.com/email-etiquette.html 6.) Use 4-6 lines for your signature line, this is an opportunity to highlight your business or company information, but don't be ostentatious.. -- Duane Hookom MS Access MVP "PC Datasheet" wrote in message link.net... Doug, I have always respected your approach and continue to feel that way. My intent here is not meant to put you down in any way. I just am asking you on a professional level where specifically does it say that offers of help on an Access related problem for a fee are prohibited? Steve "Douglas J. Steele" wrote in message ... These newsgroups are not intended for you to solicit commercial business. You know that: you've been told MANY times by MANY different people, yet you still persist. Are you really that egocentric that you figure you can ignore everyone? -- Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP http://I.Am/DougSteele (no e-mails, please!) "PC Datasheet" wrote in message ink.net... Why don't you explain it to me in concrete terms, Doug. "Douglas J. Steele" wrote in message ... You just don't get it, do you Steve? -- Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP http://I.Am/DougSteele (no e-mails, please!) "PC Datasheet" wrote in message link.net... Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help with this. My fees are very reasonable. -- PC Datasheet Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications www.pcdatasheet.com |
#12
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Steve,
You are a complete idiot! I just searched for the thread you quoted from Ken Snell. The thread subject was "i need a pro". How can you even suggest that what you do compares with Ken's reply? Do you have no common sense? Can't you tell the difference between a OP who comes looking for free advice and someone who comes expecting to pay? The full text of the message Ken replied to: "hi all, is there a site that has a list of pros that will actually set up microsoft access for me. i need it set up for my small business and it is far too complicated for me. i live in the northern kentucky area about 50 miles south of cincinnati ohio. thanks for any replies an have a nice holiday weekend" In another reply in the same thread, the OP stated: "..and then they could have an idea as to what they should charge me. " Here's a little test. Rate the following on the appropriateness offering to provide paid contracting services: Subject 1: i need a pro Subject 2: Multidimensional Forms/Tables -- Duane Hookom MS Access MVP "PC Datasheet" wrote in message hlink.net... Duane, I will preface what I have to say with, I have been reading the newsgroups for many years and all that time you have stood out as a prominent figure. I can say as a fact that everything that you have always had to say was said in a very professional way. From that I have developed great respect for you and continue to feel that respect. What I have to say is meant to be in the spirit of that respect and is no way intended to put you down. None of what you quoted here comes from the Rulse Of Conduct and therefore does not apply. The Rules Of Conduct are found at http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/ga...RulesofConduct and the pertinent part states: "We ask that you refrain from posting advertisements or solicitations that do not pertain directly to the intended use and purpose of the newsgroup or chat." Nonetheless, here is my response --- As far as advertising, please explain in concrete terms how "Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help with this. My fees are very reasonable" is advertising. My sig is advertising but again it pertains to the purpose of the newsgroups to provide Access users a resource for help with Access related problems. Duane Hookom, MS Access is the same type of advertising. So is the following: o "MVPDoug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP" o "See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs." o "John Viescas, author "Building Microsoft Access Applications" (Coming Soon!) "Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out" "Running Microsoft Access 2000" "SQL Queries for Mere Mortals" o David Lloyd MCSD .NET http://LemingtonConsulting.com The above are a very small example of what you see daily on the newsgroups. In terms of Contact me if you would like help, I am not the only one to post this type of post. Every once in a while you will see offers from others besides myself. Consider the following: genenky - You can contact me via www.cadellsoftware.org and we can discuss what you're seeking to do.- Ken Snell MS ACCESS MVP No one posts derogatory responses to these others. Is it because Ken is an MVP? In terms of advertising, consider the following in the sig line of an infrequent responder: "A Christian Response http://www.pastornet.net.au/response" Check out the web address. It has absolutely nothing to do with Access. You see other adverts like this and adverts that are directly in the body of the post. None of the above are ever taken to task for advertising that obviously does not pertain to providing Access users a resource for help with Access problems. In conclusion, I want to ask that you drop out of the crowd of the likes of Arno R, Keith Wilby, Randy Harris and others and defend me from their malicious attacks. If you are not willing to do this then I ask that you keep silent rather than trying to support them. Thanks, Duane, Steve "Duane Hookom" wrote in message ... I did a quick search of google: "NewsGroup" etiquette advertise First Hit ========================= http://www.netscape.co.uk/help/faqs/...oupmanners.htm Don't Spam Spamming is e-mailing or posting unsolicited advertising. Never post advertising on a Newsgroup unless it is specifically created to accept adverts. Second Hit ========================= http://groups.google.com/googlegroup...ing_style.html Please do not use Usenet as an advertising medium. Advertisements on Usenet are rarely appreciated. In general, the louder or more inappropriate the ad is, the more antagonism it stirs up. Just think how annoying it is to you to have your evening meal interrupted by a telemarketer. The feeling is the same when someone posts inappropriate commercial messages in a newsgroup. If in doubt, don't do it. Third Hit ========================== http://www.gotfusion.com/tutsTD/groupetiquette.cfm DO NOT Advertise: It doesn't work, it gets people really really mad, it gets me really really mad, and no matter what you say it will not be taken well. Everyone HATES SPAM. This is one of the things that will guarantee that I bring out my "big hammer" and remove your thread. Do not answer posts of this nature as it just adds to the number of posts I have to remove. If you continue to advertise after being warned you may find yourself blacklisted from posting anything on these newsgroups. Fourth Hit ========================== http://www.mommyshelperonline.com/email-etiquette.html 6.) Use 4-6 lines for your signature line, this is an opportunity to highlight your business or company information, but don't be ostentatious.. -- Duane Hookom MS Access MVP "PC Datasheet" wrote in message link.net... Doug, I have always respected your approach and continue to feel that way. My intent here is not meant to put you down in any way. I just am asking you on a professional level where specifically does it say that offers of help on an Access related problem for a fee are prohibited? Steve "Douglas J. Steele" wrote in message ... These newsgroups are not intended for you to solicit commercial business. You know that: you've been told MANY times by MANY different people, yet you still persist. Are you really that egocentric that you figure you can ignore everyone? -- Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP http://I.Am/DougSteele (no e-mails, please!) "PC Datasheet" wrote in message ink.net... Why don't you explain it to me in concrete terms, Doug. "Douglas J. Steele" wrote in message ... You just don't get it, do you Steve? -- Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP http://I.Am/DougSteele (no e-mails, please!) "PC Datasheet" wrote in message link.net... Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help with this. My fees are very reasonable. -- PC Datasheet Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications www.pcdatasheet.com |
#13
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Steve,
I apologize for the "idiot" remark. It wasn't appropriate in any public forum. I should have limited myself to criticizing your posts and not your person. Your posts in this thread incensed me like none others ever have in the past. -- Duane Hookom MS Access MVP "Duane Hookom" wrote in message ... Steve, You are a complete idiot! I just searched for the thread you quoted from Ken Snell. The thread subject was "i need a pro". How can you even suggest that what you do compares with Ken's reply? Do you have no common sense? Can't you tell the difference between a OP who comes looking for free advice and someone who comes expecting to pay? The full text of the message Ken replied to: "hi all, is there a site that has a list of pros that will actually set up microsoft access for me. i need it set up for my small business and it is far too complicated for me. i live in the northern kentucky area about 50 miles south of cincinnati ohio. thanks for any replies an have a nice holiday weekend" In another reply in the same thread, the OP stated: "..and then they could have an idea as to what they should charge me. " Here's a little test. Rate the following on the appropriateness offering to provide paid contracting services: Subject 1: i need a pro Subject 2: Multidimensional Forms/Tables -- Duane Hookom MS Access MVP "PC Datasheet" wrote in message hlink.net... Duane, I will preface what I have to say with, I have been reading the newsgroups for many years and all that time you have stood out as a prominent figure. I can say as a fact that everything that you have always had to say was said in a very professional way. From that I have developed great respect for you and continue to feel that respect. What I have to say is meant to be in the spirit of that respect and is no way intended to put you down. None of what you quoted here comes from the Rulse Of Conduct and therefore does not apply. The Rules Of Conduct are found at http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/ga...RulesofConduct and the pertinent part states: "We ask that you refrain from posting advertisements or solicitations that do not pertain directly to the intended use and purpose of the newsgroup or chat." Nonetheless, here is my response --- As far as advertising, please explain in concrete terms how "Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help with this. My fees are very reasonable" is advertising. My sig is advertising but again it pertains to the purpose of the newsgroups to provide Access users a resource for help with Access related problems. Duane Hookom, MS Access is the same type of advertising. So is the following: o "MVPDoug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP" o "See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs." o "John Viescas, author "Building Microsoft Access Applications" (Coming Soon!) "Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out" "Running Microsoft Access 2000" "SQL Queries for Mere Mortals" o David Lloyd MCSD .NET http://LemingtonConsulting.com The above are a very small example of what you see daily on the newsgroups. In terms of Contact me if you would like help, I am not the only one to post this type of post. Every once in a while you will see offers from others besides myself. Consider the following: genenky - You can contact me via www.cadellsoftware.org and we can discuss what you're seeking to do.- Ken Snell MS ACCESS MVP No one posts derogatory responses to these others. Is it because Ken is an MVP? In terms of advertising, consider the following in the sig line of an infrequent responder: "A Christian Response http://www.pastornet.net.au/response" Check out the web address. It has absolutely nothing to do with Access. You see other adverts like this and adverts that are directly in the body of the post. None of the above are ever taken to task for advertising that obviously does not pertain to providing Access users a resource for help with Access problems. In conclusion, I want to ask that you drop out of the crowd of the likes of Arno R, Keith Wilby, Randy Harris and others and defend me from their malicious attacks. If you are not willing to do this then I ask that you keep silent rather than trying to support them. Thanks, Duane, Steve "Duane Hookom" wrote in message ... I did a quick search of google: "NewsGroup" etiquette advertise First Hit ========================= http://www.netscape.co.uk/help/faqs/...oupmanners.htm Don't Spam Spamming is e-mailing or posting unsolicited advertising. Never post advertising on a Newsgroup unless it is specifically created to accept adverts. Second Hit ========================= http://groups.google.com/googlegroup...ing_style.html Please do not use Usenet as an advertising medium. Advertisements on Usenet are rarely appreciated. In general, the louder or more inappropriate the ad is, the more antagonism it stirs up. Just think how annoying it is to you to have your evening meal interrupted by a telemarketer. The feeling is the same when someone posts inappropriate commercial messages in a newsgroup. If in doubt, don't do it. Third Hit ========================== http://www.gotfusion.com/tutsTD/groupetiquette.cfm DO NOT Advertise: It doesn't work, it gets people really really mad, it gets me really really mad, and no matter what you say it will not be taken well. Everyone HATES SPAM. This is one of the things that will guarantee that I bring out my "big hammer" and remove your thread. Do not answer posts of this nature as it just adds to the number of posts I have to remove. If you continue to advertise after being warned you may find yourself blacklisted from posting anything on these newsgroups. Fourth Hit ========================== http://www.mommyshelperonline.com/email-etiquette.html 6.) Use 4-6 lines for your signature line, this is an opportunity to highlight your business or company information, but don't be ostentatious.. -- Duane Hookom MS Access MVP "PC Datasheet" wrote in message link.net... Doug, I have always respected your approach and continue to feel that way. My intent here is not meant to put you down in any way. I just am asking you on a professional level where specifically does it say that offers of help on an Access related problem for a fee are prohibited? Steve "Douglas J. Steele" wrote in message ... These newsgroups are not intended for you to solicit commercial business. You know that: you've been told MANY times by MANY different people, yet you still persist. Are you really that egocentric that you figure you can ignore everyone? -- Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP http://I.Am/DougSteele (no e-mails, please!) "PC Datasheet" wrote in message ink.net... Why don't you explain it to me in concrete terms, Doug. "Douglas J. Steele" wrote in message ... You just don't get it, do you Steve? -- Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP http://I.Am/DougSteele (no e-mails, please!) "PC Datasheet" wrote in message link.net... Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help with this. My fees are very reasonable. -- PC Datasheet Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications www.pcdatasheet.com |
#14
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"PC Datasheet" wrote in message link.net... My sig is advertising but again it pertains to the purpose of the newsgroups to provide Access users a resource for help with Access related problems. Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP is the same type of advertising. I fail to see how listing my name is advertising. I am employed full-time, and do not accept external contracts. In conclusion, I want to ask that you drop out of the crowd of the likes of Arno R, Keith Wilby, Randy Harris and others and defend me from their malicious attacks. If you are not willing to do this then I ask that you keep silent rather than makeing statements like are in this post. Duly noted (and ignored) Steve: You know very well that a large number of participants in this newsgroup are opposed to your crass commercial activities. If you feel they're justified, we can't stop you. However, we can continue to express our displeasure. Hopefully potential clients will realize that your methods aren't very professional (as one poster in microsoft.public.access.tablesdbdesign recently did) -- Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP http://I.Am/DougSteele (no e-mails, please!) |
#15
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a large number of participants in this newsgroup are opposed to your crass
commercial activities What concrete evidence do you have to support this statement? "Douglas J. Steele" wrote in message ... "PC Datasheet" wrote in message link.net... My sig is advertising but again it pertains to the purpose of the newsgroups to provide Access users a resource for help with Access related problems. Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP is the same type of advertising. I fail to see how listing my name is advertising. I am employed full-time, and do not accept external contracts. In conclusion, I want to ask that you drop out of the crowd of the likes of Arno R, Keith Wilby, Randy Harris and others and defend me from their malicious attacks. If you are not willing to do this then I ask that you keep silent rather than makeing statements like are in this post. Duly noted (and ignored) Steve: You know very well that a large number of participants in this newsgroup are opposed to your crass commercial activities. If you feel they're justified, we can't stop you. However, we can continue to express our displeasure. Hopefully potential clients will realize that your methods aren't very professional (as one poster in microsoft.public.access.tablesdbdesign recently did) -- Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP http://I.Am/DougSteele (no e-mails, please!) |
#16
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Answer one question:
Do you not think that people come to these News Groups looking for free advice/support? People come to the newsgroups looking for a solution to an Access related problem. Some times they get no response; therefore no solution. Sometimes they get a long winded response that provides no solution. Some times they get a response that is beyond their ability and therefore are unable to implement the solution. Some times the response is so poorly written that it is incomprehensible. Some times the response is written so illogically that it is too hard for the average user to understand. Some times the solution being sought is beyond what can reasonably be expected to be given for free. Some times they get a response offering fee-based help. The poster has the option to contact me if he so chooses. Many do because the need for the solution justifies paying for a solution! My fees are very reasonable and these posters are happy to receive my fee-based help. So where else do you think these posters could go to receive a quick solution for a reasonable fee? I would not have criticized you if this thread was about 10 replies long and it was clear that the OP needed to find a contractor. So, you are agreeing that it is OK to offer fee-based services under certain conditions. Well that is just what I am doing! To paraphrase your words a little, when I think that it is clear that the poster is not going to be able to solve his problem from the newsgroup, then I consider offering him the option of fee-based help. And not every response I make is one offering fee-based help. On at least a ten to one ratio, I provide free advice/support over offering fee-based help. In a vast majority of me free responses, I also take the time to provide a very good quality response. I try to provide all the details the poster needs. Since some time ago when an MVP suggested that I clearly say that my offer for help is fee-based, I have tried to follow that suggestion. Answer three questions --- 1. You are an Access expert and could answer any question posted. Why don't you answer the posts that receive no response? 2. Why don't you respond to the posts that you know the poster is not going to solve his problem from the responses he received? 3. What if any problems do you see being caused by my offering fee-based help to limited posters in the newsgroups? Steve PC Datasheet "Duane Hookom" wrote in message ... You just don't get it. I have only criticized you when your entire post is an offer to provide contract/paid services. In this case, you did this in a post not even 90 minutes old. I have never objected to your (or anyone else's) signature line (at least not that I recall). I have even defended you in threads where your only suggestion of selling services was your signature. I don't recall Ken's reply but I expect you are taking it out of context. I could be wrong but I doubt it. Ken certainly did not reply as you did fishing for work on a brand new thread. I would not have criticized you if this thread was about 10 replies long and it was clear that the OP needed to find a contractor. I rarely if ever see replies like some of yours that jump on a brand new thread with an offer to provide consulting services. It may happen more than I have noticed but you must admit that you blatantly advertise or ask for business more than any other poster by a large margin. I don't read all the Access related NGs but if score was kept in the ones I frequent, you wouldn't have any competition. Answer one question: Do you not think that people come to these News Groups looking for free advice/support? -- Duane Hookom MS Access MVP "PC Datasheet" wrote in message hlink.net... Duane, I will preface what I have to say with, I have been reading the newsgroups for many years and all that time you have stood out as a prominent figure. I can say as a fact that everything that you have always had to say was said in a very professional way. From that I have developed great respect for you and continue to feel that respect. What I have to say is meant to be in the spirit of that respect and is no way intended to put you down. None of what you quoted here comes from the Rulse Of Conduct and therefore does not apply. The Rules Of Conduct are found at http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/ga...RulesofConduct and the pertinent part states: "We ask that you refrain from posting advertisements or solicitations that do not pertain directly to the intended use and purpose of the newsgroup or chat." Nonetheless, here is my response --- As far as advertising, please explain in concrete terms how "Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help with this. My fees are very reasonable" is advertising. My sig is advertising but again it pertains to the purpose of the newsgroups to provide Access users a resource for help with Access related problems. Duane Hookom, MS Access is the same type of advertising. So is the following: o "MVPDoug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP" o "See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs." o "John Viescas, author "Building Microsoft Access Applications" (Coming Soon!) "Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out" "Running Microsoft Access 2000" "SQL Queries for Mere Mortals" o David Lloyd MCSD .NET http://LemingtonConsulting.com The above are a very small example of what you see daily on the newsgroups. In terms of Contact me if you would like help, I am not the only one to post this type of post. Every once in a while you will see offers from others besides myself. Consider the following: genenky - You can contact me via www.cadellsoftware.org and we can discuss what you're seeking to do.- Ken Snell MS ACCESS MVP No one posts derogatory responses to these others. Is it because Ken is an MVP? In terms of advertising, consider the following in the sig line of an infrequent responder: "A Christian Response http://www.pastornet.net.au/response" Check out the web address. It has absolutely nothing to do with Access. You see other adverts like this and adverts that are directly in the body of the post. None of the above are ever taken to task for advertising that obviously does not pertain to providing Access users a resource for help with Access problems. In conclusion, I want to ask that you drop out of the crowd of the likes of Arno R, Keith Wilby, Randy Harris and others and defend me from their malicious attacks. If you are not willing to do this then I ask that you keep silent rather than trying to support them. Thanks, Duane, Steve "Duane Hookom" wrote in message ... I did a quick search of google: "NewsGroup" etiquette advertise First Hit ========================= http://www.netscape.co.uk/help/faqs/...oupmanners.htm Don't Spam Spamming is e-mailing or posting unsolicited advertising. Never post advertising on a Newsgroup unless it is specifically created to accept adverts. Second Hit ========================= http://groups.google.com/googlegroup...ing_style.html Please do not use Usenet as an advertising medium. Advertisements on Usenet are rarely appreciated. In general, the louder or more inappropriate the ad is, the more antagonism it stirs up. Just think how annoying it is to you to have your evening meal interrupted by a telemarketer. The feeling is the same when someone posts inappropriate commercial messages in a newsgroup. If in doubt, don't do it. Third Hit ========================== http://www.gotfusion.com/tutsTD/groupetiquette.cfm DO NOT Advertise: It doesn't work, it gets people really really mad, it gets me really really mad, and no matter what you say it will not be taken well. Everyone HATES SPAM. This is one of the things that will guarantee that I bring out my "big hammer" and remove your thread. Do not answer posts of this nature as it just adds to the number of posts I have to remove. If you continue to advertise after being warned you may find yourself blacklisted from posting anything on these newsgroups. Fourth Hit ========================== http://www.mommyshelperonline.com/email-etiquette.html 6.) Use 4-6 lines for your signature line, this is an opportunity to highlight your business or company information, but don't be ostentatious.. -- Duane Hookom MS Access MVP "PC Datasheet" wrote in message link.net... Doug, I have always respected your approach and continue to feel that way. My intent here is not meant to put you down in any way. I just am asking you on a professional level where specifically does it say that offers of help on an Access related problem for a fee are prohibited? Steve "Douglas J. Steele" wrote in message ... These newsgroups are not intended for you to solicit commercial business. You know that: you've been told MANY times by MANY different people, yet you still persist. Are you really that egocentric that you figure you can ignore everyone? -- Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP http://I.Am/DougSteele (no e-mails, please!) "PC Datasheet" wrote in message ink.net... Why don't you explain it to me in concrete terms, Doug. "Douglas J. Steele" wrote in message ... You just don't get it, do you Steve? -- Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP http://I.Am/DougSteele (no e-mails, please!) "PC Datasheet" wrote in message link.net... Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help with this. My fees are very reasonable. -- PC Datasheet Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications www.pcdatasheet.com |
#17
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1. You are an Access expert and could answer any question posted. Why don't
you answer the posts that receive no response? A: There are questions that: - I can't answer (lack of knowledge on my part) - I feel someone can answer better than I can for instance skipping labels in a report or PDF related or ADO code or use of lookup fields - I don't want to answer - I don't have time to answer since there are lots of threads 2. Why don't you respond to the posts that you know the poster is not going to solve his problem from the responses he received? A: - I sometimes go off-line for free or if asked, suggest they make a donation to a charity such as Special Olympics - I am never sure how to determine if the NG is going to satisfy a need - I have suggested an OP find a consultant 3. What if any problems do you see being caused by my offering fee-based help to limited posters in the newsgroups? A: - I objected to this post since you were the first to reply and offered to help for a fee - think for a minute (I assume you can think) what these NGs would become if even 10 or 12 other persons posted similar replies of offers to help for a fee. Maybe every MVP and other significant replier should feel free to offer to help for a fee. I would hate for these NGs to become a marketing tool for consultants. Why is Steve/PC Datasheet special that he should be able to use these NGs to fish for work when others don't? Again, I think you either just don't "get it" or refuse to "accept it". -- Duane Hookom MS Access MVP -- "PC Datasheet" wrote in message ink.net... Answer one question: Do you not think that people come to these News Groups looking for free advice/support? People come to the newsgroups looking for a solution to an Access related problem. Some times they get no response; therefore no solution. Sometimes they get a long winded response that provides no solution. Some times they get a response that is beyond their ability and therefore are unable to implement the solution. Some times the response is so poorly written that it is incomprehensible. Some times the response is written so illogically that it is too hard for the average user to understand. Some times the solution being sought is beyond what can reasonably be expected to be given for free. Some times they get a response offering fee-based help. The poster has the option to contact me if he so chooses. Many do because the need for the solution justifies paying for a solution! My fees are very reasonable and these posters are happy to receive my fee-based help. So where else do you think these posters could go to receive a quick solution for a reasonable fee? I would not have criticized you if this thread was about 10 replies long and it was clear that the OP needed to find a contractor. So, you are agreeing that it is OK to offer fee-based services under certain conditions. Well that is just what I am doing! To paraphrase your words a little, when I think that it is clear that the poster is not going to be able to solve his problem from the newsgroup, then I consider offering him the option of fee-based help. And not every response I make is one offering fee-based help. On at least a ten to one ratio, I provide free advice/support over offering fee-based help. In a vast majority of me free responses, I also take the time to provide a very good quality response. I try to provide all the details the poster needs. Since some time ago when an MVP suggested that I clearly say that my offer for help is fee-based, I have tried to follow that suggestion. Answer three questions --- 1. You are an Access expert and could answer any question posted. Why don't you answer the posts that receive no response? 2. Why don't you respond to the posts that you know the poster is not going to solve his problem from the responses he received? 3. What if any problems do you see being caused by my offering fee-based help to limited posters in the newsgroups? Steve PC Datasheet "Duane Hookom" wrote in message ... You just don't get it. I have only criticized you when your entire post is an offer to provide contract/paid services. In this case, you did this in a post not even 90 minutes old. I have never objected to your (or anyone else's) signature line (at least not that I recall). I have even defended you in threads where your only suggestion of selling services was your signature. I don't recall Ken's reply but I expect you are taking it out of context. I could be wrong but I doubt it. Ken certainly did not reply as you did fishing for work on a brand new thread. I would not have criticized you if this thread was about 10 replies long and it was clear that the OP needed to find a contractor. I rarely if ever see replies like some of yours that jump on a brand new thread with an offer to provide consulting services. It may happen more than I have noticed but you must admit that you blatantly advertise or ask for business more than any other poster by a large margin. I don't read all the Access related NGs but if score was kept in the ones I frequent, you wouldn't have any competition. Answer one question: Do you not think that people come to these News Groups looking for free advice/support? -- Duane Hookom MS Access MVP "PC Datasheet" wrote in message hlink.net... Duane, I will preface what I have to say with, I have been reading the newsgroups for many years and all that time you have stood out as a prominent figure. I can say as a fact that everything that you have always had to say was said in a very professional way. From that I have developed great respect for you and continue to feel that respect. What I have to say is meant to be in the spirit of that respect and is no way intended to put you down. None of what you quoted here comes from the Rulse Of Conduct and therefore does not apply. The Rules Of Conduct are found at http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/ga...RulesofConduct and the pertinent part states: "We ask that you refrain from posting advertisements or solicitations that do not pertain directly to the intended use and purpose of the newsgroup or chat." Nonetheless, here is my response --- As far as advertising, please explain in concrete terms how "Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help with this. My fees are very reasonable" is advertising. My sig is advertising but again it pertains to the purpose of the newsgroups to provide Access users a resource for help with Access related problems. Duane Hookom, MS Access is the same type of advertising. So is the following: o "MVPDoug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP" o "See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs." o "John Viescas, author "Building Microsoft Access Applications" (Coming Soon!) "Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out" "Running Microsoft Access 2000" "SQL Queries for Mere Mortals" o David Lloyd MCSD .NET http://LemingtonConsulting.com The above are a very small example of what you see daily on the newsgroups. In terms of Contact me if you would like help, I am not the only one to post this type of post. Every once in a while you will see offers from others besides myself. Consider the following: genenky - You can contact me via www.cadellsoftware.org and we can discuss what you're seeking to do.- Ken Snell MS ACCESS MVP No one posts derogatory responses to these others. Is it because Ken is an MVP? In terms of advertising, consider the following in the sig line of an infrequent responder: "A Christian Response http://www.pastornet.net.au/response" Check out the web address. It has absolutely nothing to do with Access. You see other adverts like this and adverts that are directly in the body of the post. None of the above are ever taken to task for advertising that obviously does not pertain to providing Access users a resource for help with Access problems. In conclusion, I want to ask that you drop out of the crowd of the likes of Arno R, Keith Wilby, Randy Harris and others and defend me from their malicious attacks. If you are not willing to do this then I ask that you keep silent rather than trying to support them. Thanks, Duane, Steve "Duane Hookom" wrote in message ... I did a quick search of google: "NewsGroup" etiquette advertise First Hit ========================= http://www.netscape.co.uk/help/faqs/...oupmanners.htm Don't Spam Spamming is e-mailing or posting unsolicited advertising. Never post advertising on a Newsgroup unless it is specifically created to accept adverts. Second Hit ========================= http://groups.google.com/googlegroup...ing_style.html Please do not use Usenet as an advertising medium. Advertisements on Usenet are rarely appreciated. In general, the louder or more inappropriate the ad is, the more antagonism it stirs up. Just think how annoying it is to you to have your evening meal interrupted by a telemarketer. The feeling is the same when someone posts inappropriate commercial messages in a newsgroup. If in doubt, don't do it. Third Hit ========================== http://www.gotfusion.com/tutsTD/groupetiquette.cfm DO NOT Advertise: It doesn't work, it gets people really really mad, it gets me really really mad, and no matter what you say it will not be taken well. Everyone HATES SPAM. This is one of the things that will guarantee that I bring out my "big hammer" and remove your thread. Do not answer posts of this nature as it just adds to the number of posts I have to remove. If you continue to advertise after being warned you may find yourself blacklisted from posting anything on these newsgroups. Fourth Hit ========================== http://www.mommyshelperonline.com/email-etiquette.html 6.) Use 4-6 lines for your signature line, this is an opportunity to highlight your business or company information, but don't be ostentatious.. -- Duane Hookom MS Access MVP "PC Datasheet" wrote in message link.net... Doug, I have always respected your approach and continue to feel that way. My intent here is not meant to put you down in any way. I just am asking you on a professional level where specifically does it say that offers of help on an Access related problem for a fee are prohibited? Steve "Douglas J. Steele" wrote in message ... These newsgroups are not intended for you to solicit commercial business. You know that: you've been told MANY times by MANY different people, yet you still persist. Are you really that egocentric that you figure you can ignore everyone? -- Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP http://I.Am/DougSteele (no e-mails, please!) "PC Datasheet" wrote in message ink.net... Why don't you explain it to me in concrete terms, Doug. "Douglas J. Steele" wrote in message ... You just don't get it, do you Steve? -- Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP http://I.Am/DougSteele (no e-mails, please!) "PC Datasheet" wrote in message link.net... Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help with this. My fees are very reasonable. -- PC Datasheet Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications www.pcdatasheet.com |
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Steve,
My dad, who clicks twice when he only needs to click once, already knows that newsgroups are not the place for commercial activity. If Sharan wanted for-hire services she wouldn't have posted here. You know that!!! a large number of participants in this newsgroup are opposed to your crass commercial activities I am one of the large number of participants in this newsgroup that is opposed to your commercial activites. And just because its Columbus Day, and I don't have much to do, I'll waste my time to tell you. Normally, the large number of us don't bother to post, but from now on, I think I will. Most of us roll our eyes and grunt over at the 15-20 seconds it took for your post to load, and for us to read it. That is 20 seconds of our lives that we'll never get back. You write well enough that I know you're not as thick as you act. For someone who admits to reading news groups for many years, you know darn well that solicitation/commercial activity is not welcome. What concrete evidence do you have to support this statement? Stop hiding behind a lack of concrete evidence. Social groups have what are called mores (mo * res) that are not documented, but are accepted and expected of the group. Please move on to something else. |
#19
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You have no credibility whoever you are!
You have not posted or responded in the Access newsgroups in the past three years and you hide behind discussions.microsoft.com trying to avoid being traced. Steve "David Mueller" wrote in message news Steve, My dad, who clicks twice when he only needs to click once, already knows that newsgroups are not the place for commercial activity. If Sharan wanted for-hire services she wouldn't have posted here. You know that!!! a large number of participants in this newsgroup are opposed to your crass commercial activities I am one of the large number of participants in this newsgroup that is opposed to your commercial activites. And just because its Columbus Day, and I don't have much to do, I'll waste my time to tell you. Normally, the large number of us don't bother to post, but from now on, I think I will. Most of us roll our eyes and grunt over at the 15-20 seconds it took for your post to load, and for us to read it. That is 20 seconds of our lives that we'll never get back. You write well enough that I know you're not as thick as you act. For someone who admits to reading news groups for many years, you know darn well that solicitation/commercial activity is not welcome. What concrete evidence do you have to support this statement? Stop hiding behind a lack of concrete evidence. Social groups have what are called mores (mo * res) that are not documented, but are accepted and expected of the group. Please move on to something else. |
#20
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Duane,
So answer this ---- On a scale of 0 to 10, rate your feeling for what you would like to see as to what percentage of posters with a legitimate problem gets his problem solved from the newsgroups where 0 is None and 10 is All. Steve "Duane Hookom" wrote in message ... 1. You are an Access expert and could answer any question posted. Why don't you answer the posts that receive no response? A: There are questions that: - I can't answer (lack of knowledge on my part) - I feel someone can answer better than I can for instance skipping labels in a report or PDF related or ADO code or use of lookup fields - I don't want to answer - I don't have time to answer since there are lots of threads 2. Why don't you respond to the posts that you know the poster is not going to solve his problem from the responses he received? A: - I sometimes go off-line for free or if asked, suggest they make a donation to a charity such as Special Olympics - I am never sure how to determine if the NG is going to satisfy a need - I have suggested an OP find a consultant 3. What if any problems do you see being caused by my offering fee-based help to limited posters in the newsgroups? A: - I objected to this post since you were the first to reply and offered to help for a fee - think for a minute (I assume you can think) what these NGs would become if even 10 or 12 other persons posted similar replies of offers to help for a fee. Maybe every MVP and other significant replier should feel free to offer to help for a fee. I would hate for these NGs to become a marketing tool for consultants. Why is Steve/PC Datasheet special that he should be able to use these NGs to fish for work when others don't? Again, I think you either just don't "get it" or refuse to "accept it". -- Duane Hookom MS Access MVP -- "PC Datasheet" wrote in message ink.net... Answer one question: Do you not think that people come to these News Groups looking for free advice/support? People come to the newsgroups looking for a solution to an Access related problem. Some times they get no response; therefore no solution. Sometimes they get a long winded response that provides no solution. Some times they get a response that is beyond their ability and therefore are unable to implement the solution. Some times the response is so poorly written that it is incomprehensible. Some times the response is written so illogically that it is too hard for the average user to understand. Some times the solution being sought is beyond what can reasonably be expected to be given for free. Some times they get a response offering fee-based help. The poster has the option to contact me if he so chooses. Many do because the need for the solution justifies paying for a solution! My fees are very reasonable and these posters are happy to receive my fee-based help. So where else do you think these posters could go to receive a quick solution for a reasonable fee? I would not have criticized you if this thread was about 10 replies long and it was clear that the OP needed to find a contractor. So, you are agreeing that it is OK to offer fee-based services under certain conditions. Well that is just what I am doing! To paraphrase your words a little, when I think that it is clear that the poster is not going to be able to solve his problem from the newsgroup, then I consider offering him the option of fee-based help. And not every response I make is one offering fee-based help. On at least a ten to one ratio, I provide free advice/support over offering fee-based help. In a vast majority of me free responses, I also take the time to provide a very good quality response. I try to provide all the details the poster needs. Since some time ago when an MVP suggested that I clearly say that my offer for help is fee-based, I have tried to follow that suggestion. Answer three questions --- 1. You are an Access expert and could answer any question posted. Why don't you answer the posts that receive no response? 2. Why don't you respond to the posts that you know the poster is not going to solve his problem from the responses he received? 3. What if any problems do you see being caused by my offering fee-based help to limited posters in the newsgroups? Steve PC Datasheet "Duane Hookom" wrote in message ... You just don't get it. I have only criticized you when your entire post is an offer to provide contract/paid services. In this case, you did this in a post not even 90 minutes old. I have never objected to your (or anyone else's) signature line (at least not that I recall). I have even defended you in threads where your only suggestion of selling services was your signature. I don't recall Ken's reply but I expect you are taking it out of context. I could be wrong but I doubt it. Ken certainly did not reply as you did fishing for work on a brand new thread. I would not have criticized you if this thread was about 10 replies long and it was clear that the OP needed to find a contractor. I rarely if ever see replies like some of yours that jump on a brand new thread with an offer to provide consulting services. It may happen more than I have noticed but you must admit that you blatantly advertise or ask for business more than any other poster by a large margin. I don't read all the Access related NGs but if score was kept in the ones I frequent, you wouldn't have any competition. Answer one question: Do you not think that people come to these News Groups looking for free advice/support? -- Duane Hookom MS Access MVP "PC Datasheet" wrote in message hlink.net... Duane, I will preface what I have to say with, I have been reading the newsgroups for many years and all that time you have stood out as a prominent figure. I can say as a fact that everything that you have always had to say was said in a very professional way. From that I have developed great respect for you and continue to feel that respect. What I have to say is meant to be in the spirit of that respect and is no way intended to put you down. None of what you quoted here comes from the Rulse Of Conduct and therefore does not apply. The Rules Of Conduct are found at http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/ga...RulesofConduct and the pertinent part states: "We ask that you refrain from posting advertisements or solicitations that do not pertain directly to the intended use and purpose of the newsgroup or chat." Nonetheless, here is my response --- As far as advertising, please explain in concrete terms how "Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help with this. My fees are very reasonable" is advertising. My sig is advertising but again it pertains to the purpose of the newsgroups to provide Access users a resource for help with Access related problems. Duane Hookom, MS Access is the same type of advertising. So is the following: o "MVPDoug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP" o "See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs." o "John Viescas, author "Building Microsoft Access Applications" (Coming Soon!) "Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out" "Running Microsoft Access 2000" "SQL Queries for Mere Mortals" o David Lloyd MCSD .NET http://LemingtonConsulting.com The above are a very small example of what you see daily on the newsgroups. In terms of Contact me if you would like help, I am not the only one to post this type of post. Every once in a while you will see offers from others besides myself. Consider the following: genenky - You can contact me via www.cadellsoftware.org and we can discuss what you're seeking to do.- Ken Snell MS ACCESS MVP No one posts derogatory responses to these others. Is it because Ken is an MVP? In terms of advertising, consider the following in the sig line of an infrequent responder: "A Christian Response http://www.pastornet.net.au/response" Check out the web address. It has absolutely nothing to do with Access. You see other adverts like this and adverts that are directly in the body of the post. None of the above are ever taken to task for advertising that obviously does not pertain to providing Access users a resource for help with Access problems. In conclusion, I want to ask that you drop out of the crowd of the likes of Arno R, Keith Wilby, Randy Harris and others and defend me from their malicious attacks. If you are not willing to do this then I ask that you keep silent rather than trying to support them. Thanks, Duane, Steve "Duane Hookom" wrote in message ... I did a quick search of google: "NewsGroup" etiquette advertise First Hit ========================= http://www.netscape.co.uk/help/faqs/...oupmanners.htm Don't Spam Spamming is e-mailing or posting unsolicited advertising. Never post advertising on a Newsgroup unless it is specifically created to accept adverts. Second Hit ========================= http://groups.google.com/googlegroup...ing_style.html Please do not use Usenet as an advertising medium. Advertisements on Usenet are rarely appreciated. In general, the louder or more inappropriate the ad is, the more antagonism it stirs up. Just think how annoying it is to you to have your evening meal interrupted by a telemarketer. The feeling is the same when someone posts inappropriate commercial messages in a newsgroup. If in doubt, don't do it. Third Hit ========================== http://www.gotfusion.com/tutsTD/groupetiquette.cfm DO NOT Advertise: It doesn't work, it gets people really really mad, it gets me really really mad, and no matter what you say it will not be taken well. Everyone HATES SPAM. This is one of the things that will guarantee that I bring out my "big hammer" and remove your thread. Do not answer posts of this nature as it just adds to the number of posts I have to remove. If you continue to advertise after being warned you may find yourself blacklisted from posting anything on these newsgroups. Fourth Hit ========================== http://www.mommyshelperonline.com/email-etiquette.html 6.) Use 4-6 lines for your signature line, this is an opportunity to highlight your business or company information, but don't be ostentatious.. -- Duane Hookom MS Access MVP "PC Datasheet" wrote in message link.net... Doug, I have always respected your approach and continue to feel that way. My intent here is not meant to put you down in any way. I just am asking you on a professional level where specifically does it say that offers of help on an Access related problem for a fee are prohibited? Steve "Douglas J. Steele" wrote in message ... These newsgroups are not intended for you to solicit commercial business. You know that: you've been told MANY times by MANY different people, yet you still persist. Are you really that egocentric that you figure you can ignore everyone? -- Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP http://I.Am/DougSteele (no e-mails, please!) "PC Datasheet" wrote in message ink.net... Why don't you explain it to me in concrete terms, Doug. "Douglas J. Steele" wrote in message ... You just don't get it, do you Steve? -- Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP http://I.Am/DougSteele (no e-mails, please!) "PC Datasheet" wrote in message link.net... Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help with this. My fees are very reasonable. -- PC Datasheet Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications www.pcdatasheet.com |
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