Table/Forms Design Question

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:03:01 -0700, Damian
wrote:

I am so confused how I will put the whole summary of Daily report together
its crazy. I think it should be made as a report, but I need all the data
that needs to be entered by a user in forms.

I think you're confusing levels.

You do NOT need to - nor should you!!! - create a table containing the data
for a report.

Tables, Queries, Forms and Reports are all very different objects and have
different functions.

Your Tables would have raw data, such as the fact that foreman Miguel
Rodriguez worked 5 hours on project number 123 on July 16. There'll be
different tables for different kinds of information - a table of Workers with
their unique ID, lastname, firstname, etc; a table of Jobs; etc.

Forms would be used to display, edit and enter data into Tables. The form will
typically have one or more Subforms and Combo Boxes and other tools, so you
can enter data into more than one table at once.

Queries would pull together data from several tables (e.g. so you can display
the name of a job, the date of the job, the count of workers, etc.)

Reports, based on Queries, would display the data stored in the table and
organized using the query.

DON'T make the assumption that you need a Table which matches the appearance
of your printed report!
--

John W. Vinson [MVP]

Damian,

With all due respect, the design of your tables is a mess! I provide help
with Access applications for a reasonable fee. You need help; you are
getting nowhere here in the newsgroup. My fee would be very modest to help
you design the tables you need correctly. If you want my help, contact me.

Steve



"Damian" wrote in message
...
Here is the screenshot for Relationship.

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/868...tion****ss.png



"Gina Whipp" wrote:

Damian,

Have you got the tables set up with relationships? Waiting for the
screenshot...

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" -
Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Damian" wrote in message
...
No he is not a foreman. The names that are under Crews are like the
MAIN
GUYS
and they have Foremans/workers/ and Laborers under them. We do not care
what
the names of them are, JUST how many are under him.

SO Jack Prates has 2 formens and 4 workers under him.

"Steve" wrote:

Your Excel worksheet is confusing! In Laborers, is Jack Pratas a
foreman?
If
not, why does he have two foreman? Crews are typically defined as a
group
of
workers under one foreman.

Steve


"Damian" wrote in message
...
But you see what I am trying to create, right? Under colums Crews on
that
excell are names of Workers, they are in TblWorkers. Column D which
is
Carpenters, Laborers etc are the WorkerType, they are in
TblWorkerType
which
will be linked to TblWorkers. Next we have columns E,F,G which is
Foreman-Workman-Laborers, They are under TblCrew.

Now where and how can I put the Values that are under
Foreman-Workman-Laborer for each worker?

Also should I do the totals is a querie and likn it to a form or do
a
textbox on a form and write the equation there?

"Steve" wrote:

Bob Fox is not in your Excel example to see what you mean.

Steve


"Damian" wrote in message
...
I don't think I need TblForeman since Foreman field will not have
name,
it
only has a number. Like, Bob Fox(WorkerID) will have 2
Foreman(Crew
ID).
Thats what my question is, how do I create my tables to represent
this.
my TblCrew has 2 fields
CrewID
CrewName
This will only allor you to input the Crew name like Foreman or
worken
or
laborer. (these are the only 3) so should there be another
CrewCount
in
this
Tbl? or should the Count be somewhere else?
Look at this excell (
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6924/excellsample.png )
This is what I am trying to create.

But I am little confused on how to link them in a form and create
Good,
Normalized Tables so there is no data repetition as I had in the
beginning.

"Steve" wrote:

You added more to the description of your database and now It
seems
you
need
to modify your tables again! Consider:

TblForeman
ForemanID
ForemanFName
ForemanLName
other foreman fields you might need

TblDailyJob
DailyJobID
DailyJobDate
DailyJobDescription
ForemanID
other job fields you might need

TblDailyJobWorker
DailyJobWorkerID
DailyJobID
WorkerID

Keep previous TblWorkerType and TblWorker. Delete TblCrew and
TblCrewWorker.
You can get the names in a "crew" by getting all the workers on
a
specific
daily job.

Steve


"Damian" wrote in message
...
Great advice. I renamed the tables and I think You are right.
It
will
avoid
confusion.
So far I have this:
( http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1...ellsample2.png )
Image for easier view and review.

What my goal is:
To create a form for a user which has Defined fields for
WorkerType,
Underneeth Worker Name, and across CrewName all there because
there
are
only
handfull of guys for each WorkerType.

The User will input only a number of CrewName he/she had for
that
day..
So
if WorkenName had 1 Formen, 2 Workers and 4 Laborers under
him/her.
She
would
only enter 1 , 2 , 4 under her row for each CrewName. Then
have
fields
for
totaling each thing automatically. Is this all passible with a
form
or
do
I
have to do the totals as a querie and then create a summary
report?

Am I making sense? The first excell image I think explains it
very
nice
what
I mean.

Thanks Guys for helping me with this.

"Steve" wrote:

Hello Damian,

Your tables are still incorrect. To start, how about for
clarity
naming
the
people Workers. The naming a group of workers Crew.

TblWorkerType
WorkerTypeID
WorkerType

TblWorker
WorkerID
WorkerFName
WorkerLName
WorkerTypeID

TblCrew
CrewID
CrewName for identifying different crews

TblCrewWorker
CrewWorkerID
CrewID
WorkerID

You can count the types of workers in a crew in a totals
query
that
includes
all the above tables on the fly.


Steve




"Damian" wrote in message
...
Made a mistake. Is there an Edit button here? hmm

Correction on the Tables:
So Far I have 3 Tables:

Crews Neme
t_CrewID autoNumber PK
t_CrewFname first name
t_CrewLname last name
t_CrewType Carpenter, Surveyor, Laborers - Linked to Crews
Type
Table
so
you can choose from drop down menu.

Crews Data
t_CrewDataID autoNumber PK
t_CrewDataType will be Foreman, Workman, Laborer

Crews Type
t_CrewDetailID autoNumber
t_CrewDetailType will be Carpenter, Surveyor, Laborman

Sorry


"Damian" wrote:

Great Help, thanks to all for info and great links. I'm
starting
to
get
the
Big Picture now.
The only thing I am confused is how will I buld a Form for
the
guys
to
fill
out.
Maybe I should explain what I want to accomplish here.

So Far I have 2 Tables:
Crews Neme
t_CrewID autoNumber PK
t_CrewFname first name
t_CrewLname last name
t_CrewType Workman - Foreman or Laborer Linked from Crews
Data
Table

Crews Data
t_CrewsDataID autoNumber PK
t_CrewsDataType will be Foreman, Workman, Laborer

(Now the data Value that you mentioned 1 , 3 , 2 is the
amount
of
Foreman/Workman/Laborer each Crew had. This field is to be
inserted
by
the
user. so should I still have a DataValue field in my Crews
Data
table
when it
will be different for every t_CrewID and every T_CrewsID
will
have
all
t_CrewsDataTypes?)
I have an excell for this but I want to create a
databaseto
do
this. I
took
a screenshot of the excell so you can understand it and
help
me
better.
(Hope
is ok to post links here like these, if not I am sorry)
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6924/excellsample.png)

Thanks Again




"John W. Vinson" wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:36:01 -0700, Damian

wrote:

I am Trying to create Daily Reports for my company.
I created tables for Carpenters, Laborers, Surveyors,
Ironworkers

Damian,

You don't need to pay for help in a FREE newsgroup! I can help you and will
help set up your tables for FREE right here in the newsgroups.

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Steve" help_available_at_very_reasonable_rates@contactme .com wrote in
message ...
Damian,

With all due respect, the design of your tables is a mess! I provide help
with Access applications for a reasonable fee. You need help; you are
getting nowhere here in the newsgroup. My fee would be very modest to help
you design the tables you need correctly. If you want my help, contact me.

Steve



"Damian" wrote in message
...
Here is the screenshot for Relationship.

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/868...tion****ss.png



"Gina Whipp" wrote:

Damian,

Have you got the tables set up with relationships? Waiting for the
screenshot...

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" -
Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Damian" wrote in message
...
No he is not a foreman. The names that are under Crews are like the
MAIN
GUYS
and they have Foremans/workers/ and Laborers under them. We do not
care
what
the names of them are, JUST how many are under him.

SO Jack Prates has 2 formens and 4 workers under him.

"Steve" wrote:

Your Excel worksheet is confusing! In Laborers, is Jack Pratas a
foreman?
If
not, why does he have two foreman? Crews are typically defined as a
group
of
workers under one foreman.

Steve


"Damian" wrote in message
...
But you see what I am trying to create, right? Under colums Crews
on
that
excell are names of Workers, they are in TblWorkers. Column D which
is
Carpenters, Laborers etc are the WorkerType, they are in
TblWorkerType
which
will be linked to TblWorkers. Next we have columns E,F,G which is
Foreman-Workman-Laborers, They are under TblCrew.

Now where and how can I put the Values that are under
Foreman-Workman-Laborer for each worker?

Also should I do the totals is a querie and likn it to a form or do
a
textbox on a form and write the equation there?

"Steve" wrote:

Bob Fox is not in your Excel example to see what you mean.

Steve


"Damian" wrote in message
...
I don't think I need TblForeman since Foreman field will not have
name,
it
only has a number. Like, Bob Fox(WorkerID) will have 2
Foreman(Crew
ID).
Thats what my question is, how do I create my tables to
represent
this.
my TblCrew has 2 fields
CrewID
CrewName
This will only allor you to input the Crew name like Foreman or
worken
or
laborer. (these are the only 3) so should there be another
CrewCount
in
this
Tbl? or should the Count be somewhere else?
Look at this excell (
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6924/excellsample.png )
This is what I am trying to create.

But I am little confused on how to link them in a form and
create
Good,
Normalized Tables so there is no data repetition as I had in the
beginning.

"Steve" wrote:

You added more to the description of your database and now It
seems
you
need
to modify your tables again! Consider:

TblForeman
ForemanID
ForemanFName
ForemanLName
other foreman fields you might need

TblDailyJob
DailyJobID
DailyJobDate
DailyJobDescription
ForemanID
other job fields you might need

TblDailyJobWorker
DailyJobWorkerID
DailyJobID
WorkerID

Keep previous TblWorkerType and TblWorker. Delete TblCrew and
TblCrewWorker.
You can get the names in a "crew" by getting all the workers on
a
specific
daily job.

Steve


"Damian" wrote in message
...
Great advice. I renamed the tables and I think You are right.
It
will
avoid
confusion.
So far I have this:
( http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1...ellsample2.png )
Image for easier view and review.

What my goal is:
To create a form for a user which has Defined fields for
WorkerType,
Underneeth Worker Name, and across CrewName all there because
there
are
only
handfull of guys for each WorkerType.

The User will input only a number of CrewName he/she had for
that
day..
So
if WorkenName had 1 Formen, 2 Workers and 4 Laborers under
him/her.
She
would
only enter 1 , 2 , 4 under her row for each CrewName. Then
have
fields
for
totaling each thing automatically. Is this all passible with
a
form
or
do
I
have to do the totals as a querie and then create a summary
report?

Am I making sense? The first excell image I think explains it
very
nice
what
I mean.

Thanks Guys for helping me with this.

"Steve" wrote:

Hello Damian,

Your tables are still incorrect. To start, how about for
clarity
naming
the
people Workers. The naming a group of workers Crew.

TblWorkerType
WorkerTypeID
WorkerType

TblWorker
WorkerID
WorkerFName
WorkerLName
WorkerTypeID

TblCrew
CrewID
CrewName for identifying different crews

TblCrewWorker
CrewWorkerID
CrewID
WorkerID

You can count the types of workers in a crew in a totals
query
that
includes
all the above tables on the fly.


Steve




"Damian" wrote in message
...
Made a mistake. Is there an Edit button here? hmm

Correction on the Tables:
So Far I have 3 Tables:

Crews Neme
t_CrewID autoNumber PK
t_CrewFname first name
t_CrewLname last name
t_CrewType Carpenter, Surveyor, Laborers - Linked to
Crews
Type
Table
so
you can choose from drop down menu.

Crews Data
t_CrewDataID autoNumber PK
t_CrewDataType will be Foreman, Workman, Laborer

Crews Type
t_CrewDetailID autoNumber
t_CrewDetailType will be Carpenter, Surveyor, Laborman

Sorry


"Damian" wrote:

Great Help, thanks to all for info and great links. I'm
starting
to
get
the
Big Picture now.
The only thing I am confused is how will I buld a Form
for
the
guys
to
fill
out.
Maybe I should explain what I want to accomplish here.

So Far I have 2 Tables:
Crews Neme
t_CrewID autoNumber PK
t_CrewFname first name
t_CrewLname last name
t_CrewType Workman - Foreman or Laborer Linked from
Crews
Data
Table

Crews Data
t_CrewsDataID autoNumber PK
t_CrewsDataType will be Foreman, Workman, Laborer

(Now the data Value that you mentioned 1 , 3 , 2 is the
amount
of
Foreman/Workman/Laborer each Crew had. This field is to
be
inserted
by
the
user. so should I still have a DataValue field in my
Crews
Data
table
when it
will be different for every t_CrewID and every T_CrewsID
will
have
all
t_CrewsDataTypes?)
I have an excell for this but I want to create a
databaseto
do
this. I
took
a screenshot of the excell so you can understand it and
help
me
better.
(Hope
is ok to post links here like these, if not I am sorry)
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6924/excellsample.png)

Thanks Again




"John W. Vinson" wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:36:01 -0700, Damian

wrote:

I am Trying to create Daily Reports for my company.
I created tables for Carpenters, Laborers, Surveyors,
Ironworkers

"Steve" help_available_at_very_reasonable_rates@contactme .com wrote in
message ...
Damian,

With all due respect, the design of your tables is a mess! I provide help
with Access applications for a reasonable fee. You need help; you are
getting nowhere here in the newsgroup. My fee would be very modest to help
you design the tables you need correctly. If you want my help, contact me.

Steve


Due Respect? Stevie, you do not know the meaning of the term.

These newsgroups are provided by Microsoft for FREE peer to peer support.
There are many highly qualified individuals who gladly help for free. Stevie
is not one of them, but he is the only one who just does not get the idea of
"FREE" support. He offers questionable results at unreasonable prices. If he
was any good, the "thousands" of people he claims to have helped would be
flooding him with work, but there appears to be a continuous drought and he
needs to constantly grovel for work.

A few gems gleaned from the Word New User newsgroup over the Christmas
holidays to show Stevie's "expertise" in Word.


Dec 17, 2008 7:47 pm

Word 2007 ..........
In older versions of Word you could highlght some text then go to Format -
Change Case and change the case of the hoghloghted text. Is this still
available in Word 2007? Where?
Thanks! Steve


Dec 22, 2008 8:22 pm

I am designing a series of paystubs for a client. I start in landscape and
draw a table then add columns and rows to setup labels and their
corresponding value. This all works fine. After a landscape version is
completed, I next need to design a portrait version. Rather than strating
from scratch, I'd like to be able to cut and paste from the landscape
version and design the portrait version.
Steve


Dec 24, 2008, 1:12 PM

How do you protect the document for filling in forms?
Steve


One of my favourites:
Dec 30, 2008 8:07 PM - a reply to stevie
(The original poster asked how to sort a list and stevie offered to create
the OP an Access database)

Steve wrote:
Yes, you are right but a database is the correct tool to use not a
spreadsheet.


Not at all. If it's just a simple list then a spreadsheet is perfectly
adequate...




John... Visio MVP

Damian,

Here you go....

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/DataModel.htm

There are a few fields missing but I have questions. As I said before the
report and the tables do not match. Tables hold data and that's all they
do.

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Damian" wrote in message
...
Here is the screenshot for Relationship.

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/868...tion****ss.png



"Gina Whipp" wrote:

Damian,

Have you got the tables set up with relationships? Waiting for the
screenshot...

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" -
Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Damian" wrote in message
...
No he is not a foreman. The names that are under Crews are like the
MAIN
GUYS
and they have Foremans/workers/ and Laborers under them. We do not care
what
the names of them are, JUST how many are under him.

SO Jack Prates has 2 formens and 4 workers under him.

"Steve" wrote:

Your Excel worksheet is confusing! In Laborers, is Jack Pratas a
foreman?
If
not, why does he have two foreman? Crews are typically defined as a
group
of
workers under one foreman.

Steve


"Damian" wrote in message
...
But you see what I am trying to create, right? Under colums Crews on
that
excell are names of Workers, they are in TblWorkers. Column D which
is
Carpenters, Laborers etc are the WorkerType, they are in
TblWorkerType
which
will be linked to TblWorkers. Next we have columns E,F,G which is
Foreman-Workman-Laborers, They are under TblCrew.

Now where and how can I put the Values that are under
Foreman-Workman-Laborer for each worker?

Also should I do the totals is a querie and likn it to a form or do
a
textbox on a form and write the equation there?

"Steve" wrote:

Bob Fox is not in your Excel example to see what you mean.

Steve


"Damian" wrote in message
...
I don't think I need TblForeman since Foreman field will not have
name,
it
only has a number. Like, Bob Fox(WorkerID) will have 2
Foreman(Crew
ID).
Thats what my question is, how do I create my tables to represent
this.
my TblCrew has 2 fields
CrewID
CrewName
This will only allor you to input the Crew name like Foreman or
worken
or
laborer. (these are the only 3) so should there be another
CrewCount
in
this
Tbl? or should the Count be somewhere else?
Look at this excell (
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6924/excellsample.png )
This is what I am trying to create.

But I am little confused on how to link them in a form and create
Good,
Normalized Tables so there is no data repetition as I had in the
beginning.

"Steve" wrote:

You added more to the description of your database and now It
seems
you
need
to modify your tables again! Consider:

TblForeman
ForemanID
ForemanFName
ForemanLName
other foreman fields you might need

TblDailyJob
DailyJobID
DailyJobDate
DailyJobDescription
ForemanID
other job fields you might need

TblDailyJobWorker
DailyJobWorkerID
DailyJobID
WorkerID

Keep previous TblWorkerType and TblWorker. Delete TblCrew and
TblCrewWorker.
You can get the names in a "crew" by getting all the workers on
a
specific
daily job.

Steve


"Damian" wrote in message
...
Great advice. I renamed the tables and I think You are right.
It
will
avoid
confusion.
So far I have this:
( http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1...ellsample2.png )
Image for easier view and review.

What my goal is:
To create a form for a user which has Defined fields for
WorkerType,
Underneeth Worker Name, and across CrewName all there because
there
are
only
handfull of guys for each WorkerType.

The User will input only a number of CrewName he/she had for
that
day..
So
if WorkenName had 1 Formen, 2 Workers and 4 Laborers under
him/her.
She
would
only enter 1 , 2 , 4 under her row for each CrewName. Then
have
fields
for
totaling each thing automatically. Is this all passible with a
form
or
do
I
have to do the totals as a querie and then create a summary
report?

Am I making sense? The first excell image I think explains it
very
nice
what
I mean.

Thanks Guys for helping me with this.

"Steve" wrote:

Hello Damian,

Your tables are still incorrect. To start, how about for
clarity
naming
the
people Workers. The naming a group of workers Crew.

TblWorkerType
WorkerTypeID
WorkerType

TblWorker
WorkerID
WorkerFName
WorkerLName
WorkerTypeID

TblCrew
CrewID
CrewName for identifying different crews

TblCrewWorker
CrewWorkerID
CrewID
WorkerID

You can count the types of workers in a crew in a totals
query
that
includes
all the above tables on the fly.


Steve




"Damian" wrote in message
...
Made a mistake. Is there an Edit button here? hmm

Correction on the Tables:
So Far I have 3 Tables:

Crews Neme
t_CrewID autoNumber PK
t_CrewFname first name
t_CrewLname last name
t_CrewType Carpenter, Surveyor, Laborers - Linked to Crews
Type
Table
so
you can choose from drop down menu.

Crews Data
t_CrewDataID autoNumber PK
t_CrewDataType will be Foreman, Workman, Laborer

Crews Type
t_CrewDetailID autoNumber
t_CrewDetailType will be Carpenter, Surveyor, Laborman

Sorry


"Damian" wrote:

Great Help, thanks to all for info and great links. I'm
starting
to
get
the
Big Picture now.
The only thing I am confused is how will I buld a Form for
the
guys
to
fill
out.
Maybe I should explain what I want to accomplish here.

So Far I have 2 Tables:
Crews Neme
t_CrewID autoNumber PK
t_CrewFname first name
t_CrewLname last name
t_CrewType Workman - Foreman or Laborer Linked from Crews
Data
Table

Crews Data
t_CrewsDataID autoNumber PK
t_CrewsDataType will be Foreman, Workman, Laborer

(Now the data Value that you mentioned 1 , 3 , 2 is the
amount
of
Foreman/Workman/Laborer each Crew had. This field is to be
inserted
by
the
user. so should I still have a DataValue field in my Crews
Data
table
when it
will be different for every t_CrewID and every T_CrewsID
will
have
all
t_CrewsDataTypes?)
I have an excell for this but I want to create a
databaseto
do
this. I
took
a screenshot of the excell so you can understand it and
help
me
better.
(Hope
is ok to post links here like these, if not I am sorry)
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6924/excellsample.png)

Thanks Again




"John W. Vinson" wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:36:01 -0700, Damian

wrote:

I am Trying to create Daily Reports for my company.
I created tables for Carpenters, Laborers, Surveyors,
Ironworkers

"Steve" help_available_at_very_reasonable_rates@contactme .com wrote in
message ...
Damian,

With all due respect, the design of your tables is a mess! I provide help
with Access applications for a reasonable fee. You need help; you are
getting nowhere here in the newsgroup.

How does "getting nowhere here in the newsgroup" equate to "all due
respect"? You're suggesting that John and Gina are not capable of
bottomming this out (and I am sure that they *are*) and you talk of respect?
You become a bigger moron with each posting. I'd follow their advice over
yours any day of the week and it would cost what your advice is worth.

Steve: Maybe my tables are a mess, but I am trying to learn. If You just
gonna do it, I am not going to learn anything. Correct me if I am wronk , but
this is not a huge project, its a small daily report for hand full of people.
I want to understand access better. I am reading access 2007 bible and trying
to learn, but there is nothing better then 1 on 1 help and support for you
particular project and this discussion group is providing it for free. Gina,
John and Keith have been a huge help and are great moral human beings who
like to help people. And even you Steve helped me...you just a little
impatient.

"John... Visio MVP" wrote:

"Steve" help_available_at_very_reasonable_rates@contactme .com wrote in
message ...
Damian,

With all due respect, the design of your tables is a mess! I provide help
with Access applications for a reasonable fee. You need help; you are
getting nowhere here in the newsgroup. My fee would be very modest to help
you design the tables you need correctly. If you want my help, contact me.

Steve


Due Respect? Stevie, you do not know the meaning of the term.

These newsgroups are provided by Microsoft for FREE peer to peer support.
There are many highly qualified individuals who gladly help for free. Stevie
is not one of them, but he is the only one who just does not get the idea of
"FREE" support. He offers questionable results at unreasonable prices. If he
was any good, the "thousands" of people he claims to have helped would be
flooding him with work, but there appears to be a continuous drought and he
needs to constantly grovel for work.

A few gems gleaned from the Word New User newsgroup over the Christmas
holidays to show Stevie's "expertise" in Word.


Dec 17, 2008 7:47 pm

Word 2007 ..........
In older versions of Word you could highlght some text then go to Format -
Change Case and change the case of the hoghloghted text. Is this still
available in Word 2007? Where?
Thanks! Steve


Dec 22, 2008 8:22 pm

I am designing a series of paystubs for a client. I start in landscape and
draw a table then add columns and rows to setup labels and their
corresponding value. This all works fine. After a landscape version is
completed, I next need to design a portrait version. Rather than strating
from scratch, I'd like to be able to cut and paste from the landscape
version and design the portrait version.
Steve


Dec 24, 2008, 1:12 PM

How do you protect the document for filling in forms?
Steve


One of my favourites:
Dec 30, 2008 8:07 PM - a reply to stevie
(The original poster asked how to sort a list and stevie offered to create
the OP an Access database)

Steve wrote:
Yes, you are right but a database is the correct tool to use not a
spreadsheet.


Not at all. If it's just a simple list then a spreadsheet is perfectly
adequate...




John... Visio MVP

Damian,

Thank you for the kind words... now on to your database!

Did you take a look at the Data Model I posted for you? I'm hoping we can
review it and it will help you understand Relational Database design and
Relationships, as well as, Normalization. The below links might also
help...

Jeff Conrad's resources page:
http://www.accessmvp.com/JConrad/acc...resources.html

The Access Web resources page:
http://www.mvps.org/access/resources/index.html

A free tutorial written by Crystal (MS Access MVP):
http://allenbrowne.com/casu-22.html

MVP Allen Browne's tutorials:
http://allenbrowne.com/links.html#Tutorials

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Damian" wrote in message
...
Steve: Maybe my tables are a mess, but I am trying to learn. If You just
gonna do it, I am not going to learn anything. Correct me if I am wronk ,
but
this is not a huge project, its a small daily report for hand full of
people.
I want to understand access better. I am reading access 2007 bible and
trying
to learn, but there is nothing better then 1 on 1 help and support for you
particular project and this discussion group is providing it for free.
Gina,
John and Keith have been a huge help and are great moral human beings who
like to help people. And even you Steve helped me...you just a little
impatient.

"John... Visio MVP" wrote:

"Steve" help_available_at_very_reasonable_rates@contactme .com wrote in
message ...
Damian,

With all due respect, the design of your tables is a mess! I provide
help
with Access applications for a reasonable fee. You need help; you are
getting nowhere here in the newsgroup. My fee would be very modest to
help
you design the tables you need correctly. If you want my help, contact
me.

Steve


Due Respect? Stevie, you do not know the meaning of the term.

These newsgroups are provided by Microsoft for FREE peer to peer support.
There are many highly qualified individuals who gladly help for free.
Stevie
is not one of them, but he is the only one who just does not get the idea
of
"FREE" support. He offers questionable results at unreasonable prices. If
he
was any good, the "thousands" of people he claims to have helped would be
flooding him with work, but there appears to be a continuous drought and
he
needs to constantly grovel for work.

A few gems gleaned from the Word New User newsgroup over the Christmas
holidays to show Stevie's "expertise" in Word.


Dec 17, 2008 7:47 pm

Word 2007 ..........
In older versions of Word you could highlght some text then go to
Format -
Change Case and change the case of the hoghloghted text. Is this still
available in Word 2007? Where?
Thanks! Steve


Dec 22, 2008 8:22 pm

I am designing a series of paystubs for a client. I start in landscape
and
draw a table then add columns and rows to setup labels and their
corresponding value. This all works fine. After a landscape version is
completed, I next need to design a portrait version. Rather than strating
from scratch, I'd like to be able to cut and paste from the landscape
version and design the portrait version.
Steve


Dec 24, 2008, 1:12 PM

How do you protect the document for filling in forms?
Steve


One of my favourites:
Dec 30, 2008 8:07 PM - a reply to stevie
(The original poster asked how to sort a list and stevie offered to
create
the OP an Access database)

Steve wrote:
Yes, you are right but a database is the correct tool to use not a
spreadsheet.


Not at all. If it's just a simple list then a spreadsheet is perfectly
adequate...




John... Visio MVP

Here are the new tables and relationship screenshot.
( http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/377/relationships2.png )

I left weather out since it has no connection to anything. I just want to
use it later as a Headder on a form or report.

Also the jDiscription is your tblJobs I took it out because the only
description that will be entered is for Subcontractors. Also I linked Tbl
Subcontractors to Tbl Job Detail Summary because it will be using 2 fields
from Tbl Jobs (Foreman and Workers).

I know that I should not be thinking about Forms and Reports but I want to
see the Big Picture and Understand how to set up tables and Relationships. I
learned that TblDetail is used as a pass-through table right? so thats why I
dont think I need to link weather because its only going to be used once per
daily report to show what the weather was like today.

The data is not private. I can send you thw whole excel sheet if you like.
The guys where using that for a while but it failed miserably since it cant
be accessed by more that one user at a time.

Thanks Gina



"Gina Whipp" wrote:

Damian,

Here you go....

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/DataModel.htm

There are a few fields missing but I have questions. As I said before the
report and the tables do not match. Tables hold data and that's all they
do.

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Damian" wrote in message
...
Here is the screenshot for Relationship.

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/868...tion****ss.png



"Gina Whipp" wrote:

Damian,

Have you got the tables set up with relationships? Waiting for the
screenshot...

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" -
Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Damian" wrote in message
...
No he is not a foreman. The names that are under Crews are like the
MAIN
GUYS
and they have Foremans/workers/ and Laborers under them. We do not care
what
the names of them are, JUST how many are under him.

SO Jack Prates has 2 formens and 4 workers under him.

"Steve" wrote:

Your Excel worksheet is confusing! In Laborers, is Jack Pratas a
foreman?
If
not, why does he have two foreman? Crews are typically defined as a
group
of
workers under one foreman.

Steve


"Damian" wrote in message
...
But you see what I am trying to create, right? Under colums Crews on
that
excell are names of Workers, they are in TblWorkers. Column D which
is
Carpenters, Laborers etc are the WorkerType, they are in
TblWorkerType
which
will be linked to TblWorkers. Next we have columns E,F,G which is
Foreman-Workman-Laborers, They are under TblCrew.

Now where and how can I put the Values that are under
Foreman-Workman-Laborer for each worker?

Also should I do the totals is a querie and likn it to a form or do
a
textbox on a form and write the equation there?

"Steve" wrote:

Bob Fox is not in your Excel example to see what you mean.

Steve


"Damian" wrote in message
...
I don't think I need TblForeman since Foreman field will not have
name,
it
only has a number. Like, Bob Fox(WorkerID) will have 2
Foreman(Crew
ID).
Thats what my question is, how do I create my tables to represent
this.
my TblCrew has 2 fields
CrewID
CrewName
This will only allor you to input the Crew name like Foreman or
worken
or
laborer. (these are the only 3) so should there be another
CrewCount
in
this
Tbl? or should the Count be somewhere else?
Look at this excell (
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6924/excellsample.png )
This is what I am trying to create.

But I am little confused on how to link them in a form and create
Good,
Normalized Tables so there is no data repetition as I had in the
beginning.

"Steve" wrote:

You added more to the description of your database and now It
seems
you
need
to modify your tables again! Consider:

TblForeman
ForemanID
ForemanFName
ForemanLName
other foreman fields you might need

TblDailyJob
DailyJobID
DailyJobDate
DailyJobDescription
ForemanID
other job fields you might need

TblDailyJobWorker
DailyJobWorkerID
DailyJobID
WorkerID

Keep previous TblWorkerType and TblWorker. Delete TblCrew and
TblCrewWorker.
You can get the names in a "crew" by getting all the workers on
a
specific
daily job.

Steve


"Damian" wrote in message
...
Great advice. I renamed the tables and I think You are right.
It
will
avoid
confusion.
So far I have this:
( http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1...ellsample2.png )
Image for easier view and review.

What my goal is:
To create a form for a user which has Defined fields for
WorkerType,
Underneeth Worker Name, and across CrewName all there because
there
are
only
handfull of guys for each WorkerType.

The User will input only a number of CrewName he/she had for
that
day..
So
if WorkenName had 1 Formen, 2 Workers and 4 Laborers under
him/her.
She
would
only enter 1 , 2 , 4 under her row for each CrewName. Then
have
fields
for
totaling each thing automatically. Is this all passible with a
form
or
do
I
have to do the totals as a querie and then create a summary
report?

Am I making sense? The first excell image I think explains it
very
nice
what
I mean.

Thanks Guys for helping me with this.

"Steve" wrote:

Hello Damian,

Your tables are still incorrect. To start, how about for
clarity
naming
the
people Workers. The naming a group of workers Crew.

TblWorkerType
WorkerTypeID
WorkerType

TblWorker
WorkerID
WorkerFName
WorkerLName
WorkerTypeID

TblCrew
CrewID
CrewName for identifying different crews

TblCrewWorker
CrewWorkerID
CrewID
WorkerID

You can count the types of workers in a crew in a totals
query
that
includes
all the above tables on the fly.


Steve




"Damian" wrote in message
...
Made a mistake. Is there an Edit button here? hmm

Correction on the Tables:
So Far I have 3 Tables:

Crews Neme
t_CrewID autoNumber PK
t_CrewFname first name
t_CrewLname last name
t_CrewType Carpenter, Surveyor, Laborers - Linked to Crews
Type
Table
so
you can choose from drop down menu.

Crews Data
t_CrewDataID autoNumber PK
t_CrewDataType will be Foreman, Workman, Laborer

Crews Type
t_CrewDetailID autoNumber
t_CrewDetailType will be Carpenter, Surveyor, Laborman

Sorry


"Damian" wrote:

Great Help, thanks to all for info and great links. I'm
starting
to
get
the
Big Picture now.
The only thing I am confused is how will I buld a Form for
the
guys
to
fill
out.
Maybe I should explain what I want to accomplish here.

So Far I have 2 Tables:
Crews Neme
t_CrewID autoNumber PK
t_CrewFname first name
t_CrewLname last name
t_CrewType Workman - Foreman or Laborer Linked from Crews
Data
Table

Answers in-line...

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Damian" wrote in message
...
Here are the new tables and relationship screenshot.
( http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/377/relationships2.png )

I left weather out since it has no connection to anything. I just want to
use it later as a Headder on a form or report.

Are you looking to Weather as in, "Rained Today" OR Weather the day of the
Job? How many Jobs are going to be put in here? If you are going to show
the Weather the day the Job is being done then you need to include weather
in tblJobDetail (I explain why you want that later on.)


Also the jDiscription is your tblJobs I took it out because the only
description that will be entered is for Subcontractors. Also I linked Tbl
Subcontractors to Tbl Job Detail Summary because it will be using 2 fields
from Tbl Jobs (Foreman and Workers).

Explain how you are using Description in the Subcontractors table. Also,
why do you need a seperate table for Subcontractors? Why not add them to
Crew and set the Crew Type as Subscontractors? You really don't want
seperate tables for each Crew member type. That would be like having a
seperate table for Administrative Assistants, Manager, CEO, etc... You want
one table that you can specify Crew member type.

I know that I should not be thinking about Forms and Reports but I want to
see the Big Picture and Understand how to set up tables and Relationships.
I
learned that TblDetail is used as a pass-through table right? so thats
why I
dont think I need to link weather because its only going to be used once
per
daily report to show what the weather was like today.

tblJobDetail is not a pass-through table, it is exactly what it says. There
will be ONE Job but many Crew memeber attached to that Job. There will be
ONE Job but several pieces of equipment will be attached to that Job.
Making any sense?

As for Forms and Reports... they are just Windows allowing you see Outside
world (the data). Setting up tables has nothing to do with how the tables
look, the same way the Window in your home can't control what you see
outside, just that you can see outside. Make sense?

Think One-to-Many... One natural Mom (Job) per child ----- and a Mom can
have ten children (Job Detail)

The data is not private. I can send you thw whole excel sheet if you like.
The guys where using that for a while but it failed miserably since it
cant
be accessed by more that one user at a time.

I think we might be okay so won't need the Excel spreadsheet right now.

More tidbits...

1. Get rid of the spacing in your table and field names (if there are any),
it will only make extra work for you later on.
2. Explain the whole Equipment scenario to me... I'm not sure I understand
why Area is in it and how you use it except to assign Equipment to a Job.

--
Gina Whipp

SNIPPED