DITCH THE RIBBON!

...
since November, the more experienced users are the ones who have the
most trouble with the new UI. Beginner and a lot of average users can
figure out fairly quickly where all the things they normally use are in
the ribbon. In addition, they benefit from the much better
discoverability of features that the ribbon offers.
However, the users who know a program in and out, use keyboard
shortcuts, floating toolbars, etc are the ones who have the highest
learning curve. It's really the power users that get into trouble with
the new UI.
...

Debatable. People who are used to using the keyboard and seldom if ever
the mouse shouldn't have trouble with Excel 2007 since it seems to have
a compatibility mode for key sequences beginning with [Alt]+letter as
opposed to [Alt] alone. Gotta wonder how long that'll last.
At least for 2007. They might change this of course in Office 14 (#13 is
being skipped).

I was thinking more about the intermediate users, those with a few
years of experience with Office but not decades of experience using
spreadsheets and word processors. The sort of people who wouldn't have
learned to use keyboards back in the dark ages when mice were rare if
ever to be seen at all, and who know where things are in the current
menu but will have to hunt for things in the ribbon menu. For them
it'll be a trade-off between finding new (to them) commands more easily
but a struggle to find some commands they already know.
Valid point.

Excel: Lots of people are unhappy with the ribbon in Excel. It doesn't
seem to be so much the ribbon itself, but rather the limit to one
toolbar, no floating toolbars, no easy ribbon customization, etc. I know
that you are an Excel power user, so I am not surprised at all that you
are in the unhappy camp.
...

In a nutshell, the ribbon breaks MANY existing Excel
models/applications with no simple fixes. FWLIW, the ribbon allows more
than one custom toolbar, but all custom toolbars appear in the Add-Ins
tab.
Not really toolbars for me then. Also, you can't create any new toolbars
without VBA in 2007 (as the UI for the toolbars is no longer there).


According to Microsoft's statistical data though, 98% of all users use
the default 2003 UI. The data is of course skewed in favor of this
argument, because the people who are most likely to change their UI are
also the ones most likely to switch off the tool that reports the data
to MS (or have it switched off on a corporate level). . . .
...

Unsubstantiated 'statistics' are the cream of USENET!

Any urls for these statistics?
I figured you had already seen the statistic, as you complained about
Jensen's article
http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/archiv...17/577485.aspx
He cites that fewer than 2% customize the UI.

However, there are a few Excel applications that also get rid of the
2003 & prior menu bar in favor of a few command buttons in worksheets.
That sort of Excel application will become impossible in Excel 2007
unless there's some hush-hush property to hide the new UI entirely.
Actually such a property has existed since Beta 1. It's
startFromScratch=true in RibbonX. See the blog on my website for
information on RibbonX and ribbon customization in general.

OK, but I had meant an Excel object model property that could have been
set/modified by VBA. I realize Microsoft would dearly love to wean
Office developers from VBA so that they could sell more VSTO units, but
the claimed reason of security and maintainability rings hollow. The
single best thing MSFT could do for Office users would be to separate
VBA statements and Excel OM methods/properties into security categories
like safe (e.g., OM's Cells.Count property), dangerous (e.g., VBA's
Shell and Declare statements and OM's Application.ExecuteXL4Macro
method), and suspect (example: VBA's ChDir and OM's
Application.EnableEvents property), then have highly protected means of
restricting Office macro execution to only safe code, only safe and
suspect code or any code, and make it impossible for this setting to be
changed while ANY Office application were running. It'd be nice to be
able to include udfs using only safe properties and VBA code without
having the macro security dialog appearing for medium macro security or
dealing with certification.
The problem is that to alter the 2007 UI, you can't use VBA at all. You
need to use XML (RibbonX) that is embedded in the xlsx file. So you can
change the UI without VSTO, but you can't do it straight from VBA. I've
got a post on my blog that details how to do this with Word, which is
the exact same method one has to use for Excel.
BTW, the macro security handling has been altered in Excel 2007 as well.
Look up the Excel 12 blog for details.

So does your approach completely eliminate the ribbon as in, e.g., a
maximized Excel worksheet's top row appears immediately below the
application window's title bar when row/column headers are disabled?
Not exactly. You get the title bar plus an empty bar below it. It takes
up as much space as when you minimize the ribbon. The problem seems to
be that the Office button spans two rows and hence the second row that
normally contains the ribbon tabs needs to stay visible.


Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net

I've always disagreed with Microsoft's "statistics" on UI
customization. I suspect they didn't take into account templates or
add-ins (I'm not referring to third-party add-ins) that customize the
UI or when one uses VBA to customize the UI. I believe the statistic
are based on the use of the Customize dialog box.

And I know it's been stated, those that are savvy enough to customize
the UI are also savvy enough to not opt into CEIP. I know I didn't
even when I fully understood it. (Well...apparently I didn't fully
understand since I didn't realize it would end up resulting in the
lack of customization. g) I've asked numerous times if they could
provide the percentage of registered Office users compared to the
users who opted into CEIP.

The inability to easily customize the ribbon (and the QAT doesn't cut
it) and the lack of floating toolbars is my one complaint for Office
2007 and why can't say I love the new UI. I've accepted it - but I
still can't say I love it. While I appreciate all of your hard work,
Patrick, in building the add-in to customize the ribbon, IMHO that's
something that we should have never needed to begin with - ease in
customization should be a standard function.

~Beth Melton

"Patrick Schmid" wrote in message
...

I figured you had already seen the statistic, as you complained
about Jensen's article
http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/archiv...17/577485.aspx
He cites that fewer than 2% customize the UI.

still can't say I love it. While I appreciate all of your hard work,
Patrick, in building the add-in to customize the ribbon, IMHO that's
something that we should have never needed to begin with - ease in
customization should be a standard function.
I wished I didn't have to write such an add-in. I too would expect user
customization to be a built-in feature.

Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net

"Patrick Schmid" wrote in message
...

I figured you had already seen the statistic, as you complained
about Jensen's article
http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/archiv...17/577485.aspx
He cites that fewer than 2% customize the UI.

Patrick Schmid wrote...
....
I wished I didn't have to write such an add-in. I too would expect user
customization to be a built-in feature.

Not cynical enough. I believe I read at some point in the Excel blog
that one of the selling points for Office 2007, at least to large
corporations, would be reduced support costs from having to assist
users who customized too much.

However, Microsoft approached this in typical Microsoft fashion. Did
they provide a group policy setting that would prevent UI customization
while providing UI customization tools for individual Office buyers or
the lucky few in large corporations allowed the priviledge of
customizing their UI? Of course not. No group policy setting to make
this secure. Instead, we'll get many people trying (and many likely
failing) to use your add-in. Fewer people may try to customize their
UI, but many of those who do will screw things up much worse than they
ever did with Tools Customize.

Apparently Microsoft doesn't try to learn lessons from Linux
developers. The Gnome 2.0 interface introduced a menu based on an XML
scheme, but the Gnome Project failed to include a menu editor. Users
were left to edit the XML. Much fun, failure and flames ensued. This
bit of history is set to repeat when Office 2007 goes on sale.

...
I wished I didn't have to write such an add-in. I too would expect user
customization to be a built-in feature.

Not cynical enough. I believe I read at some point in the Excel blog
that one of the selling points for Office 2007, at least to large
corporations, would be reduced support costs from having to assist
users who customized too much.
The UI blog touted this as advantage as well.

However, Microsoft approached this in typical Microsoft fashion. Did
they provide a group policy setting that would prevent UI customization
while providing UI customization tools for individual Office buyers or
the lucky few in large corporations allowed the priviledge of
customizing their UI? Of course not. No group policy setting to make
this secure. Instead, we'll get many people trying (and many likely
That solution would have been desirable. They could have prevented many
accidental customizations by making customization a feature in Options,
so that users had to go there and do it explicitly.

failing) to use your add-in. Fewer people may try to customize their
UI, but many of those who do will screw things up much worse than they
ever did with Tools Customize.
I hope I'll be able to prevent that. Customization can be switched off
with one mouse click in the UI of my add-in. In addition, I'll look into
providing a GPO to disable the add-in automatically.

Apparently Microsoft doesn't try to learn lessons from Linux
developers. The Gnome 2.0 interface introduced a menu based on an XML
scheme, but the Gnome Project failed to include a menu editor. Users
were left to edit the XML. Much fun, failure and flames ensued. This
bit of history is set to repeat when Office 2007 goes on sale.
Interesting. I didn't know about that one.

Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net

no one has addressed the stupid Perl

noone has addressed how computer syppor people are going to give
instructions via telephone
with this stupid 2007 interface...

let me give you an example of what i mean:

winXP = go to start then all programs bla bla..

on vista :
-Go to start.
- I see no start anywhere...
- Oh you are using Vista?
-Yeah...Im new to computers....
-Ok great...see the perl?
-what perl?
-that round thing with a flag in it...
-Where? I dont see no flag...
-In the lower left corner of your screen. That rectangular thing that has 4
colors inside..
-Thats a flag? I dont think its a flag.. And you call this the Perl? It
doesnt look like a perl....
-Well JUST PRESS that DAMN THINGY!!!


Not take this and apply it to the perl in office and the horrible
ribbon.....

its gonna be a circus!!!!

"Patrick Schmid" wrote in message
...
...
I wished I didn't have to write such an add-in. I too would expect user
customization to be a built-in feature.

Not cynical enough. I believe I read at some point in the Excel blog
that one of the selling points for Office 2007, at least to large
corporations, would be reduced support costs from having to assist
users who customized too much.
The UI blog touted this as advantage as well.

However, Microsoft approached this in typical Microsoft fashion. Did
they provide a group policy setting that would prevent UI customization
while providing UI customization tools for individual Office buyers or
the lucky few in large corporations allowed the priviledge of
customizing their UI? Of course not. No group policy setting to make
this secure. Instead, we'll get many people trying (and many likely
That solution would have been desirable. They could have prevented many
accidental customizations by making customization a feature in Options, so
that users had to go there and do it explicitly.

failing) to use your add-in. Fewer people may try to customize their
UI, but many of those who do will screw things up much worse than they
ever did with Tools Customize.
I hope I'll be able to prevent that. Customization can be switched off
with one mouse click in the UI of my add-in. In addition, I'll look into
providing a GPO to disable the add-in automatically.

Apparently Microsoft doesn't try to learn lessons from Linux
developers. The Gnome 2.0 interface introduced a menu based on an XML
scheme, but the Gnome Project failed to include a menu editor. Users
were left to edit the XML. Much fun, failure and flames ensued. This
bit of history is set to repeat when Office 2007 goes on sale.
Interesting. I didn't know about that one.

Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net

John Jay Smith

If you provide feedback in a positive way then you can get people to listen.
The only thing your doing is complaining and most people aren't going to
listen to someone complain and those who do usually do so only to prove the
complainers points wrong some of the time....In the future make your
feedback in a positive way and I'm sure you can get lot more people to
listen and may even make some positive things happen

--
Paul Ballou
MVP Office
http://office.microsoft.com/home
http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/
http://www.ballousgiftshop.com

Life would be easier if we could view the source code

"John Jay Smith" - wrote in message
...
no one has addressed the stupid Perl

noone has addressed how computer syppor people are going to give
instructions via telephone
with this stupid 2007 interface...

let me give you an example of what i mean:

winXP = go to start then all programs bla bla..

on vista :
-Go to start.
- I see no start anywhere...
- Oh you are using Vista?
-Yeah...Im new to computers....
-Ok great...see the perl?
-what perl?
-that round thing with a flag in it...
-Where? I dont see no flag...
-In the lower left corner of your screen. That rectangular thing that has
4 colors inside..
-Thats a flag? I dont think its a flag.. And you call this the Perl? It
doesnt look like a perl....
-Well JUST PRESS that DAMN THINGY!!!


Not take this and apply it to the perl in office and the horrible
ribbon.....

its gonna be a circus!!!!

"Patrick Schmid" wrote in message
...
...
I wished I didn't have to write such an add-in. I too would expect user
customization to be a built-in feature.

Not cynical enough. I believe I read at some point in the Excel blog
that one of the selling points for Office 2007, at least to large
corporations, would be reduced support costs from having to assist
users who customized too much.
The UI blog touted this as advantage as well.

However, Microsoft approached this in typical Microsoft fashion. Did
they provide a group policy setting that would prevent UI customization
while providing UI customization tools for individual Office buyers or
the lucky few in large corporations allowed the priviledge of
customizing their UI? Of course not. No group policy setting to make
this secure. Instead, we'll get many people trying (and many likely
That solution would have been desirable. They could have prevented many
accidental customizations by making customization a feature in Options,
so that users had to go there and do it explicitly.

failing) to use your add-in. Fewer people may try to customize their
UI, but many of those who do will screw things up much worse than they
ever did with Tools Customize.
I hope I'll be able to prevent that. Customization can be switched off
with one mouse click in the UI of my add-in. In addition, I'll look into
providing a GPO to disable the add-in automatically.

Apparently Microsoft doesn't try to learn lessons from Linux
developers. The Gnome 2.0 interface introduced a menu based on an XML
scheme, but the Gnome Project failed to include a menu editor. Users
were left to edit the XML. Much fun, failure and flames ensued. This
bit of history is set to repeat when Office 2007 goes on sale.
Interesting. I didn't know about that one.

Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net

Well who says I am not using BOTH stategies?

:-) You do things your way.. and Ill do things my way....

ok?


"Paul Ballou" wrote in message
...
John Jay Smith

If you provide feedback in a positive way then you can get people to
listen. The only thing your doing is complaining and most people aren't
going to listen to someone complain and those who do usually do so only to
prove the complainers points wrong some of the time....In the future make
your feedback in a positive way and I'm sure you can get lot more people
to listen and may even make some positive things happen

--
Paul Ballou
MVP Office
http://office.microsoft.com/home
http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/
http://www.ballousgiftshop.com

Life would be easier if we could view the source code

"John Jay Smith" - wrote in message
...
no one has addressed the stupid Perl

noone has addressed how computer syppor people are going to give
instructions via telephone
with this stupid 2007 interface...

let me give you an example of what i mean:

winXP = go to start then all programs bla bla..

on vista :
-Go to start.
- I see no start anywhere...
- Oh you are using Vista?
-Yeah...Im new to computers....
-Ok great...see the perl?
-what perl?
-that round thing with a flag in it...
-Where? I dont see no flag...
-In the lower left corner of your screen. That rectangular thing that has
4 colors inside..
-Thats a flag? I dont think its a flag.. And you call this the Perl? It
doesnt look like a perl....
-Well JUST PRESS that DAMN THINGY!!!


Not take this and apply it to the perl in office and the horrible
ribbon.....

its gonna be a circus!!!!

"Patrick Schmid" wrote in message
...
...
I wished I didn't have to write such an add-in. I too would expect
user
customization to be a built-in feature.

Not cynical enough. I believe I read at some point in the Excel blog
that one of the selling points for Office 2007, at least to large
corporations, would be reduced support costs from having to assist
users who customized too much.
The UI blog touted this as advantage as well.

However, Microsoft approached this in typical Microsoft fashion. Did
they provide a group policy setting that would prevent UI customization
while providing UI customization tools for individual Office buyers or
the lucky few in large corporations allowed the priviledge of
customizing their UI? Of course not. No group policy setting to make
this secure. Instead, we'll get many people trying (and many likely
That solution would have been desirable. They could have prevented many
accidental customizations by making customization a feature in Options,
so that users had to go there and do it explicitly.

failing) to use your add-in. Fewer people may try to customize their
UI, but many of those who do will screw things up much worse than they
ever did with Tools Customize.
I hope I'll be able to prevent that. Customization can be switched off
with one mouse click in the UI of my add-in. In addition, I'll look into
providing a GPO to disable the add-in automatically.

Apparently Microsoft doesn't try to learn lessons from Linux
developers. The Gnome 2.0 interface introduced a menu based on an XML
scheme, but the Gnome Project failed to include a menu editor. Users
were left to edit the XML. Much fun, failure and flames ensued. This
bit of history is set to repeat when Office 2007 goes on sale.
Interesting. I didn't know about that one.

Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net