Password Crack

Nice fairy tale.

MafiaBoy was a Canadian teenager that perpetrated a DOS attack on Yahoo,
Dell, eBay, Amazon.com, etc. - not "hack(ing) IBM,MS,Governments etc.".

He was sentenced to 8 months in detention plus one year of probation,
which would have been up 2 years ago. His sentence didn't include any
long-term restriction on computer use.

His dad, btw, was arrested the same day as MafiaBoy was for taking out a
contract on a business colleague. Might that have anything to do with
anything?

Given that Content Advisor password removers are still sold, and free
hacks are still posted, if your 95 anecdote is true (I couldn't find
anything via Google, though it didn't sound unfamiliar), it certainly
didn't set much of a precedent.

How does one sue a newsgroup, anyway? Where and to whom would the suit
be served?


In article ,
"Peter Foldes" wrote:

Sorry to jump in here but how many of you remember the old Microsoft server
newsgroup MSNNEWS. This goes back to 95. It was moderated at the time.

There was a post there in 95 where someone posted that he set up the Content
Advisor so his kids will not be able to get into certain sites. Now he said
that he forgot the Password and needed help. He had numerous answers on how
to get around it and open it.

Well about a month later in the newspapers and TV there was the story that a
Father is suing MS and that newsgroup for telling his child on how to get rid
of that password . BTW he won the case and a large some of money.

The point is you do not know who is who and what is what.

Today that child that did that is not allowed near a computer for another 3
yrs. His nickname was the Mafia Boy. Yep the same one that made National and
International headlines when he hacked IBM,MS,Governments etc.

"David R. Norton MVP" wrote in message
...

"Harlan Grove" wrote in: ...

Then your experience is either severely outdated or unrepresentative.

No, you're just being argumentative.


What Harlan? Never! g
--
Sandy


Replace@mailinator with @tiscali.co.uk

Not a fairy tale at all and that teenager lives directly across the =
street from me here in Montreal (Ile Bizard). I was also quizzed by the =
authorities since my son is friends with him and he came over often and =
I was working with computers for a living. I had my systems at the time =
removed by the RCMP\FBI\Local Police and was retuned to me after 3 =
weeks. Was very embarrassing to all.=20

Like I said you never know who is who and what is what.

--=20
Peter

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

"JE McGimpsey" wrote in message =
...
Nice fairy tale.
=20
MafiaBoy was a Canadian teenager that perpetrated a DOS attack on =
Yahoo,=20
Dell, eBay, Amazon.com, etc. - not "hack(ing) IBM,MS,Governments =
etc.".
=20
He was sentenced to 8 months in detention plus one year of probation,=20
which would have been up 2 years ago. His sentence didn't include any=20
long-term restriction on computer use.
=20
His dad, btw, was arrested the same day as MafiaBoy was for taking out =
a=20
contract on a business colleague. Might that have anything to do with=20
anything?
=20
Given that Content Advisor password removers are still sold, and free=20
hacks are still posted, if your 95 anecdote is true (I couldn't find=20
anything via Google, though it didn't sound unfamiliar), it certainly=20
didn't set much of a precedent.
=20
How does one sue a newsgroup, anyway? Where and to whom would the suit =

be served?
=20
=20
In article ,
"Peter Foldes" wrote:
=20
Sorry to jump in here but how many of you remember the old Microsoft =
server =20
newsgroup MSNNEWS. This goes back to 95. It was moderated at the =
time.
=20
There was a post there in 95 where someone posted that he set up the =
Content=20
Advisor so his kids will not be able to get into certain sites. Now =
he said=20
that he forgot the Password and needed help. He had numerous answers =
on how=20
to get around it and open it.=20
=20
Well about a month later in the newspapers and TV there was the story =
that a=20
Father is suing MS and that newsgroup for telling his child on how to =
get rid=20
of that password . BTW he won the case and a large some of money.
=20
The point is you do not know who is who and what is what.
=20
Today that child that did that is not allowed near a computer for =
another 3=20
yrs. His nickname was the Mafia Boy. Yep the same one that made =
National and=20
International headlines when he hacked IBM,MS,Governments etc.

My answers are in line

MafiaBoy was a Canadian teenager that perpetrated a DOS attack on =
Yahoo,=20
Dell, eBay, Amazon.com, etc. - not "hack(ing) IBM,MS,Governments =
etc.".

Jeff was 14 yrs old at the time. And yes he did hack in there. The =
records on his HD when examined did show. That is why you had this =
commotion with top US law enforcement agencies also coming here. This is =
on record which is public and can be viewed here at the Palais of =
Justice by anyone

He was sentenced to 8 months in detention plus one year of probation,=20
which would have been up 2 years ago. His sentence didn't include any=20
long-term restriction on computer use

Yes it did. He has 3 more yrs left. He cannot come over here but my son =
goes over to his house.

He was sentenced to 8 months in detention plus one year of probation,=20

That was house detention and was able to go out for only schooling. His =
probation was for 4 yrs.


How does one sue a newsgroup, anyway? Where and to whom would the suit =

be served

Microsoft Canada was sued. Microsoft Canada has since been closed and is =
no longer here.
--=20
Peter

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

"JE McGimpsey" wrote in message =
...
Nice fairy tale.
=20
MafiaBoy was a Canadian teenager that perpetrated a DOS attack on =
Yahoo,=20
Dell, eBay, Amazon.com, etc. - not "hack(ing) IBM,MS,Governments =
etc.".
=20
He was sentenced to 8 months in detention plus one year of probation,=20
which would have been up 2 years ago. His sentence didn't include any=20
long-term restriction on computer use.
=20
His dad, btw, was arrested the same day as MafiaBoy was for taking out =
a=20
contract on a business colleague. Might that have anything to do with=20
anything?
=20
Given that Content Advisor password removers are still sold, and free=20
hacks are still posted, if your 95 anecdote is true (I couldn't find=20
anything via Google, though it didn't sound unfamiliar), it certainly=20
didn't set much of a precedent.
=20
How does one sue a newsgroup, anyway? Where and to whom would the suit =

be served?
=20
=20
In article ,
"Peter Foldes" wrote:
=20
Sorry to jump in here but how many of you remember the old Microsoft =
server =20
newsgroup MSNNEWS. This goes back to 95. It was moderated at the =
time.
=20
There was a post there in 95 where someone posted that he set up the =
Content=20
Advisor so his kids will not be able to get into certain sites. Now =
he said=20
that he forgot the Password and needed help. He had numerous answers =
on how=20
to get around it and open it.=20
=20
Well about a month later in the newspapers and TV there was the story =
that a=20
Father is suing MS and that newsgroup for telling his child on how to =
get rid=20
of that password . BTW he won the case and a large some of money.
=20
The point is you do not know who is who and what is what.
=20
Today that child that did that is not allowed near a computer for =
another 3=20
yrs. His nickname was the Mafia Boy. Yep the same one that made =
National and=20
International headlines when he hacked IBM,MS,Governments etc.

One more time, the point is someone has a password protected file and
asks this group how to remove the password protection. Several
people jump right in w/o ever asking if the OP has any right to the
file.

OK. Say someone asks if the OP had a right to the file. The OP replies
"yes, it's mine". Now what?

That's completely unacceptable.

Because...?? Are we obligated to ask questions that have no probative
value? Obligated by what or whom?

Anyone who password protects a file does so for a reason and someone
asking to breaking that protection is suspicious.

Assuming you meant "suspect", your syllogism is missing a premise. In
the *vast* majority of cases I've encountered, both in the newsgroups
and in my business, someone asking for help in removing protection has
a legitimate reason for doing so. That makes them in need of
assistance, not suspect.

If the OP had a right to the file, why didn't he ask the owner for the
password?

Assumption of facts not in evidence. Why do you *assume* the OP isn't
the owner?

Try reviewing the thread, the OP never ever stated any reason for wanting to
crack the file but some here just assumed he had a right to do so.

I can't vouch for anyone else, nor can I read their minds, but I didn't
assume anything one way or the other, because it doesn't matter. I'm
willing to help the legitimate user, and if the user has an illegitimate
purpose, the information I give is no more than what is already readily
available.

In article ,
"David R. Norton MVP" wrote:

The competency or lack thereof of the shops you've encountered isn't relative
to the discussion. There are shops that can do so.

Assuming you meant "relevant", you've still made no explanation for why
a computer shop should have any special authority or competency to
determine ownership of a file.

How many are willing to make house calls? How many are willing to
take on the liability for damages, including bonding? How many do
more than cursory background checks on their employees? How many
even have an interest in providing that service?

Every one I've ever encountered for businesses, not many for personal
computers

You've checked that they're willing to assume the liability? I'm not
sure that speaks very well of the shop owner's judgement. How much do
they charge for the service?

What kind of check do they do on their employees?

but it's not a major problem to haul a single box into the shop.

Guess your time isn't particularly valuable. What about those that live
100+ miles from the nearest "shop"?

How many computer shop employees know how to tell whether person A
has legal standing to open any particular file?

There's nothing difficult about it for anyone with a bit of
experience.

That's just daft. What is it about computer shop experience that gives
*any* special ability to determine legal issues? Most of the computer
repair people I know are no less susceptible to social engineering than
anyone else. As a small business owner, I wouldn't want to bet the
equity of my company on a repairman's credulity. The training I'd have
to give them wouldn't justify the expense, so I wouldn't provide that
service.

Hmmm...what authority is necessary? How do I know someone is "in
authority"?

Ridiculous comeback and you know it.

Have you ever run your own business? What authorization criteria did
your bonding company use when deciding whether to bond you for a job?
How about your insurance company - if there's risk involved in providing
the service, do you think they're going to insure you for professional
liability if you don't have some criterion for determining who can
authorize you to break the protection?

If you think this is ridiculous, then the corollary is that you think
there isn't much risk involved for the shop owner, which undermines your
insistence that there must be some additional layer between the user and
help.

So the person (not in authority) at the company site takes the file
home, and can have it unprotected just for the asking?

Nope. Not if the repair person has moderate intelligence and experience.

And here I thought you were suspicious. That claim isn't backed by every
day experience - people of moderate intelligence and experience are
socially engineered hourly. How much are you willing to bet that I
couldn't convince that moderately intelligent repairman that my claim is
valid?

Don't bother replying, I'm done with you.

Replies on newsgroups aren't necessarily personal - I'm mostly replying
to your argument, not you.

I just don't answer questions about how to break into files or where to find
bogus product IDs. There's no way to tell if the OP is telling the truth or
not when they say it's their file/program. If someone else chooses to
respond, that's their choice. I choose not to take the chance of aiding and
abetting.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]



"JE McGimpsey" wrote in message
...
One more time, the point is someone has a password protected file and
asks this group how to remove the password protection. Several
people jump right in w/o ever asking if the OP has any right to the
file.

OK. Say someone asks if the OP had a right to the file. The OP replies
"yes, it's mine". Now what?

That's completely unacceptable.

Because...?? Are we obligated to ask questions that have no probative
value? Obligated by what or whom?

Anyone who password protects a file does so for a reason and someone
asking to breaking that protection is suspicious.

Assuming you meant "suspect", your syllogism is missing a premise. In
the *vast* majority of cases I've encountered, both in the newsgroups
and in my business, someone asking for help in removing protection has
a legitimate reason for doing so. That makes them in need of
assistance, not suspect.

If the OP had a right to the file, why didn't he ask the owner for the
password?

Assumption of facts not in evidence. Why do you *assume* the OP isn't
the owner?

Try reviewing the thread, the OP never ever stated any reason for wanting
to
crack the file but some here just assumed he had a right to do so.

I can't vouch for anyone else, nor can I read their minds, but I didn't
assume anything one way or the other, because it doesn't matter. I'm
willing to help the legitimate user, and if the user has an illegitimate
purpose, the information I give is no more than what is already readily
available.

In article ,
"David R. Norton MVP" wrote:

The competency or lack thereof of the shops you've encountered isn't
relative
to the discussion. There are shops that can do so.

Assuming you meant "relevant", you've still made no explanation for why
a computer shop should have any special authority or competency to
determine ownership of a file.

How many are willing to make house calls? How many are willing to
take on the liability for damages, including bonding? How many do
more than cursory background checks on their employees? How many
even have an interest in providing that service?

Every one I've ever encountered for businesses, not many for personal
computers

You've checked that they're willing to assume the liability? I'm not
sure that speaks very well of the shop owner's judgement. How much do
they charge for the service?

What kind of check do they do on their employees?

but it's not a major problem to haul a single box into the shop.

Guess your time isn't particularly valuable. What about those that live
100+ miles from the nearest "shop"?

How many computer shop employees know how to tell whether person A
has legal standing to open any particular file?

There's nothing difficult about it for anyone with a bit of
experience.

That's just daft. What is it about computer shop experience that gives
*any* special ability to determine legal issues? Most of the computer
repair people I know are no less susceptible to social engineering than
anyone else. As a small business owner, I wouldn't want to bet the
equity of my company on a repairman's credulity. The training I'd have
to give them wouldn't justify the expense, so I wouldn't provide that
service.

Hmmm...what authority is necessary? How do I know someone is "in
authority"?

Ridiculous comeback and you know it.

Have you ever run your own business? What authorization criteria did
your bonding company use when deciding whether to bond you for a job?
How about your insurance company - if there's risk involved in providing
the service, do you think they're going to insure you for professional
liability if you don't have some criterion for determining who can
authorize you to break the protection?

If you think this is ridiculous, then the corollary is that you think
there isn't much risk involved for the shop owner, which undermines your
insistence that there must be some additional layer between the user and
help.

So the person (not in authority) at the company site takes the file
home, and can have it unprotected just for the asking?

Nope. Not if the repair person has moderate intelligence and experience.

And here I thought you were suspicious. That claim isn't backed by every
day experience - people of moderate intelligence and experience are
socially engineered hourly. How much are you willing to bet that I
couldn't convince that moderately intelligent repairman that my claim is
valid?

Don't bother replying, I'm done with you.

Replies on newsgroups aren't necessarily personal - I'm mostly replying
to your argument, not you.

Slam dunk.

(I'm sorry to hear that you were drawn into that mess.)

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]



"Peter Foldes" wrote in message
...
Not a fairy tale at all and that teenager lives directly across the street
from me here in Montreal (Ile Bizard). I was also quizzed by the authorities
since my son is friends with him and he came over often and I was working
with computers for a living. I had my systems at the time removed by the
RCMP\FBI\Local Police and was retuned to me after 3 weeks. Was very
embarrassing to all.

Like I said you never know who is who and what is what.

--
Peter

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

"JE McGimpsey" wrote in message
...
Nice fairy tale.

MafiaBoy was a Canadian teenager that perpetrated a DOS attack on Yahoo,
Dell, eBay, Amazon.com, etc. - not "hack(ing) IBM,MS,Governments etc.".

He was sentenced to 8 months in detention plus one year of probation,
which would have been up 2 years ago. His sentence didn't include any
long-term restriction on computer use.

His dad, btw, was arrested the same day as MafiaBoy was for taking out a
contract on a business colleague. Might that have anything to do with
anything?

Given that Content Advisor password removers are still sold, and free
hacks are still posted, if your 95 anecdote is true (I couldn't find
anything via Google, though it didn't sound unfamiliar), it certainly
didn't set much of a precedent.

How does one sue a newsgroup, anyway? Where and to whom would the suit
be served?


In article ,
"Peter Foldes" wrote:

Sorry to jump in here but how many of you remember the old Microsoft
server
newsgroup MSNNEWS. This goes back to 95. It was moderated at the time.

There was a post there in 95 where someone posted that he set up the
Content
Advisor so his kids will not be able to get into certain sites. Now he
said
that he forgot the Password and needed help. He had numerous answers on
how
to get around it and open it.

Well about a month later in the newspapers and TV there was the story
that a
Father is suing MS and that newsgroup for telling his child on how to get
rid
of that password . BTW he won the case and a large some of money.

The point is you do not know who is who and what is what.

Today that child that did that is not allowed near a computer for another
3
yrs. His nickname was the Mafia Boy. Yep the same one that made National
and
International headlines when he hacked IBM,MS,Governments etc.

The reason I was draw in is Jeff and my son usually played games on the =
computer in the basement here. So I was suspect for my computers were =
also possibly used as was his at his residence

--=20
Peter

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

"JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]" wrote in message =
news
Slam dunk.
=20
(I'm sorry to hear that you were drawn into that mess.)
=20
--=20
=20
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
=20
=20
=20
"Peter Foldes" wrote in message=20
...
Not a fairy tale at all and that teenager lives directly across the =
street=20
from me here in Montreal (Ile Bizard). I was also quizzed by the =
authorities=20
since my son is friends with him and he came over often and I was =
working=20
with computers for a living. I had my systems at the time removed by =
the=20
RCMP\FBI\Local Police and was retuned to me after 3 weeks. Was very=20
embarrassing to all.
=20
Like I said you never know who is who and what is what.
=20
--=20
Peter
=20
Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.
=20
"JE McGimpsey" wrote in message=20
...
Nice fairy tale.

MafiaBoy was a Canadian teenager that perpetrated a DOS attack on =
Yahoo,
Dell, eBay, Amazon.com, etc. - not "hack(ing) IBM,MS,Governments =
etc.".

He was sentenced to 8 months in detention plus one year of probation,
which would have been up 2 years ago. His sentence didn't include any
long-term restriction on computer use.

His dad, btw, was arrested the same day as MafiaBoy was for taking =
out a
contract on a business colleague. Might that have anything to do with
anything?

Given that Content Advisor password removers are still sold, and free
hacks are still posted, if your 95 anecdote is true (I couldn't find
anything via Google, though it didn't sound unfamiliar), it certainly
didn't set much of a precedent.

How does one sue a newsgroup, anyway? Where and to whom would the =
suit
be served?


In article ,
"Peter Foldes" wrote:

Sorry to jump in here but how many of you remember the old Microsoft =

server
newsgroup MSNNEWS. This goes back to 95. It was moderated at the =
time.

There was a post there in 95 where someone posted that he set up the =

Content
Advisor so his kids will not be able to get into certain sites. Now =
he=20
said
that he forgot the Password and needed help. He had numerous answers =
on=20
how
to get around it and open it.

Well about a month later in the newspapers and TV there was the =
story=20
that a
Father is suing MS and that newsgroup for telling his child on how =
to get=20
rid
of that password . BTW he won the case and a large some of money.

The point is you do not know who is who and what is what.

Today that child that did that is not allowed near a computer for =
another=20
3
yrs. His nickname was the Mafia Boy. Yep the same one that made =
National=20
and
International headlines when he hacked IBM,MS,Governments etc.=20
=20

In article ,
"Peter Foldes" wrote:

Jeff was 14 yrs old at the time.

Jeff? I thought it was Mike...

He was sentenced to 8 months in detention plus one year of probation,

That was house detention and was able to go out for only schooling. His
probation was for 4 yrs.

Then the probation was lengthened post-sentencing:

http://www.fbi.gov/libref/factsfigure/cybercrimes.htm

(and yup, I should have written "of" instead of "in")

How does one sue a newsgroup, anyway? Where and to whom would the suit
be served

Microsoft Canada was sued. Microsoft Canada has since been closed and is no
longer here.

Still can't find a cite...I'd have thought a decision like that would
have been widely reported.

I certainly respect that choice. I just get irritated with those who
censure others who make a different one. There are plenty of posts that
I don't respond to because they seem "off". But that's it - I don't tell
them they shouldn't be asking.

In article ,
"JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]" wrote:

I just don't answer questions about how to break into files or where to find
bogus product IDs. There's no way to tell if the OP is telling the truth or
not when they say it's their file/program. If someone else chooses to
respond, that's their choice. I choose not to take the chance of aiding and
abetting.