delivery receipt vs. read recipt

Hi,

I assume delivery receipt is different than read receipt (Outlook 2003), and
wondering if this is true?

Based on my understanding, delivery receipt is to inform if the e-mail has
been successfully delivered to the intended recipient, but should NOT ask
receipt to select if he/she "reads" the message.

However, I found that if I select "delivery receipt" option, recipient will
be prompted to select if he/she reads the message - which is something like
"read receipt".

Is there a way that I can fix this annoying problem?

PS1: This will happen to the first time when the recipient received the
message.

PS2: I am sure that I have not selected "read receipt".

Many thanks.

"xfile" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I assume delivery receipt is different than read receipt (Outlook 2003),
and wondering if this is true?

Based on my understanding, delivery receipt is to inform if the e-mail has
been successfully delivered to the intended recipient, but should NOT ask
receipt to select if he/she "reads" the message.

However, I found that if I select "delivery receipt" option, recipient
will be prompted to select if he/she reads the message - which is
something like "read receipt".

Is there a way that I can fix this annoying problem?

PS1: This will happen to the first time when the recipient received the
message.

PS2: I am sure that I have not selected "read receipt".


A delivery receipt is you asking the receiving mail server to send back
notification that it accepted your mail. All that says is the receiving
mail server got it, not that it was delivered to the recipient's mailbox or
that the recipient read it. Many mail servers will ignore delivery receipt
requests. Why? Because mail servers already send out NDR (non-delivery
reports) when delivery fails at the receiving mail server. They send out
negative reports on failures. They don't need to waste their resources to
also send out positive reports on succeeds. Some mail servers might
acknowledge a delivery receipt request (by sending a new mail which is the
delivery reciept) but many, if not most, will just ignore the superfluous
request. An NDR tells you that delivery failed. Neither a negative or
positive acknowledgement can be sent if the receiving mail server never got
the mail, so not getting the delivery receipt or an NDR could be because the
mail server never got the mail. The receiving mail server will only see the
"Delivery-Receipt-To:" if it wastes its time to look inside the e-mail and
interrogate the headers rather than just deliver it, if possible. Mail
servers are busy enough just ending and receiving mails without also have to
deal with superfluous delivery receipts (i.e., positive acknowledgements).
E-mail is not a guaranteed communications medium.

A read receipt is a new mail sent back by the recipient's mail program to
notify the sender via e-mail that the recipient opened the message. It
doesn't mean the recipient read it, only that it got opened. The sender
added the "Read-Receipt-To:" header which the recipient's e-mail client sees
but only after opening the message whereupon the configuration of that
e-mail client dictates what, if any, action is taken for that header. The
recipient can configure their mail program on how to handle these requests:
ignore them, answer them, or prompt the user to ask whether to ignore or
answer them. Most users will configure their mail client to ignore them, so
your request for a read receipt gets ignored. Most users are not interested
in acknowledging their true e-mail address to spammers.

A delivery receipt is NOT sent when the recipient reads the message. It is
a request directed at the recipient's mail server and, as it is named, only
denotes delivery. Like a confirmation notices from UPS that your package
got delivered, it says nothing about the recipient of your package actually
opening that package or that the recipient actually got the package. A read
receipt is acknowledgement from the recipient's e-mail client that the mail
was opened by the recipient.

--
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Hi,

Thanks for the detailed explanations, and sorry for my not-so-clear
explanations.

A second thought after reading your comments, I decided that it may be a
good practice for cancelling delivery receipt (which I know it is different
than read receipt and the later one is to be opened not assured to be read).

It is just an old habit that I have kept for many years for the delivery
receipt to ensure that the mailed has been successfully reached the address,
and in some rare cases, can be used as an evidence to prove a message has
been mailed.

But I still don't understand for why would it prompt to ask the recipient to
click if as of a read receipt?

I also tried this by using a new personal e-mail account and it indeed asked
me for "the sender requested...".

I am sure that I did not select the "read receipt" option before I sent out
the test message.

Others also told me the same when they first received my mail message.

Interesting enough is if I deselect "delivery receipt", it then will not
prompt for the same question.

Could it be a server-side settings or it's Outlook settings?

Thanks again.


"Vanguard" wrote in message
...
"xfile" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I assume delivery receipt is different than read receipt (Outlook 2003),
and wondering if this is true?

Based on my understanding, delivery receipt is to inform if the e-mail
has been successfully delivered to the intended recipient, but should NOT
ask receipt to select if he/she "reads" the message.

However, I found that if I select "delivery receipt" option, recipient
will be prompted to select if he/she reads the message - which is
something like "read receipt".

Is there a way that I can fix this annoying problem?

PS1: This will happen to the first time when the recipient received the
message.

PS2: I am sure that I have not selected "read receipt".


A delivery receipt is you asking the receiving mail server to send back
notification that it accepted your mail. All that says is the receiving
mail server got it, not that it was delivered to the recipient's mailbox
or that the recipient read it. Many mail servers will ignore delivery
receipt requests. Why? Because mail servers already send out NDR
(non-delivery reports) when delivery fails at the receiving mail server.
They send out negative reports on failures. They don't need to waste
their resources to also send out positive reports on succeeds. Some mail
servers might acknowledge a delivery receipt request (by sending a new
mail which is the delivery reciept) but many, if not most, will just
ignore the superfluous request. An NDR tells you that delivery failed.
Neither a negative or positive acknowledgement can be sent if the
receiving mail server never got the mail, so not getting the delivery
receipt or an NDR could be because the mail server never got the mail.
The receiving mail server will only see the "Delivery-Receipt-To:" if it
wastes its time to look inside the e-mail and interrogate the headers
rather than just deliver it, if possible. Mail servers are busy enough
just ending and receiving mails without also have to deal with superfluous
delivery receipts (i.e., positive acknowledgements). E-mail is not a
guaranteed communications medium.

A read receipt is a new mail sent back by the recipient's mail program to
notify the sender via e-mail that the recipient opened the message. It
doesn't mean the recipient read it, only that it got opened. The sender
added the "Read-Receipt-To:" header which the recipient's e-mail client
sees but only after opening the message whereupon the configuration of
that e-mail client dictates what, if any, action is taken for that header.
The recipient can configure their mail program on how to handle these
requests: ignore them, answer them, or prompt the user to ask whether to
ignore or answer them. Most users will configure their mail client to
ignore them, so your request for a read receipt gets ignored. Most users
are not interested in acknowledging their true e-mail address to spammers.

A delivery receipt is NOT sent when the recipient reads the message. It
is a request directed at the recipient's mail server and, as it is named,
only denotes delivery. Like a confirmation notices from UPS that your
package got delivered, it says nothing about the recipient of your package
actually opening that package or that the recipient actually got the
package. A read receipt is acknowledgement from the recipient's e-mail
client that the mail was opened by the recipient.

--
__________________________________________________ _____
** Post replies to the newsgroup. Share with others. **
For e-mail, remove "NIX" and append "#VC811" to Subject.
__________________________________________________ _____

"xfile" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Thanks for the detailed explanations, and sorry for my not-so-clear
explanations.

A second thought after reading your comments, I decided that it may be a
good practice for cancelling delivery receipt (which I know it is
different than read receipt and the later one is to be opened not assured
to be read).

It is just an old habit that I have kept for many years for the delivery
receipt to ensure that the mailed has been successfully reached the
address, and in some rare cases, can be used as an evidence to prove a
message has been mailed.

But I still don't understand for why would it prompt to ask the recipient
to click if as of a read receipt?

I also tried this by using a new personal e-mail account and it indeed
asked me for "the sender requested...".

I am sure that I did not select the "read receipt" option before I sent
out the test message.

Others also told me the same when they first received my mail message.

Interesting enough is if I deselect "delivery receipt", it then will not
prompt for the same question.

Could it be a server-side settings or it's Outlook settings?

Thanks again.


"Vanguard" wrote in message
...
"xfile" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I assume delivery receipt is different than read receipt (Outlook 2003),
and wondering if this is true?

Based on my understanding, delivery receipt is to inform if the e-mail
has been successfully delivered to the intended recipient, but should
NOT ask receipt to select if he/she "reads" the message.

However, I found that if I select "delivery receipt" option, recipient
will be prompted to select if he/she reads the message - which is
something like "read receipt".

Is there a way that I can fix this annoying problem?

PS1: This will happen to the first time when the recipient received the
message.

PS2: I am sure that I have not selected "read receipt".


A delivery receipt is you asking the receiving mail server to send back
notification that it accepted your mail. All that says is the receiving
mail server got it, not that it was delivered to the recipient's mailbox
or that the recipient read it. Many mail servers will ignore delivery
receipt requests. Why? Because mail servers already send out NDR
(non-delivery reports) when delivery fails at the receiving mail server.
They send out negative reports on failures. They don't need to waste
their resources to also send out positive reports on succeeds. Some mail
servers might acknowledge a delivery receipt request (by sending a new
mail which is the delivery reciept) but many, if not most, will just
ignore the superfluous request. An NDR tells you that delivery failed.
Neither a negative or positive acknowledgement can be sent if the
receiving mail server never got the mail, so not getting the delivery
receipt or an NDR could be because the mail server never got the mail.
The receiving mail server will only see the "Delivery-Receipt-To:" if it
wastes its time to look inside the e-mail and interrogate the headers
rather than just deliver it, if possible. Mail servers are busy enough
just ending and receiving mails without also have to deal with
superfluous delivery receipts (i.e., positive acknowledgements). E-mail
is not a guaranteed communications medium.

A read receipt is a new mail sent back by the recipient's mail program to
notify the sender via e-mail that the recipient opened the message. It
doesn't mean the recipient read it, only that it got opened. The sender
added the "Read-Receipt-To:" header which the recipient's e-mail client
sees but only after opening the message whereupon the configuration of
that e-mail client dictates what, if any, action is taken for that
header. The recipient can configure their mail program on how to handle
these requests: ignore them, answer them, or prompt the user to ask
whether to ignore or answer them. Most users will configure their mail
client to ignore them, so your request for a read receipt gets ignored.
Most users are not interested in acknowledging their true e-mail address
to spammers.

A delivery receipt is NOT sent when the recipient reads the message. It
is a request directed at the recipient's mail server and, as it is named,
only denotes delivery. Like a confirmation notices from UPS that your
package got delivered, it says nothing about the recipient of your
package actually opening that package or that the recipient actually got
the package. A read receipt is acknowledgement from the recipient's
e-mail client that the mail was opened by the recipient.

--
__________________________________________________ _____
** Post replies to the newsgroup. Share with others. **
For e-mail, remove "NIX" and append "#VC811" to Subject.
__________________________________________________ _____





Apparently Microsoft doesn't understand many of the headers used in Internet
mail according to RFCs. As a test, I sent an e-mail to my Yahoo account
that was set to send a delivery reciept. I got the mail and used the Yahoo
webmail interface to look at the headers. Instead of Outlook adding the:

Delivery-Receipt-To:

header, it instead added the:

Return-Receipt-To:

header. I then sent another test mail from Outlook to my Yahoo account with
the read receipt option selected. That one had the header:

Disposition-Notification-To:

instead of the header:

Read-Receipt-To:

I hunted around for the definitions of these headers, which a

Read-Receipt-To
Address to which notifications are to be sent and a request to get delivery
notifications.
(non-standard, discouraged)

Return-Receipt-To
Address to which notifications are to be sent and a request to get delivery
notifications.
(non-standard, discouraged)

Generate-Delivery-Report
(I thought it was Delivery-Receipt-To)
Whether a delivery report is wanted at successful delivery.
RFC 2156, appendix C

Disposition-Notification-To
Requests for notification when the message is received, and specifies the
address for them.
RFC 2298, section 2

For read receipts, Microsoft is using the correct header
(Disposition-Notification-To). For delivery receipts, Microsoft is using a
non-standard and discouraged header (Return-Receipt-To) which is probably
interpreted as a read receipt request rather than a delivery receipt
request.

So, a read receipt request added by Outlook should work okay. However, a
delivery receipt request added by Outlook may produce varied results
depending on how the receiving mail server interprets that non-standard
header. Although I showed the above definition for the Read-Receipt-To
header, another is just:

Read-Receipt-To
Address for notifications to be sent.

Well, that doesn't say WHAT type of notification is being requested by the
sender. Microsoft got it wrong again. I've seen some folks claim that RFC
2156 defines the Read-Receipt-To header, but that RFC does *not* define that
header, nor the RFC 822 updated by this RFC.

--
__________________________________________________ _____
** Post replies to the newsgroup. Share with others. **
For e-mail, remove "NIX" and append "#VC811" to Subject.
__________________________________________________ _____

Hi,

Appreciate your kind efforts which not only clarified my puzzles but also
helped me to learn a lot.

I guess the non-standard header is the reason caused the issue (and I have
no ideas for how many people have been bothered by my mails in the past).

Based on your information, I guess it'd be better for me to disable
"delivery" receipt along with the "read" receipt, and only to use "Sent
Copies" as future references.

The question for sent copies is that it can not prove the mail has been
"successfully delivered" to the intended address. In other words, other
than for our own copies, it can only prove the "mail" has been sent but the
address may or may not have received it.

Once a while, I did find "delivery receipt" is a good way to stop people
from telling you that the mail "may have lost" in the net.

Again, many thanks and really appreciate your kind efforts.


"Vanguard" wrote in message
...
"xfile" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Thanks for the detailed explanations, and sorry for my not-so-clear
explanations.

A second thought after reading your comments, I decided that it may be a
good practice for cancelling delivery receipt (which I know it is
different than read receipt and the later one is to be opened not assured
to be read).

It is just an old habit that I have kept for many years for the delivery
receipt to ensure that the mailed has been successfully reached the
address, and in some rare cases, can be used as an evidence to prove a
message has been mailed.

But I still don't understand for why would it prompt to ask the recipient
to click if as of a read receipt?

I also tried this by using a new personal e-mail account and it indeed
asked me for "the sender requested...".

I am sure that I did not select the "read receipt" option before I sent
out the test message.

Others also told me the same when they first received my mail message.

Interesting enough is if I deselect "delivery receipt", it then will not
prompt for the same question.

Could it be a server-side settings or it's Outlook settings?

Thanks again.


"Vanguard" wrote in message
...
"xfile" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I assume delivery receipt is different than read receipt (Outlook
2003), and wondering if this is true?

Based on my understanding, delivery receipt is to inform if the e-mail
has been successfully delivered to the intended recipient, but should
NOT ask receipt to select if he/she "reads" the message.

However, I found that if I select "delivery receipt" option, recipient
will be prompted to select if he/she reads the message - which is
something like "read receipt".

Is there a way that I can fix this annoying problem?

PS1: This will happen to the first time when the recipient received the
message.

PS2: I am sure that I have not selected "read receipt".


A delivery receipt is you asking the receiving mail server to send back
notification that it accepted your mail. All that says is the receiving
mail server got it, not that it was delivered to the recipient's mailbox
or that the recipient read it. Many mail servers will ignore delivery
receipt requests. Why? Because mail servers already send out NDR
(non-delivery reports) when delivery fails at the receiving mail server.
They send out negative reports on failures. They don't need to waste
their resources to also send out positive reports on succeeds. Some
mail servers might acknowledge a delivery receipt request (by sending a
new mail which is the delivery reciept) but many, if not most, will just
ignore the superfluous request. An NDR tells you that delivery failed.
Neither a negative or positive acknowledgement can be sent if the
receiving mail server never got the mail, so not getting the delivery
receipt or an NDR could be because the mail server never got the mail.
The receiving mail server will only see the "Delivery-Receipt-To:" if it
wastes its time to look inside the e-mail and interrogate the headers
rather than just deliver it, if possible. Mail servers are busy enough
just ending and receiving mails without also have to deal with
superfluous delivery receipts (i.e., positive acknowledgements). E-mail
is not a guaranteed communications medium.

A read receipt is a new mail sent back by the recipient's mail program
to notify the sender via e-mail that the recipient opened the message.
It doesn't mean the recipient read it, only that it got opened. The
sender added the "Read-Receipt-To:" header which the recipient's e-mail
client sees but only after opening the message whereupon the
configuration of that e-mail client dictates what, if any, action is
taken for that header. The recipient can configure their mail program on
how to handle these requests: ignore them, answer them, or prompt the
user to ask whether to ignore or answer them. Most users will configure
their mail client to ignore them, so your request for a read receipt
gets ignored. Most users are not interested in acknowledging their true
e-mail address to spammers.

A delivery receipt is NOT sent when the recipient reads the message. It
is a request directed at the recipient's mail server and, as it is
named, only denotes delivery. Like a confirmation notices from UPS that
your package got delivered, it says nothing about the recipient of your
package actually opening that package or that the recipient actually got
the package. A read receipt is acknowledgement from the recipient's
e-mail client that the mail was opened by the recipient.

--
__________________________________________________ _____
** Post replies to the newsgroup. Share with others. **
For e-mail, remove "NIX" and append "#VC811" to Subject.
__________________________________________________ _____





Apparently Microsoft doesn't understand many of the headers used in
Internet mail according to RFCs. As a test, I sent an e-mail to my Yahoo
account that was set to send a delivery reciept. I got the mail and used
the Yahoo webmail interface to look at the headers. Instead of Outlook
adding the:

Delivery-Receipt-To:

header, it instead added the:

Return-Receipt-To:

header. I then sent another test mail from Outlook to my Yahoo account
with the read receipt option selected. That one had the header:

Disposition-Notification-To:

instead of the header:

Read-Receipt-To:

I hunted around for the definitions of these headers, which a

Read-Receipt-To
Address to which notifications are to be sent and a request to get
delivery notifications.
(non-standard, discouraged)

Return-Receipt-To
Address to which notifications are to be sent and a request to get
delivery notifications.
(non-standard, discouraged)

Generate-Delivery-Report
(I thought it was Delivery-Receipt-To)
Whether a delivery report is wanted at successful delivery.
RFC 2156, appendix C

Disposition-Notification-To
Requests for notification when the message is received, and specifies the
address for them.
RFC 2298, section 2

For read receipts, Microsoft is using the correct header
(Disposition-Notification-To). For delivery receipts, Microsoft is using
a non-standard and discouraged header (Return-Receipt-To) which is
probably interpreted as a read receipt request rather than a delivery
receipt request.

So, a read receipt request added by Outlook should work okay. However, a
delivery receipt request added by Outlook may produce varied results
depending on how the receiving mail server interprets that non-standard
header. Although I showed the above definition for the Read-Receipt-To
header, another is just:

Read-Receipt-To
Address for notifications to be sent.

Well, that doesn't say WHAT type of notification is being requested by the
sender. Microsoft got it wrong again. I've seen some folks claim that
RFC 2156 defines the Read-Receipt-To header, but that RFC does *not*
define that header, nor the RFC 822 updated by this RFC.

--
__________________________________________________ _____
** Post replies to the newsgroup. Share with others. **
For e-mail, remove "NIX" and append "#VC811" to Subject.
__________________________________________________ _____

"xfile" wrote in message
...

The question for sent copies is that it can not prove the mail has been
"successfully delivered" to the intended address. In other words, other
than for our own copies, it can only prove the "mail" has been sent but
the address may or may not have received it.

Delivery receipts are not proof at all, anyway. Getting your mail to a
receiving mail server is not proof that the recipient got the mail. Proving
that you sent something is worthless. I can "say" that I mailed a letter
simply because it is no longer on my desk but what I did was toss it out the
window so it never got delivered to the recipient. When you pay your bills,
the company doesn't care that you put the envelope in a mailbox but only
that they actually got your check. Picking up the phone and dialing
someone's number and hearing it ring is NOT getting your message to that
person. Unless you can prove that the mail server that sent the delivery
receipt was actually operated by the recipient (i.e., they ran their own
mail server), the delivery receipt is not proof that your mail got delivered
to the recipient.

Once a while, I did find "delivery receipt" is a good way to stop people
from telling you that the mail "may have lost" in the net.

Losing mail at the mail server is still losing it in the net. It had to get
lost *somewhere* and the receiving mail server also qualifies. If you need
guaranteed and provable delivery of e-mail, there are services you can
subscribe for that.

If you are sending to recipients within your own company, you can require
read receipts be acknowledged (i.e., enabled) by establishing a policy that
says they must do so and violation is cause for punitive action, like
termination of employment. I believe the Exchange server can be configured
that read receipts are not sent outside the company, or filtering can be
used to remove the header. However, that only shows that the e-mail
*program* happened to open the mail, and that could be because it was the
first one on the top of the message list pane so it got previewed when the
user opened Outlook but the user was busy and had to immediately use some
other feature of Outlook, like schedule a conference room right now to
ensure no one else would schedule it during the meeting, and they leave so
they never did read your message. Ask the recipient to send back a message
to show they actually read it.