Publisher Question

On 12/1/06 7:17 PM, in article , "JoAnn
Paules [MVP]" wrote:

Can you send the file over to me? If so, send it to jl dot paules at gmail
dot com.


Having done large format output it is like JoAnn said, the proportions are
wrong for enlarging to your desired size. Regardless of that fact it is
entirely within the printers ability to enlarge the document on their end.
They're just not wanting to do that. It is simple as that.

Think of it this way. We used to output billboards on 60 inch wide tiles, I
forget how long they were. Imagine what the files would be like if we had to
create the art at that size. The art was designed at a smaller, proportional
size and we enlarged it to the final specified size.

So it's a lazy printer or the person you're dealing with doesn't
understand/know the options that *they* have available. You could always
calculate the enlargement yourself and tell them to enlarge it when x-amount
when they print it.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Apago, Calls, Gradual & Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 618-2537 - Cell
(720) 367-3869 - eFax


Come visit me at:

http://www.mattbeals.com
http://www.actionlistexchange.net
http://www.mattbeals.com/blog/

Friends don't let friends write HTML email

Her proportions were close tho. 1.29 to 1.25.

(Warning: Bragging ahead.)
My printer would have called me and told me that to the poster to look right
it would end up being whatever size and ask if that was okay. He's
phenomenal. As a matter of fact, I'm headed there in about 20 minutes to
drop off a print job for work. I think I need to tell them that again.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

~~~~~
How to ask a question
http://support.microsoft.com/KB/555375




"Matt Beals" wrote in message
...
On 12/1/06 7:17 PM, in article ,
"JoAnn
Paules [MVP]" wrote:

Can you send the file over to me? If so, send it to jl dot paules at
gmail
dot com.


Having done large format output it is like JoAnn said, the proportions are
wrong for enlarging to your desired size. Regardless of that fact it is
entirely within the printers ability to enlarge the document on their end.
They're just not wanting to do that. It is simple as that.

Think of it this way. We used to output billboards on 60 inch wide tiles,
I
forget how long they were. Imagine what the files would be like if we had
to
create the art at that size. The art was designed at a smaller,
proportional
size and we enlarged it to the final specified size.

So it's a lazy printer or the person you're dealing with doesn't
understand/know the options that *they* have available. You could always
calculate the enlargement yourself and tell them to enlarge it when
x-amount
when they print it.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Apago, Calls, Gradual & Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 618-2537 - Cell
(720) 367-3869 - eFax


Come visit me at:

http://www.mattbeals.com
http://www.actionlistexchange.net
http://www.mattbeals.com/blog/

Friends don't let friends write HTML email

You obviously have a great relationship with your printer. Having been on
the receiving end of the compliments it really is gratifying. Once you have
one of those relationships with a printer you know you have a partner for
your projects. And that's invaluable.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Apago, Calls, Gradual & Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 618-2537 - Cell
(720) 367-3869 - eFax


Come visit me at:

http://www.mattbeals.com
http://www.actionlistexchange.net
http://www.mattbeals.com/blog/

Friends don't let friends write HTML email
On 12/2/06 5:40 AM, in article , "JoAnn
Paules [MVP]" wrote:

Her proportions were close tho. 1.29 to 1.25.

(Warning: Bragging ahead.)
My printer would have called me and told me that to the poster to look right
it would end up being whatever size and ask if that was okay. He's
phenomenal. As a matter of fact, I'm headed there in about 20 minutes to
drop off a print job for work. I think I need to tell them that again.

My printer was there when I stopped in today. I told him what the situation
was with the OP. He said he would have called and asked me what size I
needed and where should he crop it.

He's a great guy and has prices that are as good if not better than
self-serve...which they also offer.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

~~~~~
How to ask a question
http://support.microsoft.com/KB/555375




"Matt Beals" wrote in message
...
You obviously have a great relationship with your printer. Having been on
the receiving end of the compliments it really is gratifying. Once you
have
one of those relationships with a printer you know you have a partner for
your projects. And that's invaluable.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Apago, Calls, Gradual & Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 618-2537 - Cell
(720) 367-3869 - eFax


Come visit me at:

http://www.mattbeals.com
http://www.actionlistexchange.net
http://www.mattbeals.com/blog/

Friends don't let friends write HTML email
On 12/2/06 5:40 AM, in article ,
"JoAnn
Paules [MVP]" wrote:

Her proportions were close tho. 1.29 to 1.25.

(Warning: Bragging ahead.)
My printer would have called me and told me that to the poster to look
right
it would end up being whatever size and ask if that was okay. He's
phenomenal. As a matter of fact, I'm headed there in about 20 minutes to
drop off a print job for work. I think I need to tell them that again.

Matt,

Regardless of that fact it is entirely within the printers ability
to enlarge the document on their end. They're just not wanting to do
that. It is simple as that.

'Fraid not. Yep, they could could enlarge it, and all those 96 dpi
images would be about60 dpi - great for printing, huh?

So it's a lazy printer or the person you're dealing with doesn't
understand/know the options that *they* have available. You could always
calculate the enlargement yourself and tell them to enlarge it when
x-amount when they print it.

Sounds to me like it is a printer that wants his/her output to look
decent, one who doesn't want to spend hours resampling images and text
to output at a larger size. No way could it be the fault of an idiot
designer who doesn't submit vector files that can be enlarge without
degradation. Nope, lazy printers - that's the answer.

Mike

Matt Beals wrote:

On 12/1/06 7:17 PM, in article , "JoAnn
Paules [MVP]" wrote:


Can you send the file over to me? If so, send it to jl dot paules at gmail
dot com.



Having done large format output it is like JoAnn said, the proportions are
wrong for enlarging to your desired size. Regardless of that fact it is
entirely within the printers ability to enlarge the document on their end.
They're just not wanting to do that. It is simple as that.

Think of it this way. We used to output billboards on 60 inch wide tiles, I
forget how long they were. Imagine what the files would be like if we had to
create the art at that size. The art was designed at a smaller, proportional
size and we enlarged it to the final specified size.

So it's a lazy printer or the person you're dealing with doesn't
understand/know the options that *they* have available. You could always
calculate the enlargement yourself and tell them to enlarge it when x-amount
when they print it.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Apago, Calls, Gradual & Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 618-2537 - Cell
(720) 367-3869 - eFax


Come visit me at:

http://www.mattbeals.com
http://www.actionlistexchange.net
http://www.mattbeals.com/blog/

Friends don't let friends write HTML email

See inline responses please.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Apago, Calls, Gradual & Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 618-2537 - Cell
(720) 367-3869 - eFax


Come visit me at:

http://www.mattbeals.com
http://www.actionlistexchange.net
http://www.mattbeals.com/blog/

Friends don't let friends write HTML email


On 12/2/06 5:34 PM, in article , "Mike
Koewler" wrote:

Matt,

Regardless of that fact it is entirely within the printers ability
to enlarge the document on their end. They're just not wanting to do
that. It is simple as that.

'Fraid not. Yep, they could could enlarge it, and all those 96 dpi
images would be about60 dpi - great for printing, huh?

Yes, that's true. All the images would become lower resolution because
you are enlarging rather than reducing. But if we're talking about large
format output and posters then they aren't meant to be viewed from less than
18 to 24 inches. So the low resolution will be compensated by the eyes
because your eyes will not be able to see the pixelization as well as it
could if the viewing distance was shorter. How do you think billboards are
printed? We're not dealing with forty foot wide 300 dpi images which would
be tens if not hundreds of gigabytes in size. Posters don't need to be
created at full size, proportionally yes so that they can be enlarged.
Otherwise the file size becomes unmanageable for many people very quickly.
You're more often than not dealing with images that are under 150 dpi. And
at 18 to 24 inches they look *really* bad. But that the intended viewing
distance they look perfect. Eyes are funny things... They love to play
tricks on the brain. Or is it the other way around? Either way, you can't
entirely trust them. Most of the inkjet printers use a form of stochastic
screening or dithering to fool the eye into thinking that the image being
produced is continuous tone. Which is precisely what halftone are supposed
to do. Funny how that works....

So it's a lazy printer or the person you're dealing with doesn't
understand/know the options that *they* have available. You could always
calculate the enlargement yourself and tell them to enlarge it when
x-amount when they print it.

Sounds to me like it is a printer that wants his/her output to look
decent, one who doesn't want to spend hours resampling images and text
to output at a larger size. No way could it be the fault of an idiot
designer who doesn't submit vector files that can be enlarge without
degradation. Nope, lazy printers - that's the answer.

Resampling images up will do nothing for you but at bulk to a job. All
you will be doing is resampling the existing image with more pixels to
describe the existing pixels. It won't add any quality. If anything it will
soften the image. Upsampling only works up to about 150% without the use of
fractal imaging plug-ins or tools. Even then the effective "quality" is
relative to the original image and the viewing distance. See how viewing
distance keeps coming up? The job that I had printed using 10 micron
stochastic screening was beautiful. Except for the pixels that I could see
from the 300 dpi image I was using. Upsampling that to 1200 DPI on a 35x42
job wouldn't have done me any good. And considering the viewing distance of
the poster, no one would even know.

It's true that vector art will always reproduce better because of its
inherent nature, mathematical formulas and postscript commands to describe
an otherwise ethereal object or group of objects. Raster images don't have
those benefits. There is a practical limit to what you can do with a raster
object for this kind of purpose. It is the "point of diminishing returns".
When is there enough without being over kill? When I've designed billboards
and other large format (and 24 x 36 does qualify as large format) you need
to keep in mind those practical limits. It's about managing expectations and
understanding the target audience.

In general I would challenge some to a blind test to differentiate a 200 dpi
image to a 300 dpi image. In most cases the average person can't tell the
difference. To who's eye are we judging the quality? The person designing it
or the person viewing? If it's not pleasing to the viewer then the designer
hasn't done their job.

It's all about managing expectations and understanding the target audience.

Mike

Matt Beals wrote:

On 12/1/06 7:17 PM, in article , "JoAnn
Paules [MVP]" wrote:


Can you send the file over to me? If so, send it to jl dot paules at gmail
dot com.



Having done large format output it is like JoAnn said, the proportions are
wrong for enlarging to your desired size. Regardless of that fact it is
entirely within the printers ability to enlarge the document on their end.
They're just not wanting to do that. It is simple as that.

Think of it this way. We used to output billboards on 60 inch wide tiles, I
forget how long they were. Imagine what the files would be like if we had to
create the art at that size. The art was designed at a smaller, proportional
size and we enlarged it to the final specified size.

So it's a lazy printer or the person you're dealing with doesn't
understand/know the options that *they* have available. You could always
calculate the enlargement yourself and tell them to enlarge it when x-amount
when they print it.

Matt Beals

On 12/2/06 5:33 PM, in article , "JoAnn
Paules [MVP]" wrote:

My printer was there when I stopped in today. I told him what the situation
was with the OP. He said he would have called and asked me what size I
needed and where should he crop it.

He's a great guy and has prices that are as good if not better than
self-serve...which they also offer.


See?? This is a smart printer! I don't know who they are but I love them
already. They understand their target audience and know how to manage their
expectations; providing good service and working on behalf of their
customers. This is the kind of service any printer is capable of providing.
The "boutique shops" I work with service the customer. In doing so they
build strong relationships that are long lasting and profitable. That's how
you succeed. I've worked with bigger commercial shops and my customers and
I can't get the same level of service. Regardless of the prices service
sells first. Having spend almost ten million on printing and paper I can
tell you service comes before price. Prices can always come down, service
hardly ever goes up.


Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Apago, Calls, Gradual & Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 618-2537 - Cell
(720) 367-3869 - eFax


Come visit me at:

http://www.mattbeals.com
http://www.actionlistexchange.net
http://www.mattbeals.com/blog/

Friends don't let friends write HTML email

Matt Beals wrote:
On 12/2/06 5:33 PM, in article , "JoAnn
Paules [MVP]" wrote:

My printer was there when I stopped in today. I told him what the situation
was with the OP. He said he would have called and asked me what size I
needed and where should he crop it.

He's a great guy and has prices that are as good if not better than
self-serve...which they also offer.


See?? This is a smart printer! I don't know who they are but I love them
already. They understand their target audience and know how to manage their
expectations; providing good service and working on behalf of their
customers. This is the kind of service any printer is capable of providing.
The "boutique shops" I work with service the customer. In doing so they
build strong relationships that are long lasting and profitable. That's how
you succeed. I've worked with bigger commercial shops and my customers and
I can't get the same level of service. Regardless of the prices service
sells first. Having spend almost ten million on printing and paper I can
tell you service comes before price. Prices can always come down, service
hardly ever goes up.


Matt Beals
Consultant

For too many years I worked as a traffic manager at various TV/video
post production studios and the questions I had for clients(major ad
agencies, production studios, etc) were basically...
"what do you want to do with the final product??"
"Is it for broadcast? or demo?"
"Do you need stereo or mono?"
yada yada yada

usually the response was, "duh, yeah whatever you think."

My observation is that the end user (client) usually has no idea what
they need only what they want and there's a big difference between the
two

Gee I just made no sense

Steve

It's been a five year process to get to the point where I am now with my
printer. In the past I was giving them about $1200 woth of business a year.
I recently had them print the handbooks I created for a national seminar.
That was a $2400 job. The results were, as usual, excellent.

He can do long-distance service if anyone needs. They can do it all from
printing to mailing. ;-)

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

~~~~~
How to ask a question
http://support.microsoft.com/KB/555375




"Steve in NC" wrote in message
ink.net...
Matt Beals wrote:
On 12/2/06 5:33 PM, in article ,
"JoAnn
Paules [MVP]" wrote:

My printer was there when I stopped in today. I told him what the
situation
was with the OP. He said he would have called and asked me what size I
needed and where should he crop it.

He's a great guy and has prices that are as good if not better than
self-serve...which they also offer.


See?? This is a smart printer! I don't know who they are but I love them
already. They understand their target audience and know how to manage
their
expectations; providing good service and working on behalf of their
customers. This is the kind of service any printer is capable of
providing.
The "boutique shops" I work with service the customer. In doing so they
build strong relationships that are long lasting and profitable. That's
how
you succeed. I've worked with bigger commercial shops and my customers
and
I can't get the same level of service. Regardless of the prices service
sells first. Having spend almost ten million on printing and paper I can
tell you service comes before price. Prices can always come down, service
hardly ever goes up.


Matt Beals
Consultant

For too many years I worked as a traffic manager at various TV/video post
production studios and the questions I had for clients(major ad agencies,
production studios, etc) were basically...
"what do you want to do with the final product??"
"Is it for broadcast? or demo?"
"Do you need stereo or mono?"
yada yada yada

usually the response was, "duh, yeah whatever you think."

My observation is that the end user (client) usually has no idea what they
need only what they want and there's a big difference between the two

Gee I just made no sense

Steve

Well, regarding your point. Here's the way I look at it. "Fine art", isn't
that a subjective term..., is judged by experts on its technical merits. The
brush strokes, imagery, texture, etc. However the "general observer"
appreciates the contents. They don't care about the technical merits, they
care that it "speaks to them". And if it is mediocre copy by a third year
art student who cares? It still "speaks to them" as the original would.

The average person doesn't know good design, they know bad design.
The average person doesn't know good color, they know bad color.
The average person doesn't know good printing, they know bad printing.

I could continue on but I think everyone gets the point.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Apago, Calls, Gradual & Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 618-2537 - Cell
(720) 367-3869 - eFax


Come visit me at:

http://www.mattbeals.com
http://www.actionlistexchange.net
http://www.mattbeals.com/blog/

Friends don't let friends write HTML email

On 12/2/06 7:55 PM, in article
et, "Steve in NC"
wrote:



For too many years I worked as a traffic manager at various TV/video
post production studios and the questions I had for clients(major ad
agencies, production studios, etc) were basically...
"what do you want to do with the final product??"
"Is it for broadcast? or demo?"
"Do you need stereo or mono?"
yada yada yada

usually the response was, "duh, yeah whatever you think."

My observation is that the end user (client) usually has no idea what
they need only what they want and there's a big difference between the
two

Gee I just made no sense

Steve