Reference Document

The db project I am working on has a unique serial number for each document.
The procedure calls for the orignator to send the document forward to the
next department for further processing. If you consider a multi-part form,
once it is separated changes can no longer occur. That is the same process
we are using in the db. So what I want to do is allow the user to reference
the original document if they need to create a new document to correct/update
information on the orignal form. A one-to-one table most likely would work.
What I would like to prevent the user from doing is selecting to reference
document #2 from document #4 instead of the original #1 document.

So for an example, Doc-0001 is the original document. Doc-0005 is issued to
update Doc-0001. Then Doc-0014 later on is issued. Doc-0014 should
reference Doc-0001 not Doc-0005. I need to excluded Doc-0005 from the
reference list (since it is already linked to Doc-0001). Hope I painted the
picture sufficiently. Suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

Dave

Dave

I may be missing something...

If Doc#14 is issued in response to Doc#5, which is a variation issued in
response to Doc#1, why would you NOT want to point from #14 back to the
document it is a response to (i.e. #5)? That is, if something in #1 were
changed in #5, when you got to #14, the thing that IT changes might not even
have been in the original #1.

I understand the notion of parent (or grandparent, or great-great-great ...
grandparent), but if each document points to its immediate predecessor, you
could track back to the original ancestor.

More info, please...

Regards

Jeff Boyce
Microsoft Office/Access MVP

"Dave" wrote in message
...
The db project I am working on has a unique serial number for each
document.
The procedure calls for the orignator to send the document forward to the
next department for further processing. If you consider a multi-part
form,
once it is separated changes can no longer occur. That is the same
process
we are using in the db. So what I want to do is allow the user to
reference
the original document if they need to create a new document to
correct/update
information on the orignal form. A one-to-one table most likely would
work.
What I would like to prevent the user from doing is selecting to reference
document #2 from document #4 instead of the original #1 document.

So for an example, Doc-0001 is the original document. Doc-0005 is issued
to
update Doc-0001. Then Doc-0014 later on is issued. Doc-0014 should
reference Doc-0001 not Doc-0005. I need to excluded Doc-0005 from the
reference list (since it is already linked to Doc-0001). Hope I painted
the
picture sufficiently. Suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

Dave

Hi Jeff

I was thinking of that myself. Perhaps having an audit trail one document
previous is sufficient. I was trying to gathering the entire family up for a
group picture instead of going from the kids house to the parents before
going to the grandparents. It all started with the grand-parents (per se).
You believe the better design is to link Doc-14 to Doc-5?
One seminar presenter from Microsoft said never trust your user's input.
Always verify. Well user A might not know about Doc-5 and issue Doc-14 and
thereby referencing Doc-1. I just know things will get real confusing if I
can't relate all the updating documents to the original.

Thanx for the idea, Jeff. Might be the way to go.

"Jeff Boyce" wrote:

Dave

I may be missing something...

If Doc#14 is issued in response to Doc#5, which is a variation issued in
response to Doc#1, why would you NOT want to point from #14 back to the
document it is a response to (i.e. #5)? That is, if something in #1 were
changed in #5, when you got to #14, the thing that IT changes might not even
have been in the original #1.

I understand the notion of parent (or grandparent, or great-great-great ...
grandparent), but if each document points to its immediate predecessor, you
could track back to the original ancestor.

More info, please...

Regards

Jeff Boyce
Microsoft Office/Access MVP

"Dave" wrote in message
...
The db project I am working on has a unique serial number for each
document.
The procedure calls for the orignator to send the document forward to the
next department for further processing. If you consider a multi-part
form,
once it is separated changes can no longer occur. That is the same
process
we are using in the db. So what I want to do is allow the user to
reference
the original document if they need to create a new document to
correct/update
information on the orignal form. A one-to-one table most likely would
work.
What I would like to prevent the user from doing is selecting to reference
document #2 from document #4 instead of the original #1 document.

So for an example, Doc-0001 is the original document. Doc-0005 is issued
to
update Doc-0001. Then Doc-0014 later on is issued. Doc-0014 should
reference Doc-0001 not Doc-0005. I need to excluded Doc-0005 from the
reference list (since it is already linked to Doc-0001). Hope I painted
the
picture sufficiently. Suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

Dave

Dave

Perhaps that presenter stole the notion from the TV show that suggests that
"patients always lie" (maybe not deliberately, but they lie) g.

I don't know your situation like you do, so I don't know how likely it is
that a user would point to #1 when s/he was using #5 as the starting point
for #14 ... how would s/he even know #1 was back there?

Good luck!

Regards

Jeff Boyce
Microsoft Office/Access MVP

"Dave" wrote in message
news
Hi Jeff

I was thinking of that myself. Perhaps having an audit trail one document
previous is sufficient. I was trying to gathering the entire family up
for a
group picture instead of going from the kids house to the parents before
going to the grandparents. It all started with the grand-parents (per
se).
You believe the better design is to link Doc-14 to Doc-5?
One seminar presenter from Microsoft said never trust your user's input.
Always verify. Well user A might not know about Doc-5 and issue Doc-14
and
thereby referencing Doc-1. I just know things will get real confusing if
I
can't relate all the updating documents to the original.

Thanx for the idea, Jeff. Might be the way to go.

"Jeff Boyce" wrote:

Dave

I may be missing something...

If Doc#14 is issued in response to Doc#5, which is a variation issued in
response to Doc#1, why would you NOT want to point from #14 back to the
document it is a response to (i.e. #5)? That is, if something in #1 were
changed in #5, when you got to #14, the thing that IT changes might not
even
have been in the original #1.

I understand the notion of parent (or grandparent, or great-great-great
...
grandparent), but if each document points to its immediate predecessor,
you
could track back to the original ancestor.

More info, please...

Regards

Jeff Boyce
Microsoft Office/Access MVP

"Dave" wrote in message
...
The db project I am working on has a unique serial number for each
document.
The procedure calls for the orignator to send the document forward to
the
next department for further processing. If you consider a multi-part
form,
once it is separated changes can no longer occur. That is the same
process
we are using in the db. So what I want to do is allow the user to
reference
the original document if they need to create a new document to
correct/update
information on the orignal form. A one-to-one table most likely would
work.
What I would like to prevent the user from doing is selecting to
reference
document #2 from document #4 instead of the original #1 document.

So for an example, Doc-0001 is the original document. Doc-0005 is
issued
to
update Doc-0001. Then Doc-0014 later on is issued. Doc-0014 should
reference Doc-0001 not Doc-0005. I need to excluded Doc-0005 from the
reference list (since it is already linked to Doc-0001). Hope I
painted
the
picture sufficiently. Suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

Dave

Hi Jeff

In most cases, the person creating the original document will do the updates
so they would know. But I always have to complicate things (in my mind)
thinking of "what-ifs". Tagging the previous document is easy enough. I
wanted to see if I could complicate the issue by ensuring the user always
tagged the original. So that is why I wanted to see what kind of solutions
others devised.

People sometimes don't want to own up to their misgivings so its easier to
tell the doctor a tall tale!

"Jeff Boyce" wrote:

Dave

Perhaps that presenter stole the notion from the TV show that suggests that
"patients always lie" (maybe not deliberately, but they lie) g.

I don't know your situation like you do, so I don't know how likely it is
that a user would point to #1 when s/he was using #5 as the starting point
for #14 ... how would s/he even know #1 was back there?

Good luck!

Regards

Jeff Boyce
Microsoft Office/Access MVP

"Dave" wrote in message
news
Hi Jeff

I was thinking of that myself. Perhaps having an audit trail one document
previous is sufficient. I was trying to gathering the entire family up
for a
group picture instead of going from the kids house to the parents before
going to the grandparents. It all started with the grand-parents (per
se).
You believe the better design is to link Doc-14 to Doc-5?
One seminar presenter from Microsoft said never trust your user's input.
Always verify. Well user A might not know about Doc-5 and issue Doc-14
and
thereby referencing Doc-1. I just know things will get real confusing if
I
can't relate all the updating documents to the original.

Thanx for the idea, Jeff. Might be the way to go.

"Jeff Boyce" wrote:

Dave

I may be missing something...

If Doc#14 is issued in response to Doc#5, which is a variation issued in
response to Doc#1, why would you NOT want to point from #14 back to the
document it is a response to (i.e. #5)? That is, if something in #1 were
changed in #5, when you got to #14, the thing that IT changes might not
even
have been in the original #1.

I understand the notion of parent (or grandparent, or great-great-great
...
grandparent), but if each document points to its immediate predecessor,
you
could track back to the original ancestor.

More info, please...

Regards

Jeff Boyce
Microsoft Office/Access MVP

"Dave" wrote in message
...
The db project I am working on has a unique serial number for each
document.
The procedure calls for the orignator to send the document forward to
the
next department for further processing. If you consider a multi-part
form,
once it is separated changes can no longer occur. That is the same
process
we are using in the db. So what I want to do is allow the user to
reference
the original document if they need to create a new document to
correct/update
information on the orignal form. A one-to-one table most likely would
work.
What I would like to prevent the user from doing is selecting to
reference
document #2 from document #4 instead of the original #1 document.

So for an example, Doc-0001 is the original document. Doc-0005 is
issued
to
update Doc-0001. Then Doc-0014 later on is issued. Doc-0014 should
reference Doc-0001 not Doc-0005. I need to excluded Doc-0005 from the
reference list (since it is already linked to Doc-0001). Hope I
painted
the
picture sufficiently. Suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

Dave

OK, I'll play too!

Are you planning for how you'll handle people tagging NO preceding document?

(after all, the first one in the chain doesn't have a preceding document!)


Regards

Jeff Boyce
Microsoft Office/Access MVP

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Hi Jeff

In most cases, the person creating the original document will do the
updates
so they would know. But I always have to complicate things (in my mind)
thinking of "what-ifs". Tagging the previous document is easy enough. I
wanted to see if I could complicate the issue by ensuring the user always
tagged the original. So that is why I wanted to see what kind of
solutions
others devised.

People sometimes don't want to own up to their misgivings so its easier to
tell the doctor a tall tale!

"Jeff Boyce" wrote:

Dave

Perhaps that presenter stole the notion from the TV show that suggests
that
"patients always lie" (maybe not deliberately, but they lie) g.

I don't know your situation like you do, so I don't know how likely it is
that a user would point to #1 when s/he was using #5 as the starting
point
for #14 ... how would s/he even know #1 was back there?

Good luck!

Regards

Jeff Boyce
Microsoft Office/Access MVP

"Dave" wrote in message
news
Hi Jeff

I was thinking of that myself. Perhaps having an audit trail one
document
previous is sufficient. I was trying to gathering the entire family up
for a
group picture instead of going from the kids house to the parents
before
going to the grandparents. It all started with the grand-parents (per
se).
You believe the better design is to link Doc-14 to Doc-5?
One seminar presenter from Microsoft said never trust your user's
input.
Always verify. Well user A might not know about Doc-5 and issue Doc-14
and
thereby referencing Doc-1. I just know things will get real confusing
if
I
can't relate all the updating documents to the original.

Thanx for the idea, Jeff. Might be the way to go.

"Jeff Boyce" wrote:

Dave

I may be missing something...

If Doc#14 is issued in response to Doc#5, which is a variation issued
in
response to Doc#1, why would you NOT want to point from #14 back to
the
document it is a response to (i.e. #5)? That is, if something in #1
were
changed in #5, when you got to #14, the thing that IT changes might
not
even
have been in the original #1.

I understand the notion of parent (or grandparent, or
great-great-great
...
grandparent), but if each document points to its immediate
predecessor,
you
could track back to the original ancestor.

More info, please...

Regards

Jeff Boyce
Microsoft Office/Access MVP

"Dave" wrote in message
...
The db project I am working on has a unique serial number for each
document.
The procedure calls for the orignator to send the document forward
to
the
next department for further processing. If you consider a
multi-part
form,
once it is separated changes can no longer occur. That is the same
process
we are using in the db. So what I want to do is allow the user to
reference
the original document if they need to create a new document to
correct/update
information on the orignal form. A one-to-one table most likely
would
work.
What I would like to prevent the user from doing is selecting to
reference
document #2 from document #4 instead of the original #1 document.

So for an example, Doc-0001 is the original document. Doc-0005 is
issued
to
update Doc-0001. Then Doc-0014 later on is issued. Doc-0014 should
reference Doc-0001 not Doc-0005. I need to excluded Doc-0005 from
the
reference list (since it is already linked to Doc-0001). Hope I
painted
the
picture sufficiently. Suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

Dave

Hi Jeff

No plans to link unrelaed documents. The index number in the table tracks
that. Just wanted to have all the documents related. This would be an
exception to the rule. Most documents stand by themselves. On that off
chance that people don't get it right on the first or second attempt, just
wanted to connect the dots. Your suggestion of just referencing the last
document is probably the best soluntion. I'll start there and just react
later on if things go south on me. After all I still have plenty of code to
write - fun stuff! Thank you.

"Jeff Boyce" wrote:

OK, I'll play too!

Are you planning for how you'll handle people tagging NO preceding document?

(after all, the first one in the chain doesn't have a preceding document!)


Regards

Jeff Boyce
Microsoft Office/Access MVP

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Hi Jeff

In most cases, the person creating the original document will do the
updates
so they would know. But I always have to complicate things (in my mind)
thinking of "what-ifs". Tagging the previous document is easy enough. I
wanted to see if I could complicate the issue by ensuring the user always
tagged the original. So that is why I wanted to see what kind of
solutions
others devised.

People sometimes don't want to own up to their misgivings so its easier to
tell the doctor a tall tale!

"Jeff Boyce" wrote:

Dave

Perhaps that presenter stole the notion from the TV show that suggests
that
"patients always lie" (maybe not deliberately, but they lie) g.

I don't know your situation like you do, so I don't know how likely it is
that a user would point to #1 when s/he was using #5 as the starting
point
for #14 ... how would s/he even know #1 was back there?

Good luck!

Regards

Jeff Boyce
Microsoft Office/Access MVP

"Dave" wrote in message
news Hi Jeff

I was thinking of that myself. Perhaps having an audit trail one
document
previous is sufficient. I was trying to gathering the entire family up
for a
group picture instead of going from the kids house to the parents
before
going to the grandparents. It all started with the grand-parents (per
se).
You believe the better design is to link Doc-14 to Doc-5?
One seminar presenter from Microsoft said never trust your user's
input.
Always verify. Well user A might not know about Doc-5 and issue Doc-14
and
thereby referencing Doc-1. I just know things will get real confusing
if
I
can't relate all the updating documents to the original.

Thanx for the idea, Jeff. Might be the way to go.

"Jeff Boyce" wrote:

Dave

I may be missing something...

If Doc#14 is issued in response to Doc#5, which is a variation issued
in
response to Doc#1, why would you NOT want to point from #14 back to
the
document it is a response to (i.e. #5)? That is, if something in #1
were
changed in #5, when you got to #14, the thing that IT changes might
not
even
have been in the original #1.

I understand the notion of parent (or grandparent, or
great-great-great
...
grandparent), but if each document points to its immediate
predecessor,
you
could track back to the original ancestor.

More info, please...

Regards

Jeff Boyce
Microsoft Office/Access MVP

"Dave" wrote in message
...
The db project I am working on has a unique serial number for each
document.
The procedure calls for the orignator to send the document forward
to
the
next department for further processing. If you consider a
multi-part
form,
once it is separated changes can no longer occur. That is the same
process
we are using in the db. So what I want to do is allow the user to
reference
the original document if they need to create a new document to
correct/update
information on the orignal form. A one-to-one table most likely
would
work.
What I would like to prevent the user from doing is selecting to
reference
document #2 from document #4 instead of the original #1 document.

So for an example, Doc-0001 is the original document. Doc-0005 is
issued
to
update Doc-0001. Then Doc-0014 later on is issued. Doc-0014 should
reference Doc-0001 not Doc-0005. I need to excluded Doc-0005 from
the
reference list (since it is already linked to Doc-0001). Hope I
painted
the
picture sufficiently. Suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

Dave

Use a dropdown list for them to load the "original" document. Filter the data
source so that the only shown/allowable values are documents which have no
predecessor

Fred

Hi Fred

That makes sense. By having the user pick the original, I will then know
what information to populate the new document with. Some information has to
remain unchanged (otherwise it is a completely different document) so it then
becomes the basis of the new document.

Thanx for the suggestion.

"Fred" wrote:

Use a dropdown list for them to load the "original" document. Filter the data
source so that the only shown/allowable values are documents which have no
predecessor

Fred