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#11
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Help creating database
A new boss sounds a great idea! No he's ok really.
We work for a company that has a strict policy on the software that can be installed on our pcs. It's basically Access, Word, PowerPoint & Excel - That's it! I have no programming experience and all the db's I have every built have no related tables. That said - they all work for us and have served us for many years with no problems. My job doesn't involve computers as such and basically I have built the databases we use as a tool to do general office tasks. There are no external customers dependent on them. If the db I build goes wrong then it's no big deal, there's always another way to do it. I am trying to learn Access, but not coming from a technical background I find it very difficult - The help files for example might just as well be written in Chinese!!! That said - I usually find a way of achieving what we need, (If one of you guys took a look in detail at one of our dbs you wouldn't stop laughing for a week!! (but they do what we want them to do, may not be efficient, but they get the job done). Employing an Access developer to build the dbs is a non starter, I'm sure that it's not just our company out there that's trying to cut costs at every opportunity. He's what I have in mind (Don't laugh) A separate table for Daily tasks, weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly. with the task required and a check box for each. A form linked to each table so the user can check the relevant box when the task is complete. A form (switchboard) with command buttons that will open each form I could have a password protected form for the boss so he could allocate adhoc tasks, Afew queries/Reports could be created as required. The check boxes on the forms are just for staff to check when a task has been completed - the same as marking it off on a spreadsheet, checking when the box was checked or if it has been altered retrospectively is not an issue. I am learning at a snails pace but am under no pressure to build an all singing all dancing db. Time is a real problem. as I say this is not my full time job, sort of trying to build it as and when I can to help colleagues in a great friendly office environment. Any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated Best regards Steve Goodrich "Jeff Boyce" wrote in message ... ... or find a new boss ... g! Jeff "Fred" wrote in message ... We use Access as a platform for a combined planning and task management system. (Actually, all of the above integrate into a heirarchy that goes from strategic planning down to task levels.) It is highly customized to us....which is why what we have would be worthless to you, but illustrates that the flexibility, power and openness of an Access platform can provide advantages. The gist of the excellent advice that the other respondents have given you is that doing the described application (especially the special things that your boss wants) yourself will probably be a sort of 1 year learning curve (at a typical pace, if you're up for the learning effort) for you, combined with developing the application over months and refining it over years. If your boss doesn't want to hear that, then (as the respondents described) you're either going to have to get some help or use a completed commercial software....the latter would probably require some adaptations of expectations. |
#12
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Help creating database
Steve
I'll refer you back to one of my earlier responses. I urge you to consider the 3-4 learning curves I mentioned. If you feel like you're near the bottom on any of those, plan on taking the time to learn your way up that/those curves before expecting to get Access to work well/easily for you. There's no harm, no foul in creating something that works. Now you just need to decide whether the goodies Access offers is worth the pain to come up to speed. If you have another way to get the job done, one that you already understand, go for it! That said, Access is more a power tool than a bookcase. You can learn to use it safely and properly, and, in the end, build some really nifty bookcases. Just don't expect to walk up to it and have it be easy to understand. Best of luck! Regards Jeff Boyce Microsoft Office/Access MVP "steve goodrich" wrote in message ... A new boss sounds a great idea! No he's ok really. We work for a company that has a strict policy on the software that can be installed on our pcs. It's basically Access, Word, PowerPoint & Excel - That's it! I have no programming experience and all the db's I have every built have no related tables. That said - they all work for us and have served us for many years with no problems. My job doesn't involve computers as such and basically I have built the databases we use as a tool to do general office tasks. There are no external customers dependent on them. If the db I build goes wrong then it's no big deal, there's always another way to do it. I am trying to learn Access, but not coming from a technical background I find it very difficult - The help files for example might just as well be written in Chinese!!! That said - I usually find a way of achieving what we need, (If one of you guys took a look in detail at one of our dbs you wouldn't stop laughing for a week!! (but they do what we want them to do, may not be efficient, but they get the job done). Employing an Access developer to build the dbs is a non starter, I'm sure that it's not just our company out there that's trying to cut costs at every opportunity. He's what I have in mind (Don't laugh) A separate table for Daily tasks, weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly. with the task required and a check box for each. A form linked to each table so the user can check the relevant box when the task is complete. A form (switchboard) with command buttons that will open each form I could have a password protected form for the boss so he could allocate adhoc tasks, Afew queries/Reports could be created as required. The check boxes on the forms are just for staff to check when a task has been completed - the same as marking it off on a spreadsheet, checking when the box was checked or if it has been altered retrospectively is not an issue. I am learning at a snails pace but am under no pressure to build an all singing all dancing db. Time is a real problem. as I say this is not my full time job, sort of trying to build it as and when I can to help colleagues in a great friendly office environment. Any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated Best regards Steve Goodrich "Jeff Boyce" wrote in message ... ... or find a new boss ... g! Jeff "Fred" wrote in message ... We use Access as a platform for a combined planning and task management system. (Actually, all of the above integrate into a heirarchy that goes from strategic planning down to task levels.) It is highly customized to us....which is why what we have would be worthless to you, but illustrates that the flexibility, power and openness of an Access platform can provide advantages. The gist of the excellent advice that the other respondents have given you is that doing the described application (especially the special things that your boss wants) yourself will probably be a sort of 1 year learning curve (at a typical pace, if you're up for the learning effort) for you, combined with developing the application over months and refining it over years. If your boss doesn't want to hear that, then (as the respondents described) you're either going to have to get some help or use a completed commercial software....the latter would probably require some adaptations of expectations. |
#13
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Help creating database
Hi Steve,
You're not hearing (or heeding) the good advice you have already received. Believe it or not, we would like you to succeed with your use of Access to solve your business problems. We will not knowingly help you shoot yourself and your boss in the foot or feet. :-) Your last post indicates that you haven't completed your analysis or possibly don't know what it means or possibly think you know your prospective application so well that you don't need to express it before beginning your design. To wit: you have already proposed a design based on incomplete and incorrect analysis. Proceeding in that manner will lead to producing yet one more "laughable" application that will be difficult and expensive to enhance and extend. By the way, any application that finds some use has a value so don't worry about past efforts. The problem with so many amateur Excel based applications is that they are not highly automated and they are not user friendly at all. They depend on the user being the most critical part of the "program". The user is expected to know where to go to replace data, enter new data and to interact in other ways with what's there. Excel can be used to produce some pretty slick professional applications (if I do say so myself!). The biggest single problem people experience in coming to Access from managing data in Excel is that they believe Access is simply a quirky version of Excel. 'Taint so! Excel is flat. Access is Relational. Excel is essentially a calculating platform. Access (en toto) is a Relational Database Management System (RDBMS). Actually, Access is a whole bunch of development tools that assume a RDBMS will be a part of the mix. In a "good" Access application you will not allow your users to see or interact with the tables directly. You will provide meaningful forms for your users to complete their tasks (in other words, all tasks have to be defined and then you have to provide the forms and means to complete them. No other tasks will be allowed!). To the extent possible you analyze the proposed application and create a specification before any code is written. When the specification is complete, that becomes the "contract" for the application; all epiphanies and bright ideas encountered before completion will be noted for latter address. Deliver the contracted application and get it signed off. If the will is there, peruse the new ideas with the client for a new release. I would ask the client to use it and take not of any more new ideas for inclusion in that second phase. For a journeyman Access developer your proposed application seems to be fairly small and relatively uncomplicated. If you and your boss are ready, willing and able to fully specify the result you want and the inputs available (with assistance from a developer) the technical aspects of the whole thing could take a week or less. It could take as long as a month if people are slow to respond with requested documentation or to get to the phone. If you're in the least bit of a hurry that's the way I'd recommend. Insist that the developer document the code so that you can learn from how your Access application was built. Whether you do it yourself of have it done, you'll still want to learn more about Access. There is a list of resources below that can help you if you will use them and apply yourself. Start with the things that seem easiest to learn and go on from there. If you were to consume all of the items on the whole list you would be an Access guru of awesome stature. A couple of newsgroups I always recommend for Access newbies a microsoft.public.gettingstarted microsoft.public.tablesdesign A list of priceless Access resources I cribbed from the frequent posts of John Vinson is below Jeff Conrad's resources page: http://www.accessmvp.com/JConrad/acc...resources.html The Access Web resources page: http://www.mvps.org/access/resources/index.html Roger Carlson's tutorials, samples and tips: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/ A free tutorial written by Crystal: http://allenbrowne.com/casu-22.html A video how-to series by Crystal: http://www.YouTube.com/user/LearnAccessByCrystal MVP Allen Browne's tutorials: http://allenbrowne.com/links.html#Tutorials HTH -- -Larry- -- "steve goodrich" wrote in message ... A new boss sounds a great idea! No he's ok really. We work for a company that has a strict policy on the software that can be installed on our pcs. It's basically Access, Word, PowerPoint & Excel - That's it! I have no programming experience and all the db's I have every built have no related tables. That said - they all work for us and have served us for many years with no problems. My job doesn't involve computers as such and basically I have built the databases we use as a tool to do general office tasks. There are no external customers dependent on them. If the db I build goes wrong then it's no big deal, there's always another way to do it. I am trying to learn Access, but not coming from a technical background I find it very difficult - The help files for example might just as well be written in Chinese!!! That said - I usually find a way of achieving what we need, (If one of you guys took a look in detail at one of our dbs you wouldn't stop laughing for a week!! (but they do what we want them to do, may not be efficient, but they get the job done). Employing an Access developer to build the dbs is a non starter, I'm sure that it's not just our company out there that's trying to cut costs at every opportunity. He's what I have in mind (Don't laugh) A separate table for Daily tasks, weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly. with the task required and a check box for each. A form linked to each table so the user can check the relevant box when the task is complete. A form (switchboard) with command buttons that will open each form I could have a password protected form for the boss so he could allocate adhoc tasks, Afew queries/Reports could be created as required. The check boxes on the forms are just for staff to check when a task has been completed - the same as marking it off on a spreadsheet, checking when the box was checked or if it has been altered retrospectively is not an issue. I am learning at a snails pace but am under no pressure to build an all singing all dancing db. Time is a real problem. as I say this is not my full time job, sort of trying to build it as and when I can to help colleagues in a great friendly office environment. Any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated Best regards Steve Goodrich "Jeff Boyce" wrote in message ... ... or find a new boss ... g! Jeff "Fred" wrote in message ... We use Access as a platform for a combined planning and task management system. (Actually, all of the above integrate into a heirarchy that goes from strategic planning down to task levels.) It is highly customized to us....which is why what we have would be worthless to you, but illustrates that the flexibility, power and openness of an Access platform can provide advantages. The gist of the excellent advice that the other respondents have given you is that doing the described application (especially the special things that your boss wants) yourself will probably be a sort of 1 year learning curve (at a typical pace, if you're up for the learning effort) for you, combined with developing the application over months and refining it over years. If your boss doesn't want to hear that, then (as the respondents described) you're either going to have to get some help or use a completed commercial software....the latter would probably require some adaptations of expectations. |
#14
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Help creating database
Larry
Nice summary! I tend not to require the "explain everything you want before we start" approach, though, because most folks don't know what they want! I'll work with a prospective client to identify the 2 or 3 most-critical aspects of what they're trying to accomplish, and negotiate an agreement to work for a (limited) time on those. If those aren't possible, or achievable within our lifetimes, then we're better off knowing that up front than discovering that six months into the project. After the first round, the client can walk away with what they have so far, or engage in another round of identifying the (next) most critical aspects. Of course, back to my original thought -- at each step, helping the client identify what s/he's after has to come before any specs! Regards Jeff Boyce Microsoft Office/Access MVP "Larry Daugherty" wrote in message ... Hi Steve, You're not hearing (or heeding) the good advice you have already received. Believe it or not, we would like you to succeed with your use of Access to solve your business problems. We will not knowingly help you shoot yourself and your boss in the foot or feet. :-) Your last post indicates that you haven't completed your analysis or possibly don't know what it means or possibly think you know your prospective application so well that you don't need to express it before beginning your design. To wit: you have already proposed a design based on incomplete and incorrect analysis. Proceeding in that manner will lead to producing yet one more "laughable" application that will be difficult and expensive to enhance and extend. By the way, any application that finds some use has a value so don't worry about past efforts. The problem with so many amateur Excel based applications is that they are not highly automated and they are not user friendly at all. They depend on the user being the most critical part of the "program". The user is expected to know where to go to replace data, enter new data and to interact in other ways with what's there. Excel can be used to produce some pretty slick professional applications (if I do say so myself!). The biggest single problem people experience in coming to Access from managing data in Excel is that they believe Access is simply a quirky version of Excel. 'Taint so! Excel is flat. Access is Relational. Excel is essentially a calculating platform. Access (en toto) is a Relational Database Management System (RDBMS). Actually, Access is a whole bunch of development tools that assume a RDBMS will be a part of the mix. In a "good" Access application you will not allow your users to see or interact with the tables directly. You will provide meaningful forms for your users to complete their tasks (in other words, all tasks have to be defined and then you have to provide the forms and means to complete them. No other tasks will be allowed!). To the extent possible you analyze the proposed application and create a specification before any code is written. When the specification is complete, that becomes the "contract" for the application; all epiphanies and bright ideas encountered before completion will be noted for latter address. Deliver the contracted application and get it signed off. If the will is there, peruse the new ideas with the client for a new release. I would ask the client to use it and take not of any more new ideas for inclusion in that second phase. For a journeyman Access developer your proposed application seems to be fairly small and relatively uncomplicated. If you and your boss are ready, willing and able to fully specify the result you want and the inputs available (with assistance from a developer) the technical aspects of the whole thing could take a week or less. It could take as long as a month if people are slow to respond with requested documentation or to get to the phone. If you're in the least bit of a hurry that's the way I'd recommend. Insist that the developer document the code so that you can learn from how your Access application was built. Whether you do it yourself of have it done, you'll still want to learn more about Access. There is a list of resources below that can help you if you will use them and apply yourself. Start with the things that seem easiest to learn and go on from there. If you were to consume all of the items on the whole list you would be an Access guru of awesome stature. A couple of newsgroups I always recommend for Access newbies a microsoft.public.gettingstarted microsoft.public.tablesdesign A list of priceless Access resources I cribbed from the frequent posts of John Vinson is below Jeff Conrad's resources page: http://www.accessmvp.com/JConrad/acc...resources.html The Access Web resources page: http://www.mvps.org/access/resources/index.html Roger Carlson's tutorials, samples and tips: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/ A free tutorial written by Crystal: http://allenbrowne.com/casu-22.html A video how-to series by Crystal: http://www.YouTube.com/user/LearnAccessByCrystal MVP Allen Browne's tutorials: http://allenbrowne.com/links.html#Tutorials HTH -- -Larry- -- "steve goodrich" wrote in message ... A new boss sounds a great idea! No he's ok really. We work for a company that has a strict policy on the software that can be installed on our pcs. It's basically Access, Word, PowerPoint & Excel - That's it! I have no programming experience and all the db's I have every built have no related tables. That said - they all work for us and have served us for many years with no problems. My job doesn't involve computers as such and basically I have built the databases we use as a tool to do general office tasks. There are no external customers dependent on them. If the db I build goes wrong then it's no big deal, there's always another way to do it. I am trying to learn Access, but not coming from a technical background I find it very difficult - The help files for example might just as well be written in Chinese!!! That said - I usually find a way of achieving what we need, (If one of you guys took a look in detail at one of our dbs you wouldn't stop laughing for a week!! (but they do what we want them to do, may not be efficient, but they get the job done). Employing an Access developer to build the dbs is a non starter, I'm sure that it's not just our company out there that's trying to cut costs at every opportunity. He's what I have in mind (Don't laugh) A separate table for Daily tasks, weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly. with the task required and a check box for each. A form linked to each table so the user can check the relevant box when the task is complete. A form (switchboard) with command buttons that will open each form I could have a password protected form for the boss so he could allocate adhoc tasks, Afew queries/Reports could be created as required. The check boxes on the forms are just for staff to check when a task has been completed - the same as marking it off on a spreadsheet, checking when the box was checked or if it has been altered retrospectively is not an issue. I am learning at a snails pace but am under no pressure to build an all singing all dancing db. Time is a real problem. as I say this is not my full time job, sort of trying to build it as and when I can to help colleagues in a great friendly office environment. Any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated Best regards Steve Goodrich "Jeff Boyce" wrote in message ... ... or find a new boss ... g! Jeff "Fred" wrote in message ... We use Access as a platform for a combined planning and task management system. (Actually, all of the above integrate into a heirarchy that goes from strategic planning down to task levels.) It is highly customized to us....which is why what we have would be worthless to you, but illustrates that the flexibility, power and openness of an Access platform can provide advantages. The gist of the excellent advice that the other respondents have given you is that doing the described application (especially the special things that your boss wants) yourself will probably be a sort of 1 year learning curve (at a typical pace, if you're up for the learning effort) for you, combined with developing the application over months and refining it over years. If your boss doesn't want to hear that, then (as the respondents described) you're either going to have to get some help or use a completed commercial software....the latter would probably require some adaptations of expectations. |
#15
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Help creating database
Here's some baby step advice on top of the excellent big picture advice
already given to you byu others. With regard to your likely level of Access knowledgein the near future, the more complex user-access cotrol functionality etc. that your boss is discussing makes it that your question is mixing two things together. It sort of like saying "my boss is thinking of switching me from a motorcycle to a car, and, by the way, the reason for the switch is to win the Indy 500 with the car next week. Do you think I can handle this switch to a car? My advice is that a good start would be to tell your boss that under the multiplle constraints he has given you (you have to build it 100% DIY - no pre-made software, and no paid help) that the only choice he has is to seperate the "car switch" from the Indy 500. In other words, to start by just moving your application to Access, (which probablyu won't be that tough) and winning the Indy 500 will have to wait under the constraints that have been placed on you. |
#16
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Help creating database
Thanks guys for all your advice. I know it's a very big learning curve - I'm
learning all the time. I find this ng one of the most useful resources - keep up the good work, it really is appreciated. "Fred" wrote in message ... Here's some baby step advice on top of the excellent big picture advice already given to you byu others. With regard to your likely level of Access knowledgein the near future, the more complex user-access cotrol functionality etc. that your boss is discussing makes it that your question is mixing two things together. It sort of like saying "my boss is thinking of switching me from a motorcycle to a car, and, by the way, the reason for the switch is to win the Indy 500 with the car next week. Do you think I can handle this switch to a car? My advice is that a good start would be to tell your boss that under the multiplle constraints he has given you (you have to build it 100% DIY - no pre-made software, and no paid help) that the only choice he has is to seperate the "car switch" from the Indy 500. In other words, to start by just moving your application to Access, (which probablyu won't be that tough) and winning the Indy 500 will have to wait under the constraints that have been placed on you. |
#17
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Help creating database
Thanks Jeff,
I hope it was useful to OP. Most useful to the neophyte is getting to know about the territory that he or she doesn't yet know but that they will likely have to travel in order to get done what they want. I admire the ambition of everyone who is learning and using Access. Having learned all of the little I know about the subject by self directed efforts, I'm in complete empathy. Help files, books, magazines and other resources all helped. How about Smart Access!! I also learned a lot by lurking these Access newsgroups to see what others were posting and seeing if I could understand and resolve their issues. That was time consuming but useful. Eventually, I started occasionally responding to posts. When I do respond I usually do so with an awareness of the hundreds of "lurkers" who aren't a visible part of the dialogue but who benefit nonetheless. Sometimes I don't give posters the simple result that they seek but point them instead to the resources they have available to be able to help themselves. I'm awed by the succinct responses of John Vinson and Allen Browne in particular. I don't think they're naturals, I think they worked to get that way. There are lots of others ... Your own posts are great examples of common sense reasoning applied to a complex subject area. Getting people to understand the real issues they face in getting to a solution they want is even more important than complete mastery of the technical expertise. You help lots of people grasp that valuable insight and place Access in its proper place as a tool for providing solutions rather than as the embodiment of specific solutions. Kudos -- -Larry- -- "Jeff Boyce" wrote in message ... Larry Nice summary! I tend not to require the "explain everything you want before we start" approach, though, because most folks don't know what they want! I'll work with a prospective client to identify the 2 or 3 most-critical aspects of what they're trying to accomplish, and negotiate an agreement to work for a (limited) time on those. If those aren't possible, or achievable within our lifetimes, then we're better off knowing that up front than discovering that six months into the project. After the first round, the client can walk away with what they have so far, or engage in another round of identifying the (next) most critical aspects. Of course, back to my original thought -- at each step, helping the client identify what s/he's after has to come before any specs! Regards Jeff Boyce Microsoft Office/Access MVP "Larry Daugherty" wrote in message ... Hi Steve, You're not hearing (or heeding) the good advice you have already received. Believe it or not, we would like you to succeed with your use of Access to solve your business problems. We will not knowingly help you shoot yourself and your boss in the foot or feet. :-) Your last post indicates that you haven't completed your analysis or possibly don't know what it means or possibly think you know your prospective application so well that you don't need to express it before beginning your design. To wit: you have already proposed a design based on incomplete and incorrect analysis. Proceeding in that manner will lead to producing yet one more "laughable" application that will be difficult and expensive to enhance and extend. By the way, any application that finds some use has a value so don't worry about past efforts. The problem with so many amateur Excel based applications is that they are not highly automated and they are not user friendly at all. They depend on the user being the most critical part of the "program". The user is expected to know where to go to replace data, enter new data and to interact in other ways with what's there. Excel can be used to produce some pretty slick professional applications (if I do say so myself!). The biggest single problem people experience in coming to Access from managing data in Excel is that they believe Access is simply a quirky version of Excel. 'Taint so! Excel is flat. Access is Relational. Excel is essentially a calculating platform. Access (en toto) is a Relational Database Management System (RDBMS). Actually, Access is a whole bunch of development tools that assume a RDBMS will be a part of the mix. In a "good" Access application you will not allow your users to see or interact with the tables directly. You will provide meaningful forms for your users to complete their tasks (in other words, all tasks have to be defined and then you have to provide the forms and means to complete them. No other tasks will be allowed!). To the extent possible you analyze the proposed application and create a specification before any code is written. When the specification is complete, that becomes the "contract" for the application; all epiphanies and bright ideas encountered before completion will be noted for latter address. Deliver the contracted application and get it signed off. If the will is there, peruse the new ideas with the client for a new release. I would ask the client to use it and take not of any more new ideas for inclusion in that second phase. For a journeyman Access developer your proposed application seems to be fairly small and relatively uncomplicated. If you and your boss are ready, willing and able to fully specify the result you want and the inputs available (with assistance from a developer) the technical aspects of the whole thing could take a week or less. It could take as long as a month if people are slow to respond with requested documentation or to get to the phone. If you're in the least bit of a hurry that's the way I'd recommend. Insist that the developer document the code so that you can learn from how your Access application was built. Whether you do it yourself of have it done, you'll still want to learn more about Access. There is a list of resources below that can help you if you will use them and apply yourself. Start with the things that seem easiest to learn and go on from there. If you were to consume all of the items on the whole list you would be an Access guru of awesome stature. A couple of newsgroups I always recommend for Access newbies a microsoft.public.gettingstarted microsoft.public.tablesdesign A list of priceless Access resources I cribbed from the frequent posts of John Vinson is below Jeff Conrad's resources page: http://www.accessmvp.com/JConrad/acc...resources.html The Access Web resources page: http://www.mvps.org/access/resources/index.html Roger Carlson's tutorials, samples and tips: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/ A free tutorial written by Crystal: http://allenbrowne.com/casu-22.html A video how-to series by Crystal: http://www.YouTube.com/user/LearnAccessByCrystal MVP Allen Browne's tutorials: http://allenbrowne.com/links.html#Tutorials HTH -- -Larry- -- "steve goodrich" wrote in message ... A new boss sounds a great idea! No he's ok really. We work for a company that has a strict policy on the software that can be installed on our pcs. It's basically Access, Word, PowerPoint & Excel - That's it! I have no programming experience and all the db's I have every built have no related tables. That said - they all work for us and have served us for many years with no problems. My job doesn't involve computers as such and basically I have built the databases we use as a tool to do general office tasks. There are no external customers dependent on them. If the db I build goes wrong then it's no big deal, there's always another way to do it. I am trying to learn Access, but not coming from a technical background I find it very difficult - The help files for example might just as well be written in Chinese!!! That said - I usually find a way of achieving what we need, (If one of you guys took a look in detail at one of our dbs you wouldn't stop laughing for a week!! (but they do what we want them to do, may not be efficient, but they get the job done). Employing an Access developer to build the dbs is a non starter, I'm sure that it's not just our company out there that's trying to cut costs at every opportunity. He's what I have in mind (Don't laugh) A separate table for Daily tasks, weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly. with the task required and a check box for each. A form linked to each table so the user can check the relevant box when the task is complete. A form (switchboard) with command buttons that will open each form I could have a password protected form for the boss so he could allocate adhoc tasks, Afew queries/Reports could be created as required. The check boxes on the forms are just for staff to check when a task has been completed - the same as marking it off on a spreadsheet, checking when the box was checked or if it has been altered retrospectively is not an issue. I am learning at a snails pace but am under no pressure to build an all singing all dancing db. Time is a real problem. as I say this is not my full time job, sort of trying to build it as and when I can to help colleagues in a great friendly office environment. Any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated Best regards Steve Goodrich "Jeff Boyce" wrote in message ... ... or find a new boss ... g! Jeff "Fred" wrote in message ... We use Access as a platform for a combined planning and task management system. (Actually, all of the above integrate into a heirarchy that goes from strategic planning down to task levels.) It is highly customized to us....which is why what we have would be worthless to you, but illustrates that the flexibility, power and openness of an Access platform can provide advantages. The gist of the excellent advice that the other respondents have given you is that doing the described application (especially the special things that your boss wants) yourself will probably be a sort of 1 year learning curve (at a typical pace, if you're up for the learning effort) for you, combined with developing the application over months and refining it over years. If your boss doesn't want to hear that, then (as the respondents described) you're either going to have to get some help or use a completed commercial software....the latter would probably require some adaptations of expectations. |
#18
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Help creating database
Thank you for the kind words, Larry. I, too, am in awe of John & Allen,
among many others. I decided long ago that my mind doesn't go the same places that theirs do, and I don't even aspire to be able to do what they do. I also realized long ago that I 'break things'. Not maliciously, but just because I tend to ask those sometimes annoying questions that can help reveal what isn't yet understood. Some folks just want to know "what button to push" ... and there are many here who can help them. I tend to ask "why are you pushing that button?" ... or even "?there's a button?!" Regards Jeff "Larry Daugherty" wrote in message ... Thanks Jeff, I hope it was useful to OP. Most useful to the neophyte is getting to know about the territory that he or she doesn't yet know but that they will likely have to travel in order to get done what they want. I admire the ambition of everyone who is learning and using Access. Having learned all of the little I know about the subject by self directed efforts, I'm in complete empathy. Help files, books, magazines and other resources all helped. How about Smart Access!! I also learned a lot by lurking these Access newsgroups to see what others were posting and seeing if I could understand and resolve their issues. That was time consuming but useful. Eventually, I started occasionally responding to posts. When I do respond I usually do so with an awareness of the hundreds of "lurkers" who aren't a visible part of the dialogue but who benefit nonetheless. Sometimes I don't give posters the simple result that they seek but point them instead to the resources they have available to be able to help themselves. I'm awed by the succinct responses of John Vinson and Allen Browne in particular. I don't think they're naturals, I think they worked to get that way. There are lots of others ... Your own posts are great examples of common sense reasoning applied to a complex subject area. Getting people to understand the real issues they face in getting to a solution they want is even more important than complete mastery of the technical expertise. You help lots of people grasp that valuable insight and place Access in its proper place as a tool for providing solutions rather than as the embodiment of specific solutions. Kudos -- -Larry- -- "Jeff Boyce" wrote in message ... Larry Nice summary! I tend not to require the "explain everything you want before we start" approach, though, because most folks don't know what they want! I'll work with a prospective client to identify the 2 or 3 most-critical aspects of what they're trying to accomplish, and negotiate an agreement to work for a (limited) time on those. If those aren't possible, or achievable within our lifetimes, then we're better off knowing that up front than discovering that six months into the project. After the first round, the client can walk away with what they have so far, or engage in another round of identifying the (next) most critical aspects. Of course, back to my original thought -- at each step, helping the client identify what s/he's after has to come before any specs! Regards Jeff Boyce Microsoft Office/Access MVP "Larry Daugherty" wrote in message ... Hi Steve, You're not hearing (or heeding) the good advice you have already received. Believe it or not, we would like you to succeed with your use of Access to solve your business problems. We will not knowingly help you shoot yourself and your boss in the foot or feet. :-) Your last post indicates that you haven't completed your analysis or possibly don't know what it means or possibly think you know your prospective application so well that you don't need to express it before beginning your design. To wit: you have already proposed a design based on incomplete and incorrect analysis. Proceeding in that manner will lead to producing yet one more "laughable" application that will be difficult and expensive to enhance and extend. By the way, any application that finds some use has a value so don't worry about past efforts. The problem with so many amateur Excel based applications is that they are not highly automated and they are not user friendly at all. They depend on the user being the most critical part of the "program". The user is expected to know where to go to replace data, enter new data and to interact in other ways with what's there. Excel can be used to produce some pretty slick professional applications (if I do say so myself!). The biggest single problem people experience in coming to Access from managing data in Excel is that they believe Access is simply a quirky version of Excel. 'Taint so! Excel is flat. Access is Relational. Excel is essentially a calculating platform. Access (en toto) is a Relational Database Management System (RDBMS). Actually, Access is a whole bunch of development tools that assume a RDBMS will be a part of the mix. In a "good" Access application you will not allow your users to see or interact with the tables directly. You will provide meaningful forms for your users to complete their tasks (in other words, all tasks have to be defined and then you have to provide the forms and means to complete them. No other tasks will be allowed!). To the extent possible you analyze the proposed application and create a specification before any code is written. When the specification is complete, that becomes the "contract" for the application; all epiphanies and bright ideas encountered before completion will be noted for latter address. Deliver the contracted application and get it signed off. If the will is there, peruse the new ideas with the client for a new release. I would ask the client to use it and take not of any more new ideas for inclusion in that second phase. For a journeyman Access developer your proposed application seems to be fairly small and relatively uncomplicated. If you and your boss are ready, willing and able to fully specify the result you want and the inputs available (with assistance from a developer) the technical aspects of the whole thing could take a week or less. It could take as long as a month if people are slow to respond with requested documentation or to get to the phone. If you're in the least bit of a hurry that's the way I'd recommend. Insist that the developer document the code so that you can learn from how your Access application was built. Whether you do it yourself of have it done, you'll still want to learn more about Access. There is a list of resources below that can help you if you will use them and apply yourself. Start with the things that seem easiest to learn and go on from there. If you were to consume all of the items on the whole list you would be an Access guru of awesome stature. A couple of newsgroups I always recommend for Access newbies a microsoft.public.gettingstarted microsoft.public.tablesdesign A list of priceless Access resources I cribbed from the frequent posts of John Vinson is below Jeff Conrad's resources page: http://www.accessmvp.com/JConrad/acc...resources.html The Access Web resources page: http://www.mvps.org/access/resources/index.html Roger Carlson's tutorials, samples and tips: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/ A free tutorial written by Crystal: http://allenbrowne.com/casu-22.html A video how-to series by Crystal: http://www.YouTube.com/user/LearnAccessByCrystal MVP Allen Browne's tutorials: http://allenbrowne.com/links.html#Tutorials HTH -- -Larry- -- "steve goodrich" wrote in message ... A new boss sounds a great idea! No he's ok really. We work for a company that has a strict policy on the software that can be installed on our pcs. It's basically Access, Word, PowerPoint & Excel - That's it! I have no programming experience and all the db's I have every built have no related tables. That said - they all work for us and have served us for many years with no problems. My job doesn't involve computers as such and basically I have built the databases we use as a tool to do general office tasks. There are no external customers dependent on them. If the db I build goes wrong then it's no big deal, there's always another way to do it. I am trying to learn Access, but not coming from a technical background I find it very difficult - The help files for example might just as well be written in Chinese!!! That said - I usually find a way of achieving what we need, (If one of you guys took a look in detail at one of our dbs you wouldn't stop laughing for a week!! (but they do what we want them to do, may not be efficient, but they get the job done). Employing an Access developer to build the dbs is a non starter, I'm sure that it's not just our company out there that's trying to cut costs at every opportunity. He's what I have in mind (Don't laugh) A separate table for Daily tasks, weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly. with the task required and a check box for each. A form linked to each table so the user can check the relevant box when the task is complete. A form (switchboard) with command buttons that will open each form I could have a password protected form for the boss so he could allocate adhoc tasks, Afew queries/Reports could be created as required. The check boxes on the forms are just for staff to check when a task has been completed - the same as marking it off on a spreadsheet, checking when the box was checked or if it has been altered retrospectively is not an issue. I am learning at a snails pace but am under no pressure to build an all singing all dancing db. Time is a real problem. as I say this is not my full time job, sort of trying to build it as and when I can to help colleagues in a great friendly office environment. Any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated Best regards Steve Goodrich "Jeff Boyce" wrote in message ... ... or find a new boss ... g! Jeff "Fred" wrote in message ... We use Access as a platform for a combined planning and task management system. (Actually, all of the above integrate into a heirarchy that goes from strategic planning down to task levels.) It is highly customized to us....which is why what we have would be worthless to you, but illustrates that the flexibility, power and openness of an Access platform can provide advantages. The gist of the excellent advice that the other respondents have given you is that doing the described application (especially the special things that your boss wants) yourself will probably be a sort of 1 year learning curve (at a typical pace, if you're up for the learning effort) for you, combined with developing the application over months and refining it over years. If your boss doesn't want to hear that, then (as the respondents described) you're either going to have to get some help or use a completed commercial software....the latter would probably require some adaptations of expectations. |
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