Update - Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Community

Having read about the bridge in this thread I have managed to get it running.
The problem is the microsoft.public newsgroups are in the list. They are
mostly MSDN and Technet

"VanguardLH" wrote:

wrote:

What is Happening?
This message is to inform you that Microsoft will soon begin discontinuing
newsgroups and transitioning users to Microsoft forums.

Why?
snipped the propaganda
To this end, Microsoft will begin to progressively shift available
resources to the forums technology and discontinue support for
newsgroups.

In addition to offering a compelling online browser experience, for those
users who prefer to use an NNTP (newsgroup) reader to participate in the
newsgroups community, we have developed a solution called the NNTP Bridge
which allows a user to connect a variety of supported NNTP readers to the
forums they would like to participate in and continue having the NTTP reader
functionality. You can find instructions on how to download and set up the
NNTP Bridge he http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums/

When will this Happen?
Effective June 1, 2010 this newsgroup will be closed.

The feedback and discussion forums for the "Microsoft Forums NNTP Bridge"
proxy prove how unreliable is Microsoft's solution. It might work but then
stops working, it doesn't support the normal suite of NNTP commands, and a
myriad of other problems reported by users of this gateway. Reading their
forums shows that lots of users can't get their proxy working or keep it
working. Also, access is very s-l-o-w when using their client (as it is
when using their web interface).

Personally I have yet to get their proxy to even connect to their server.
Their proxy pukes with "Your profile was not found" despite creating an
active Microsoft Connect account (which you need to download their client)
and with a validated profile. Their instructions have you visit their
*other* forums to create yet another profile. You must create a forum
profile, not just a Connect profile. Below are their install instructions:

- Go to any of the online forums at http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/forums/
and click "Sign in" in the upper right hand corner of the screen.
Understand the Windows Live ID is the same one that you want to use with
this Client. This is a onetime effort to create your online profile. You
don't need to do this every time you use this application. If you already
have a Windows Live ID that you have used to sign on to any of the forums
below then you can skip this step.
- When logged into forums, users need to click their "My Settings" ...

No matter which of their forum groups that I visit (MSDN, TechNet,
Expressions, Answers, or Microsoft), the only link to my profile settings is
"Create Profile". That has no "My Settings" page which is where you must
visit to enable the "NNTP bridge" access by their client. Their proxy is a
non-solution for me for NNTP-to-forum access. They don't have or are
currently missing the requisite pieces at their web site to enable access to
their web forums using their local client.

When I was logged in and tried to post a message ("Ask a Question"), I got
"Error 500: Sorry, we were unable to service your request. Please try again
later." or "Error 500: The page you are attempting to view is temporarily
unavailable due to system maintenance. Please try again later." depending on
which forum group (MSDN, TechNet, Expressions, Answers, or Microsoft) where
I was attempting to submit a post. Yeah, no big surprise that their web
forums are screwed up again, a long-time ailment of their webnews-for-boobs
interface, too, so maybe that's why I cannot get a "My Settings" page. Yep,
Microsoft sure has provided a reliable venue for community support ... NOT!
Even if an NNTP server goes down, I can always connect to a different one to
access a newsgroup.

It is also an ass-backwards solution. Forums that implement a
forum-to-Usenet gateway (aka a webnews interface) have the gateway run on
their forum's server which links to their NNTP server that peers to the mesh
network of other NNTP servers (aka Usenet). Instead Microsoft wants you to
install their proxy on your host (which is not configurable regarding its
listening port), figure out how to load it on Windows login (since they
don't do that setup), and reconfigure your newsreader to use this local
proxy. The gateway should be running up on *their* server to permit
standard NNTP access to their web-based forums. That this is how the rest
of the world provides a webnews interface but which eludes Microsoft on how
to implement a similar reliable solution. The reason Microsoft is
ass-backwards in their approach is that they want their local proxy to
authenticate to their server, something already provided in the NNTP
protocol but which Microsoft doesn't want to support (despite still doing so
for their private newsgroups). NNTP already has the necessary
authentication to provide login credentials for users to log into validated
accounts on the server. The NNTP server that I'm using to post here
requires me to authenticate (i.e., it is not an anonymous NNTP server and
instead requires me to login to the account that was created for only my use
on that server).

Be aware that Microsoft will demand more than just the install of their
"NNTP bridge" proxy to access their web-based forums. When you attempt to
download their installation file, you are required to also install their
"File Transfer Manager" program which handles the download. You may never
need it again but you'll waste the disk space leaving it on your host
because no entry gets added in the Add/Remove Programs applet in Control
Panel to let you uninstall this fluff that is no longer needed after
downloading their "NNTP bridge" proxy. Using something like Zsoft's
Uninstaller to monitor the install of FTM lets you later uninstall this
superfluous program (and the same for a clean uninstall of their proxy if
you decide you don't want to use it or find that you can't use it).

As I recall, the Start dialog (when you have to manually tell their proxy
client to make a connection) says this program isn't even created by
Microsoft. There was some message at the bottom of the dialog indicating
that Microsoft didn't create this program; however, some of the text was
cutoff because whoever coded this client didn't bother to make it a
DPI-aware program (I upped my DPI from the default of 96 to 120 to make use
of the higher resolution of my LCD monitor so text stays the same size and
also gets sharper).

Microsoft isn't scrambling away from Usenet because of problems with their
NNTP server. According to Microsoft, "The existing newsgroup platform
(NNTP) is running on an outdated version of Microsoft Exchange that has
reached its end-of-life and is no longer supported due to a business
decision taken by Microsoft many years ago. This makes it impossible to
enhance basic functionality, keep the platform secure and deliver a healthy
experience for you and our communities." Operating an NNTP server is not
rocket science as there are many one-person setups in operation worldwide
(I'm using one of them right now to post this message). The problem is with
Microsoft's interface beyond their NNTP server. Apparently the folks in
charge of the NNTP-to-forums interface don't have the budget to get a newer
version of Exchange from their own company.

So you get to install software for a NNTP-to-forum converter proxy despite
that NNTP already has the authentication needed to ensure users log into an
account that is allocated for only their use. This proxy doesn't support
the normal suite of NNTP commands. The interface is flaky. You need to
modify your profile up on their server to enable access via their proxy
client (if you can get at the "My Settings" page). The web-based forums are
slow which also means access using their NNTP-to-forum converter proxy will
also be slow. Oh joy, I just can't wait to devolve to dial-up speeds with
flaky access.
.

That should have read

the microsoft.publics newsgroups are NOT in the list

"Sanwin2" wrote:

Having read about the bridge in this thread I have managed to get it running.
The problem is the microsoft.public newsgroups are in the list. They are
mostly MSDN and Technet

"VanguardLH" wrote:

wrote:

What is Happening?
This message is to inform you that Microsoft will soon begin discontinuing
newsgroups and transitioning users to Microsoft forums.

Why?
snipped the propaganda
To this end, Microsoft will begin to progressively shift available
resources to the forums technology and discontinue support for
newsgroups.

In addition to offering a compelling online browser experience, for those
users who prefer to use an NNTP (newsgroup) reader to participate in the
newsgroups community, we have developed a solution called the NNTP Bridge
which allows a user to connect a variety of supported NNTP readers to the
forums they would like to participate in and continue having the NTTP reader
functionality. You can find instructions on how to download and set up the
NNTP Bridge he http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums/

When will this Happen?
Effective June 1, 2010 this newsgroup will be closed.

The feedback and discussion forums for the "Microsoft Forums NNTP Bridge"
proxy prove how unreliable is Microsoft's solution. It might work but then
stops working, it doesn't support the normal suite of NNTP commands, and a
myriad of other problems reported by users of this gateway. Reading their
forums shows that lots of users can't get their proxy working or keep it
working. Also, access is very s-l-o-w when using their client (as it is
when using their web interface).

Personally I have yet to get their proxy to even connect to their server.
Their proxy pukes with "Your profile was not found" despite creating an
active Microsoft Connect account (which you need to download their client)
and with a validated profile. Their instructions have you visit their
*other* forums to create yet another profile. You must create a forum
profile, not just a Connect profile. Below are their install instructions:

- Go to any of the online forums at http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/forums/
and click "Sign in" in the upper right hand corner of the screen.
Understand the Windows Live ID is the same one that you want to use with
this Client. This is a onetime effort to create your online profile. You
don't need to do this every time you use this application. If you already
have a Windows Live ID that you have used to sign on to any of the forums
below then you can skip this step.
- When logged into forums, users need to click their "My Settings" ...

No matter which of their forum groups that I visit (MSDN, TechNet,
Expressions, Answers, or Microsoft), the only link to my profile settings is
"Create Profile". That has no "My Settings" page which is where you must
visit to enable the "NNTP bridge" access by their client. Their proxy is a
non-solution for me for NNTP-to-forum access. They don't have or are
currently missing the requisite pieces at their web site to enable access to
their web forums using their local client.

When I was logged in and tried to post a message ("Ask a Question"), I got
"Error 500: Sorry, we were unable to service your request. Please try again
later." or "Error 500: The page you are attempting to view is temporarily
unavailable due to system maintenance. Please try again later." depending on
which forum group (MSDN, TechNet, Expressions, Answers, or Microsoft) where
I was attempting to submit a post. Yeah, no big surprise that their web
forums are screwed up again, a long-time ailment of their webnews-for-boobs
interface, too, so maybe that's why I cannot get a "My Settings" page. Yep,
Microsoft sure has provided a reliable venue for community support ... NOT!
Even if an NNTP server goes down, I can always connect to a different one to
access a newsgroup.

It is also an ass-backwards solution. Forums that implement a
forum-to-Usenet gateway (aka a webnews interface) have the gateway run on
their forum's server which links to their NNTP server that peers to the mesh
network of other NNTP servers (aka Usenet). Instead Microsoft wants you to
install their proxy on your host (which is not configurable regarding its
listening port), figure out how to load it on Windows login (since they
don't do that setup), and reconfigure your newsreader to use this local
proxy. The gateway should be running up on *their* server to permit
standard NNTP access to their web-based forums. That this is how the rest
of the world provides a webnews interface but which eludes Microsoft on how
to implement a similar reliable solution. The reason Microsoft is
ass-backwards in their approach is that they want their local proxy to
authenticate to their server, something already provided in the NNTP
protocol but which Microsoft doesn't want to support (despite still doing so
for their private newsgroups). NNTP already has the necessary
authentication to provide login credentials for users to log into validated
accounts on the server. The NNTP server that I'm using to post here
requires me to authenticate (i.e., it is not an anonymous NNTP server and
instead requires me to login to the account that was created for only my use
on that server).

Be aware that Microsoft will demand more than just the install of their
"NNTP bridge" proxy to access their web-based forums. When you attempt to
download their installation file, you are required to also install their
"File Transfer Manager" program which handles the download. You may never
need it again but you'll waste the disk space leaving it on your host
because no entry gets added in the Add/Remove Programs applet in Control
Panel to let you uninstall this fluff that is no longer needed after
downloading their "NNTP bridge" proxy. Using something like Zsoft's
Uninstaller to monitor the install of FTM lets you later uninstall this
superfluous program (and the same for a clean uninstall of their proxy if
you decide you don't want to use it or find that you can't use it).

As I recall, the Start dialog (when you have to manually tell their proxy
client to make a connection) says this program isn't even created by
Microsoft. There was some message at the bottom of the dialog indicating
that Microsoft didn't create this program; however, some of the text was
cutoff because whoever coded this client didn't bother to make it a
DPI-aware program (I upped my DPI from the default of 96 to 120 to make use
of the higher resolution of my LCD monitor so text stays the same size and
also gets sharper).

Microsoft isn't scrambling away from Usenet because of problems with their
NNTP server. According to Microsoft, "The existing newsgroup platform
(NNTP) is running on an outdated version of Microsoft Exchange that has
reached its end-of-life and is no longer supported due to a business
decision taken by Microsoft many years ago. This makes it impossible to
enhance basic functionality, keep the platform secure and deliver a healthy
experience for you and our communities." Operating an NNTP server is not
rocket science as there are many one-person setups in operation worldwide
(I'm using one of them right now to post this message). The problem is with
Microsoft's interface beyond their NNTP server. Apparently the folks in
charge of the NNTP-to-forums interface don't have the budget to get a newer
version of Exchange from their own company.

So you get to install software for a NNTP-to-forum converter proxy despite
that NNTP already has the authentication needed to ensure users log into an
account that is allocated for only their use. This proxy doesn't support
the normal suite of NNTP commands. The interface is flaky. You need to
modify your profile up on their server to enable access via their proxy
client (if you can get at the "My Settings" page). The web-based forums are
slow which also means access using their NNTP-to-forum converter proxy will
also be slow. Oh joy, I just can't wait to devolve to dial-up speeds with
flaky access.
.

VanguardLH wrote:

The feedback and discussion forums for the "Microsoft Forums NNTP Bridge"
proxy prove how unreliable is Microsoft's solution. It might work but then
stops working, it doesn't support the normal suite of NNTP commands, and a
myriad of other problems reported by users of this gateway. Reading their
forums shows that lots of users can't get their proxy working or keep it
working. Also, access is very s-l-o-w when using their client (as it is
when using their web interface).

I got the thing working and now I see why so many users are having severe
problems with this NNTP-to-forums proxy: Microsoft is NOT using a valid
Message-ID value. When you look at the headers for an article retrieved by
their proxy, it has something like:

Message-ID: 20073bca-ecf4-4593-89b4-9fec1443bc4f

Apparently Microsoft can't be bothered to slide in a valid domain-field on
the right-side of an "@" character. A valid MID should look like:

Message-ID:

or more simply:

Message-ID: id-left@id-right

Because many newsreaders use the MID for sorting or threading, the invalid
value is screwing over a lot of newsreaders.

Ben M. Schorr, MVP wrote:

I spent a few minutes the first day and went
around and found all of the forums on topics that interest me and added them
to "My Forums". Now I just view the "My Forums Threads" view which
essentially reduces the whole mess down to one forum.

Nice idea but doesn't work with all their forums. They have yet to unify
all their forums to a common acess interface to permit, for example, adding
any of them to the My Forums list. For example:

http://forum.sysinternals.com/

is the forum for SysInternals utilities. It's off floating separate of all
the other forums. Microsoft would've better spent their time getting all
their communities unified before pretending that a few major groupings of
them represented all their forums. They need to roll ALL their separate
forums under a common interface, even for those forums for products that
Microsoft acquired.

Also, there are newsgroups (via NNTP or via their webnews-for-boobs
"Communities" interface) that will disappear for which there are no
equivalent forums. For example, while the Communities has the
microsoft.public.virtualpc newsgroup (NNTP or webnews interface), I cannot
find an equivalent forum mentioned anywhere that will replace the newsgroup
version. Maybe if they drop NNTP access that they will continue providing
the webnews-for-boobs interface (which, by the way, has no equivalent to the
"My Forums" listing) to those newsgroups that have no matching web-based
forum.

It's a mess now. It will remain a mess for a l-o-n-g time.

Welcome to the new world.

"Sanwin2" wrote in message
...
: That should have read
:
: the microsoft.publics newsgroups are NOT in the list
:
: "Sanwin2" wrote:
:
: Having read about the bridge in this thread I have managed to get it
running.
: The problem is the microsoft.public newsgroups are in the list. They
are
: mostly MSDN and Technet
:
: "VanguardLH" wrote:
:
: wrote:
:
: What is Happening?
: This message is to inform you that Microsoft will soon begin
discontinuing
: newsgroups and transitioning users to Microsoft forums.
:
: Why?
: snipped the propaganda
: To this end, Microsoft will begin to progressively shift available
: resources to the forums technology and discontinue support for
: newsgroups.
:
: In addition to offering a compelling online browser experience, for
those
: users who prefer to use an NNTP (newsgroup) reader to participate in
the
: newsgroups community, we have developed a solution called the NNTP
Bridge
: which allows a user to connect a variety of supported NNTP readers
to the
: forums they would like to participate in and continue having the
NTTP reader
: functionality. You can find instructions on how to download and set
up the
: NNTP Bridge he http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums/
:
: When will this Happen?
: Effective June 1, 2010 this newsgroup will be closed.
:
: The feedback and discussion forums for the "Microsoft Forums NNTP
Bridge"
: proxy prove how unreliable is Microsoft's solution. It might work but
then
: stops working, it doesn't support the normal suite of NNTP commands,
and a
: myriad of other problems reported by users of this gateway. Reading
their
: forums shows that lots of users can't get their proxy working or keep
it
: working. Also, access is very s-l-o-w when using their client (as it
is
: when using their web interface).
:
: Personally I have yet to get their proxy to even connect to their
server.
: Their proxy pukes with "Your profile was not found" despite creating
an
: active Microsoft Connect account (which you need to download their
client)
: and with a validated profile. Their instructions have you visit their
: *other* forums to create yet another profile. You must create a forum
: profile, not just a Connect profile. Below are their install
instructions:
:
: - Go to any of the online forums at
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/forums/
: and click "Sign in" in the upper right hand corner of the screen.
: Understand the Windows Live ID is the same one that you want to use
with
: this Client. This is a onetime effort to create your online profile.
You
: don't need to do this every time you use this application. If you
already
: have a Windows Live ID that you have used to sign on to any of the
forums
: below then you can skip this step.
: - When logged into forums, users need to click their "My Settings" ...
:
: No matter which of their forum groups that I visit (MSDN, TechNet,
: Expressions, Answers, or Microsoft), the only link to my profile
settings is
: "Create Profile". That has no "My Settings" page which is where you
must
: visit to enable the "NNTP bridge" access by their client. Their proxy
is a
: non-solution for me for NNTP-to-forum access. They don't have or are
: currently missing the requisite pieces at their web site to enable
access to
: their web forums using their local client.
:
: When I was logged in and tried to post a message ("Ask a Question"), I
got
: "Error 500: Sorry, we were unable to service your request. Please try
again
: later." or "Error 500: The page you are attempting to view is
temporarily
: unavailable due to system maintenance. Please try again later."
depending on
: which forum group (MSDN, TechNet, Expressions, Answers, or Microsoft)
where
: I was attempting to submit a post. Yeah, no big surprise that their
web
: forums are screwed up again, a long-time ailment of their
webnews-for-boobs
: interface, too, so maybe that's why I cannot get a "My Settings" page.
Yep,
: Microsoft sure has provided a reliable venue for community support ...
NOT!
: Even if an NNTP server goes down, I can always connect to a different
one to
: access a newsgroup.
:
: It is also an ass-backwards solution. Forums that implement a
: forum-to-Usenet gateway (aka a webnews interface) have the gateway run
on
: their forum's server which links to their NNTP server that peers to
the mesh
: network of other NNTP servers (aka Usenet). Instead Microsoft wants
you to
: install their proxy on your host (which is not configurable regarding
its
: listening port), figure out how to load it on Windows login (since
they
: don't do that setup), and reconfigure your newsreader to use this
local
: proxy. The gateway should be running up on *their* server to permit
: standard NNTP access to their web-based forums. That this is how the
rest
: of the world provides a webnews interface but which eludes Microsoft
on how
: to implement a similar reliable solution. The reason Microsoft is
: ass-backwards in their approach is that they want their local proxy to
: authenticate to their server, something already provided in the NNTP
: protocol but which Microsoft doesn't want to support (despite still
doing so
: for their private newsgroups). NNTP already has the necessary
: authentication to provide login credentials for users to log into
validated
: accounts on the server. The NNTP server that I'm using to post here
: requires me to authenticate (i.e., it is not an anonymous NNTP server
and
: instead requires me to login to the account that was created for only
my use
: on that server).
:
: Be aware that Microsoft will demand more than just the install of
their
: "NNTP bridge" proxy to access their web-based forums. When you
attempt to
: download their installation file, you are required to also install
their
: "File Transfer Manager" program which handles the download. You may
never
: need it again but you'll waste the disk space leaving it on your host
: because no entry gets added in the Add/Remove Programs applet in
Control
: Panel to let you uninstall this fluff that is no longer needed after
: downloading their "NNTP bridge" proxy. Using something like Zsoft's
: Uninstaller to monitor the install of FTM lets you later uninstall
this
: superfluous program (and the same for a clean uninstall of their proxy
if
: you decide you don't want to use it or find that you can't use it).
:
: As I recall, the Start dialog (when you have to manually tell their
proxy
: client to make a connection) says this program isn't even created by
: Microsoft. There was some message at the bottom of the dialog
indicating
: that Microsoft didn't create this program; however, some of the text
was
: cutoff because whoever coded this client didn't bother to make it a
: DPI-aware program (I upped my DPI from the default of 96 to 120 to
make use
: of the higher resolution of my LCD monitor so text stays the same size
and
: also gets sharper).
:
: Microsoft isn't scrambling away from Usenet because of problems with
their
: NNTP server. According to Microsoft, "The existing newsgroup platform
: (NNTP) is running on an outdated version of Microsoft Exchange that
has
: reached its end-of-life and is no longer supported due to a business
: decision taken by Microsoft many years ago. This makes it impossible
to
: enhance basic functionality, keep the platform secure and deliver a
healthy
: experience for you and our communities." Operating an NNTP server is
not
: rocket science as there are many one-person setups in operation
worldwide
: (I'm using one of them right now to post this message). The problem
is with
: Microsoft's interface beyond their NNTP server. Apparently the folks
in
: charge of the NNTP-to-forums interface don't have the budget to get a
newer
: version of Exchange from their own company.
:
: So you get to install software for a NNTP-to-forum converter proxy
despite
: that NNTP already has the authentication needed to ensure users log
into an
: account that is allocated for only their use. This proxy doesn't
support
: the normal suite of NNTP commands. The interface is flaky. You need
to
: modify your profile up on their server to enable access via their
proxy
: client (if you can get at the "My Settings" page). The web-based
forums are
: slow which also means access using their NNTP-to-forum converter proxy
will
: also be slow. Oh joy, I just can't wait to devolve to dial-up speeds
with
: flaky access.
: .
:

Sanwin2;145588 Wrote:
That should have read

the microsoft.publics newsgroups are NOT in the list

"Sanwin2" wrote:

Having read about the bridge in this thread I have managed to get it
running.
The problem is the microsoft.public newsgroups are in the list. They
are
mostly MSDN and Technet

They aren't supposed to be in the list - they are being closed. There
are 3 Outlook forums at Answers to replace the newsgroups. Send/receive
issues, calendar/contacts and install/set up questions. It's good to
drop down to 3 IMHO - public.outlook was never supposed to be used as a
newsgroup and the others don't get a lot of traffic - General (this one)
gets the most.

We're hoping to get one more added for Outlook - for programming
questions.


--
Slipstick

'Outlook & Exchange Solutions Center' (http://www.slipstick.com)

'Outlook Tips' (http://www.outlook-tips.net/)

--
http://forums.slipstick.com

"Slipstick" wrote:


Sanwin2;145588 Wrote:
That should have read

the microsoft.publics newsgroups are NOT in the list

"Sanwin2" wrote:

Having read about the bridge in this thread I have managed to get it
running.
The problem is the microsoft.public newsgroups are in the list. They
are
mostly MSDN and Technet

They aren't supposed to be in the list - they are being closed. There
are 3 Outlook forums at Answers to replace the newsgroups. Send/receive
issues, calendar/contacts and install/set up questions. It's good to
drop down to 3 IMHO - public.outlook was never supposed to be used as a
newsgroup and the others don't get a lot of traffic - General (this one)
gets the most.

We're hoping to get one more added for Outlook - for programming
questions.


--
Slipstick

'Outlook & Exchange Solutions Center' (http://www.slipstick.com)

'Outlook Tips' (http://www.outlook-tips.net/)

Thanks for that, I am currently reading via
http://www.microsoft.com/office/community/
which matches the newsgroups and I had presumed that this online forum would
continue and nntp access be turned off. I'll have another look amongst
Answers for replacements for the Outlook, and Word groups I currently read.