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Setting up Observation Database



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 30th, 2009, 10:08 PM posted to microsoft.public.access.tablesdbdesign
Gina Whipp
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,500
Default Setting up Observation Database

Steve,

I guess you missed this question then...

"Should I have an ObserverID fk in tblQuestion since each
observer must address all 20 questions with each observation?"

....that question is what I was replying to. I did not mention anything
about redesign or wrong tables. I did mention a table to join Observer and
AnswersToQuestions because of the question posted but I guess you missed
that also.

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Firstly, the OP's tables are correctly designed. Why would you recommend
he look at a survey database? Secondly, you said "You will need a *joiner*
table. Again, the OP's tables are correctly designed. He doesn't need any
more tables!!! Your recommendation was completely erroneous and would only
serve to confuse the OP further.


"Gina Whipp" wrote in message
...
Steve,

Huh? I never said the tables were wrong. DSmith has Questions that
don't change and therefore adding ObserverID to tblQuestions would be an
issue and not work properly. Why would that information be wrong? I
offered a survey database example that gives a wonderful example of how a
survey would set up AND gave an example of how you deal with questions
that don't change. And while that database might be confusing to you
let's give DSmith a change to examine and make that determination.

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" -
Tremors II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Ignore Ms. Whipp's response; it's wrong and will just confuse you more!

Your tables are correct!!!!!

Read my previous response and just connect the primary keys and foreign
keys for your relationships. In other words, connect each fieldname
ending in "ID" in a table with the same field name in the table that
defines the details of that fieldname. For example, connect ObserverID
in TblObservation to ObserverID in TblObserver.

Steve


"dsmith via AccessMonster.com" u56186@uwe wrote in message
news:9fde7f6b399a5@uwe...
Thanks Steve and Gina
my table structure is below:
There are 20 questions that each observer must review each time they do
a
field observation. They must indicate the location of the observation
and the
results of the review, i.e. safe, at risk, or na. What should my
relationships be? I'm having problems getting the tables to relate to
each
other on my form. Should I have an ObserverID fk in tblQuestion since
each
observer must address all 20 questions with each observation?

TblQuestion
QstnID
QstnText
QstnType

TblObserver
ObserverID
FirstName
LastName
ObserverDept

TblLocation
LocationID
Location

TblObservation
ObservationID
ObservationDate
ObserverID

TblLocationObservation
LocationObservationID
ObservationID
LocationID
QstnID
LocationObservation

Steve wrote:
I follow a standard when setting up tables. All tables begin with "Tbl"
and
the first field in the table has the name of the table followed by
"ID". The
data type is autonumber. This is the primary key of each record and
identifies the table where the record is stored any time you see the
field
name in the database. In subsequent fields, I use the name of the first
field in a table when referring to a record in another table. This
(these)
is (are) foreign keys. For example, In TblObservation, ObserverID is a
foreign key and refers to a specific observer in TblObserver. In
TblLocationObservation, ObservationID is a foreign key that relates a
record
to a specific observation in TblObservation. Thus you can have a list
of
safety observations by a specific observer on a specific date.
LocationID In
TblLocationObservation is a foreign key and refers to a specific
location
(maybe Dept X) in Tbllocation. ProcedureID In TblLocationObservation is
a
foreign key and refers to a specific Procedure (maybe Stair/Ladder Use)
in
TblProcedure.

Steve


Thanks Steve,
I made some progress but I think I've managed to totally confuse
myself
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
my
tables and how they relate. Can you help me?

--
Message posted via http://www.accessmonster.com









  #12  
Old December 1st, 2009, 02:14 AM posted to microsoft.public.access.tablesdbdesign
Steve[_77_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,017
Default Setting up Observation Database

You missed the OP's question!!! He asked "What should my relationships be?"


"Gina Whipp" wrote in message
...
Steve,

I guess you missed this question then...

"Should I have an ObserverID fk in tblQuestion since each
observer must address all 20 questions with each observation?"

...that question is what I was replying to. I did not mention anything
about redesign or wrong tables. I did mention a table to join Observer
and AnswersToQuestions because of the question posted but I guess you
missed that also.

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Firstly, the OP's tables are correctly designed. Why would you recommend
he look at a survey database? Secondly, you said "You will need a
*joiner* table. Again, the OP's tables are correctly designed. He doesn't
need any more tables!!! Your recommendation was completely erroneous and
would only serve to confuse the OP further.


"Gina Whipp" wrote in message
...
Steve,

Huh? I never said the tables were wrong. DSmith has Questions that
don't change and therefore adding ObserverID to tblQuestions would be an
issue and not work properly. Why would that information be wrong? I
offered a survey database example that gives a wonderful example of how
a survey would set up AND gave an example of how you deal with questions
that don't change. And while that database might be confusing to you
let's give DSmith a change to examine and make that determination.

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" -
Tremors II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Ignore Ms. Whipp's response; it's wrong and will just confuse you more!

Your tables are correct!!!!!

Read my previous response and just connect the primary keys and foreign
keys for your relationships. In other words, connect each fieldname
ending in "ID" in a table with the same field name in the table that
defines the details of that fieldname. For example, connect ObserverID
in TblObservation to ObserverID in TblObserver.

Steve


"dsmith via AccessMonster.com" u56186@uwe wrote in message
news:9fde7f6b399a5@uwe...
Thanks Steve and Gina
my table structure is below:
There are 20 questions that each observer must review each time they
do a
field observation. They must indicate the location of the observation
and the
results of the review, i.e. safe, at risk, or na. What should my
relationships be? I'm having problems getting the tables to relate to
each
other on my form. Should I have an ObserverID fk in tblQuestion since
each
observer must address all 20 questions with each observation?

TblQuestion
QstnID
QstnText
QstnType

TblObserver
ObserverID
FirstName
LastName
ObserverDept

TblLocation
LocationID
Location

TblObservation
ObservationID
ObservationDate
ObserverID

TblLocationObservation
LocationObservationID
ObservationID
LocationID
QstnID
LocationObservation

Steve wrote:
I follow a standard when setting up tables. All tables begin with
"Tbl" and
the first field in the table has the name of the table followed by
"ID". The
data type is autonumber. This is the primary key of each record and
identifies the table where the record is stored any time you see the
field
name in the database. In subsequent fields, I use the name of the
first
field in a table when referring to a record in another table. This
(these)
is (are) foreign keys. For example, In TblObservation, ObserverID is a
foreign key and refers to a specific observer in TblObserver. In
TblLocationObservation, ObservationID is a foreign key that relates a
record
to a specific observation in TblObservation. Thus you can have a list
of
safety observations by a specific observer on a specific date.
LocationID In
TblLocationObservation is a foreign key and refers to a specific
location
(maybe Dept X) in Tbllocation. ProcedureID In TblLocationObservation
is a
foreign key and refers to a specific Procedure (maybe Stair/Ladder
Use) in
TblProcedure.

Steve


Thanks Steve,
I made some progress but I think I've managed to totally confuse
myself
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
my
tables and how they relate. Can you help me?

--
Message posted via http://www.accessmonster.com











  #13  
Old December 1st, 2009, 02:31 AM posted to microsoft.public.access.tablesdbdesign
Gina Whipp
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,500
Default Setting up Observation Database

You OBVIOUSLY did not read my reply... I made reference to the reviewing
the Relationships in the database I recommended for assistance in setting
them up.

This is going no where... You are looking for a reason to argue and I was
simply answering a post.

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Steve" wrote in message
...
You missed the OP's question!!! He asked "What should my relationships
be?"


"Gina Whipp" wrote in message
...
Steve,

I guess you missed this question then...

"Should I have an ObserverID fk in tblQuestion since each
observer must address all 20 questions with each observation?"

...that question is what I was replying to. I did not mention anything
about redesign or wrong tables. I did mention a table to join Observer
and AnswersToQuestions because of the question posted but I guess you
missed that also.

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" -
Tremors II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Firstly, the OP's tables are correctly designed. Why would you recommend
he look at a survey database? Secondly, you said "You will need a
*joiner* table. Again, the OP's tables are correctly designed. He
doesn't need any more tables!!! Your recommendation was completely
erroneous and would only serve to confuse the OP further.


"Gina Whipp" wrote in message
...
Steve,

Huh? I never said the tables were wrong. DSmith has Questions that
don't change and therefore adding ObserverID to tblQuestions would be
an issue and not work properly. Why would that information be wrong?
I offered a survey database example that gives a wonderful example of
how a survey would set up AND gave an example of how you deal with
questions that don't change. And while that database might be
confusing to you let's give DSmith a change to examine and make that
determination.

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" -
Tremors II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Ignore Ms. Whipp's response; it's wrong and will just confuse you
more!

Your tables are correct!!!!!

Read my previous response and just connect the primary keys and
foreign keys for your relationships. In other words, connect each
fieldname ending in "ID" in a table with the same field name in the
table that defines the details of that fieldname. For example, connect
ObserverID in TblObservation to ObserverID in TblObserver.

Steve


"dsmith via AccessMonster.com" u56186@uwe wrote in message
news:9fde7f6b399a5@uwe...
Thanks Steve and Gina
my table structure is below:
There are 20 questions that each observer must review each time they
do a
field observation. They must indicate the location of the observation
and the
results of the review, i.e. safe, at risk, or na. What should my
relationships be? I'm having problems getting the tables to relate to
each
other on my form. Should I have an ObserverID fk in tblQuestion since
each
observer must address all 20 questions with each observation?

TblQuestion
QstnID
QstnText
QstnType

TblObserver
ObserverID
FirstName
LastName
ObserverDept

TblLocation
LocationID
Location

TblObservation
ObservationID
ObservationDate
ObserverID

TblLocationObservation
LocationObservationID
ObservationID
LocationID
QstnID
LocationObservation

Steve wrote:
I follow a standard when setting up tables. All tables begin with
"Tbl" and
the first field in the table has the name of the table followed by
"ID". The
data type is autonumber. This is the primary key of each record and
identifies the table where the record is stored any time you see the
field
name in the database. In subsequent fields, I use the name of the
first
field in a table when referring to a record in another table. This
(these)
is (are) foreign keys. For example, In TblObservation, ObserverID is
a
foreign key and refers to a specific observer in TblObserver. In
TblLocationObservation, ObservationID is a foreign key that relates a
record
to a specific observation in TblObservation. Thus you can have a list
of
safety observations by a specific observer on a specific date.
LocationID In
TblLocationObservation is a foreign key and refers to a specific
location
(maybe Dept X) in Tbllocation. ProcedureID In TblLocationObservation
is a
foreign key and refers to a specific Procedure (maybe Stair/Ladder
Use) in
TblProcedure.

Steve


Thanks Steve,
I made some progress but I think I've managed to totally confuse
myself
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
my
tables and how they relate. Can you help me?

--
Message posted via http://www.accessmonster.com













  #14  
Old December 1st, 2009, 09:51 AM posted to microsoft.public.access.tablesdbdesign
Keith Wilby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 812
Default Setting up Observation Database

"Gina Whipp" wrote in message
...

You are looking for a reason to argue and I was simply answering a post.



Don't try to engage in a battle of wits with an un-armed opponent.

  #15  
Old December 1st, 2009, 10:37 AM posted to microsoft.public.access.tablesdbdesign
Arno R[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Setting up Observation Database


"Steve" schreef in bericht
...
Firstly, the OP's tables are correctly designed. Why would you recommend he look at a
survey database? Secondly, you said "You will need a *joiner* table. Again, the OP's
tables are correctly designed. He doesn't need any more tables!!! Your recommendation
was completely erroneous and would only serve to confuse the OP further.



Hi $teve, why are you constantly making a fool of yourself ??
Simply put: Gina is right and you are not... You are acting very childish *again*
Also: You are simply not understanding the question and/or not reading properly...
(as usual)

OP asked
"Should I have an ObserverID fk in tblQuestion since each observer must address all 20 questions with each observation?"
The answer has been given by Gina..
"no you shouls not have ObserverID in tblQuestion"
This is a correct answer while you state that it is wrong...! (only typo there)

The OP tells us: "Supervisors will observe procedures and mark them as "safe" or "at-risk"
So we need a *joiner* table to collect these observations. Gina is right on this...
This *joiner* is your proposed TblLocationObservation I guess.

BUT:
The OP's tables (you mean yours??) are *not* quite right...
The proposed table TblObservation as such is completely *nonsense*!
You are storing *what* here?? Date and Observer... Related to what ??
You are missing Location??

Maybe the ObservationDate from TblObservation easily be stored in the table TblLocationObservation.
Also things like ObservationTime and such...
Well to be honest... it depends on whether we need the day-time per procedure that we check....
But we definitely don't need the tblObservation as you proposed....
confusing and erroneous indeed....


To the OP:
== I would consider each and every answer given by $teve as 'At-Risk'
== I would consider each and every answer given by Gina's as "Safe"

Also I would try to give *meaningful* names to the fields.
That can be very helpful to 'understand' the information we are gathering.

The supposed fieldname 'LocationObservation' does indeed serve to confuse...
Why not use ProcedureObservation instead ?

Regards, Arno R


  #16  
Old December 1st, 2009, 04:15 PM posted to microsoft.public.access.tablesdbdesign
Gina Whipp
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,500
Default Setting up Observation Database

smile

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Keith Wilby" wrote in message
...
"Gina Whipp" wrote in message
...

You are looking for a reason to argue and I was simply answering a post.



Don't try to engage in a battle of wits with an un-armed opponent.



  #17  
Old December 1st, 2009, 04:15 PM posted to microsoft.public.access.tablesdbdesign
Gina Whipp
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,500
Default Setting up Observation Database

smile

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Keith Wilby" wrote in message
...
"Gina Whipp" wrote in message
...

You are looking for a reason to argue and I was simply answering a post.



Don't try to engage in a battle of wits with an un-armed opponent.



  #18  
Old December 1st, 2009, 04:15 PM posted to microsoft.public.access.tablesdbdesign
Gina Whipp
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,500
Default Setting up Observation Database

smile

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Keith Wilby" wrote in message
...
"Gina Whipp" wrote in message
...

You are looking for a reason to argue and I was simply answering a post.



Don't try to engage in a battle of wits with an un-armed opponent.



  #19  
Old December 5th, 2009, 11:13 PM posted to microsoft.public.access.tablesdbdesign
dsmith via AccessMonster.com
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Setting up Observation Database

Thanks guys,
I finally got it working...I appreciate your willingness to help those of us
trying to learn. Access is a great program...hopefully I will learn enough to
share in the future.

Arno R wrote:
Firstly, the OP's tables are correctly designed. Why would you recommend he look at a
survey database? Secondly, you said "You will need a *joiner* table. Again, the OP's
tables are correctly designed. He doesn't need any more tables!!! Your recommendation
was completely erroneous and would only serve to confuse the OP further.


Hi $teve, why are you constantly making a fool of yourself ??
Simply put: Gina is right and you are not... You are acting very childish *again*
Also: You are simply not understanding the question and/or not reading properly...
(as usual)

OP asked
"Should I have an ObserverID fk in tblQuestion since each observer must address all 20 questions with each observation?"
The answer has been given by Gina..
"no you shouls not have ObserverID in tblQuestion"
This is a correct answer while you state that it is wrong...! (only typo there)

The OP tells us: "Supervisors will observe procedures and mark them as "safe" or "at-risk"
So we need a *joiner* table to collect these observations. Gina is right on this...
This *joiner* is your proposed TblLocationObservation I guess.

BUT:
The OP's tables (you mean yours??) are *not* quite right...
The proposed table TblObservation as such is completely *nonsense*!
You are storing *what* here?? Date and Observer... Related to what ??
You are missing Location??

Maybe the ObservationDate from TblObservation easily be stored in the table TblLocationObservation.
Also things like ObservationTime and such...
Well to be honest... it depends on whether we need the day-time per procedure that we check....
But we definitely don't need the tblObservation as you proposed....
confusing and erroneous indeed....

To the OP:
== I would consider each and every answer given by $teve as 'At-Risk'
== I would consider each and every answer given by Gina's as "Safe"

Also I would try to give *meaningful* names to the fields.
That can be very helpful to 'understand' the information we are gathering.

The supposed fieldname 'LocationObservation' does indeed serve to confuse...
Why not use ProcedureObservation instead ?

Regards, Arno R


--
Message posted via http://www.accessmonster.com

 




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