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#32
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Programs that Delete Word Settings (Was Reading Layout View)
Hi Stephen
To my mind a "cleaner" should remove garbage or dirt, which is to say unwanted things. A program that advertises that it "cleans" should not delete data used by a program or a user. We might disagree over what is wanted data and what is garbage. My view is that users need the settings stored in the Word data key, and no cleaner should remove them without warning. CCleaner has had quite a lot of press in the Word newsgroups. (see http://groups.google.com.au/groups?q....*& start=10). I contacted CCleaner in April this year to warn them that their cleaner was scrubbing a bit too hard, but I did not get an acknowledgement or response. Hope this helps. Shauna Kelly. Microsoft MVP. http://www.shaunakelly.com/word wrote in message ups.com... Shauna Kelly wrote: And then write a very angry letter to the makers of the software! I had a similar problem, described below, and posted an angry letter to the CCleaner forum. In the end I am not sure I was justified. The developer's advocate shifted the blame to Microsoft, perhaps not unreasonably. What do you think? My Posting: CCleaner deletes MS Word data key in registry, Bug that resets Word 2003 setting to default Such a problem has been reported with regard to registry cleaners in Microsoft forums . The odd thing here is that using only the temp cleaner and trash emptier alone--even when the temp cleaner says it deleted 0 bytes--resets Word 2003 setting to default. The pattern of affected setting make it clear it is deleting either the data key or the Settings value from the data key. If this serious bug has not been previously reported, it is probably because many users either don't reset Word settings from default or don't recognize the difference after resetting. Latest version of CCleaner Advocate's first response: This has been known for well over 1 1/2 years now, and a forum search would have revealed such information. If you wish to use Word 2003 with your settings intact you'll have to untick the cleaning of Office 2003 in CCleaner Taking your advice (to shift blame too g, I get angry: Amazing. I am expected to do a forum search to discover that a product widely promoted on the net has a bug that hasn't been resolved for over 1 1/2 years. Misleading promotion, if you ask me. Eventually consumers will wise up to the fact that a free product is no excuse for incompetent programming. No product is free; surely the developer obtains benefits from promoting his product, and owes a duty of informed consent to users. Expecting a response in kind, I read this quite reasonable answer: The problem isn't the developer, or the product CCleaner. Any other cleaning app that also offers to clean Office 2003 will probably result into the same problem because Microsoft placed some of the MRU lists within the actual settings such is the case in Word 2003. Hence the reason to only clean the list inside of Word 2003, and not use any other program to do it. To my knowledge that's the only way to clean Word 2003 without losing all settings. The same can also extend to other Office 2003 apps. To safely clean things like Publisher 2003, etc., without enabling the full cleaning of Office 2003 (which I myself will never enable again since I use Office 2003) check out the winapp2.ini add-on, the Publisher 2003 and Script Editor 2003 cleaning routines I submitted and know they're safe and non-destructive to settings. A tip before using any cleaning program on MS Office 2003 is to go into: Start All Programs Microsoft Office Microsoft Office Tools Microsoft Office 2003 Save My Settings Wizard With Microsoft Office 2003 Save My Settings Wizard you can also restore your settings, and it works like a charm between WinXP re-installs too. Here's just a few other threads on it: http://forum.ccleaner.com/index. php?showtopic=4089 http://forum.ccleaner.com/index.php?showtopic=3935 http://forum.ccleaner.com/index.php?showtopic=3073 http://forum. ccleaner.com/index.php?showtopic=2940 http://forum.ccleaner.com/index. php?showtopic=1222 [/End quote] Stephen Diamond |
#33
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Programs that Delete Word Settings (Was Reading Layout View)
I want to clarify that the software I was using wasn't CCleaner but Disk
Cleaner--with the same result. I posted the problem as a bug (not an angry letter) on December 13th, but no one responded. Then on 12/22 someone reported a similar bug in which he was losing his user settings, and this time there were a few responses, including the suggestion to fix the Office plugin so that it only cleans out junk files and not registry settings. -Andrea wrote: Shauna Kelly wrote: And then write a very angry letter to the makers of the software! I had a similar problem, described below, and posted an angry letter to the CCleaner forum. In the end I am not sure I was justified. The developer's advocate shifted the blame to Microsoft, perhaps not unreasonably. What do you think? My Posting: CCleaner deletes MS Word data key in registry, Bug that resets Word 2003 setting to default Such a problem has been reported with regard to registry cleaners in Microsoft forums . The odd thing here is that using only the temp cleaner and trash emptier alone--even when the temp cleaner says it deleted 0 bytes--resets Word 2003 setting to default. The pattern of affected setting make it clear it is deleting either the data key or the Settings value from the data key. If this serious bug has not been previously reported, it is probably because many users either don't reset Word settings from default or don't recognize the difference after resetting. Latest version of CCleaner Advocate's first response: This has been known for well over 1 1/2 years now, and a forum search would have revealed such information. If you wish to use Word 2003 with your settings intact you'll have to untick the cleaning of Office 2003 in CCleaner Taking your advice (to shift blame too g, I get angry: Amazing. I am expected to do a forum search to discover that a product widely promoted on the net has a bug that hasn't been resolved for over 1 1/2 years. Misleading promotion, if you ask me. Eventually consumers will wise up to the fact that a free product is no excuse for incompetent programming. No product is free; surely the developer obtains benefits from promoting his product, and owes a duty of informed consent to users. Expecting a response in kind, I read this quite reasonable answer: The problem isn't the developer, or the product CCleaner. Any other cleaning app that also offers to clean Office 2003 will probably result into the same problem because Microsoft placed some of the MRU lists within the actual settings such is the case in Word 2003. Hence the reason to only clean the list inside of Word 2003, and not use any other program to do it. To my knowledge that's the only way to clean Word 2003 without losing all settings. The same can also extend to other Office 2003 apps. To safely clean things like Publisher 2003, etc., without enabling the full cleaning of Office 2003 (which I myself will never enable again since I use Office 2003) check out the winapp2.ini add-on, the Publisher 2003 and Script Editor 2003 cleaning routines I submitted and know they're safe and non-destructive to settings. A tip before using any cleaning program on MS Office 2003 is to go into: Start All Programs Microsoft Office Microsoft Office Tools Microsoft Office 2003 Save My Settings Wizard With Microsoft Office 2003 Save My Settings Wizard you can also restore your settings, and it works like a charm between WinXP re-installs too. Here's just a few other threads on it: http://forum.ccleaner.com/index. php?showtopic=4089 http://forum.ccleaner.com/index.php?showtopic=3935 http://forum.ccleaner.com/index.php?showtopic=3073 http://forum. ccleaner.com/index.php?showtopic=2940 http://forum.ccleaner.com/index. php?showtopic=1222 [/End quote] Stephen Diamond |
#34
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Programs that Delete Word Settings (Was Reading Layout View)
If some people want or need such thorough cleaning that their settings
have to be sacrificed in the process, I'm glad CCleaner provides this capability for them. But it isn't a behavior the user has any reason to expect. There must be a mechanism to bring the behavior to the user's attention before the effect is felt. One obvious way would be to turn Office cleaning OFF by default and pop-up a warning when the user checks Office. At this point, the CCleaner developer's irresponsible marketing of the product has destroyed the confidence in a product I need to allow it access to my registry, and I have deleted CCleaner. |
#35
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Programs that Delete Word Settings (Was Reading Layout View)
In the hands of people who don't know what they are doing, registry cleaners
do more harm than good. It's all very well having a smaller registry, which might save a few seconds when you open Windows, but if the required entries are scrubbed along the way, then the applications may not work properly and in a worst case Windows will not start. Some of these applications also remove 'redundant' dlls! Disaster in the hands of the unwary -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org wrote: If some people want or need such thorough cleaning that their settings have to be sacrificed in the process, I'm glad CCleaner provides this capability for them. But it isn't a behavior the user has any reason to expect. There must be a mechanism to bring the behavior to the user's attention before the effect is felt. One obvious way would be to turn Office cleaning OFF by default and pop-up a warning when the user checks Office. At this point, the CCleaner developer's irresponsible marketing of the product has destroyed the confidence in a product I need to allow it access to my registry, and I have deleted CCleaner. |
#36
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Programs that Delete Word Settings (Was Reading Layout View)
I understand that even a massively inflated registry has no significant
effect on anything except the length of time required to search the registry. Yet despite this knowledge, it is hard to eschew registry cleaning. I don't know why exactly. There's something like a pre-wire intution that if your remove 1,000 useless registry entries, it has to imply there was a problem. I myself don't run any serious risks, because I never proceed without a full disk image. Worst case scenario, I lose 20 minutes while I restore the disk. Sometimes problems arise with applications long afterwards, but here the worse case is a reinstallation of the application. Still, why waste the time. Registry cleaning may qualify as an addiction. Stephen R. Diamond Graham Mayor wrote: In the hands of people who don't know what they are doing, registry cleaners do more harm than good. It's all very well having a smaller registry, which might save a few seconds when you open Windows, but if the required entries are scrubbed along the way, then the applications may not work properly and in a worst case Windows will not start. Some of these applications also remove 'redundant' dlls! Disaster in the hands of the unwary -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org wrote: If some people want or need such thorough cleaning that their settings have to be sacrificed in the process, I'm glad CCleaner provides this capability for them. But it isn't a behavior the user has any reason to expect. There must be a mechanism to bring the behavior to the user's attention before the effect is felt. One obvious way would be to turn Office cleaning OFF by default and pop-up a warning when the user checks Office. At this point, the CCleaner developer's irresponsible marketing of the product has destroyed the confidence in a product I need to allow it access to my registry, and I have deleted CCleaner. |
#37
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Programs that Delete Word Settings (Was Reading Layout View)
I understand that even a massively inflated registry has no significant
effect on anything except the length of time required to search the registry. Yet despite this knowledge, it is hard to eschew registry cleaning. I don't know why exactly. There's something like a pre-wire intution that if your remove 1,000 useless registry entries, it has to imply there was a problem. I myself don't run any serious risks, because I never proceed without a full disk image. Worst case scenario, I lose 20 minutes while I restore the disk. Sometimes problems arise with applications long afterwards, but here the worse case is a reinstallation of the application. Still, why waste the time. Registry cleaning may qualify as an addiction. Stephen R. Diamond Graham Mayor wrote: In the hands of people who don't know what they are doing, registry cleaners do more harm than good. It's all very well having a smaller registry, which might save a few seconds when you open Windows, but if the required entries are scrubbed along the way, then the applications may not work properly and in a worst case Windows will not start. Some of these applications also remove 'redundant' dlls! Disaster in the hands of the unwary -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org wrote: If some people want or need such thorough cleaning that their settings have to be sacrificed in the process, I'm glad CCleaner provides this capability for them. But it isn't a behavior the user has any reason to expect. There must be a mechanism to bring the behavior to the user's attention before the effect is felt. One obvious way would be to turn Office cleaning OFF by default and pop-up a warning when the user checks Office. At this point, the CCleaner developer's irresponsible marketing of the product has destroyed the confidence in a product I need to allow it access to my registry, and I have deleted CCleaner. |
#38
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Programs that Delete Word Settings (Was Reading Layout View)
I understand that even a massively inflated registry has no significant
effect on anything except the length of time required to search the registry. Yet despite this knowledge, it is hard to eschew registry cleaning. I don't know why exactly. There's something like a pre-wire intution that if your remove 1,000 useless registry entries, it has to imply there was a problem. I myself don't run any serious risks, because I never proceed without a full disk image. Worst case scenario, I lose 20 minutes while I restore the disk. Sometimes problems arise with applications long afterwards, but here the worse case is a reinstallation of the application. Still, why waste the time. Registry cleaning may qualify as an addiction. Stephen R. Diamond Graham Mayor wrote: In the hands of people who don't know what they are doing, registry cleaners do more harm than good. It's all very well having a smaller registry, which might save a few seconds when you open Windows, but if the required entries are scrubbed along the way, then the applications may not work properly and in a worst case Windows will not start. Some of these applications also remove 'redundant' dlls! Disaster in the hands of the unwary -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org wrote: If some people want or need such thorough cleaning that their settings have to be sacrificed in the process, I'm glad CCleaner provides this capability for them. But it isn't a behavior the user has any reason to expect. There must be a mechanism to bring the behavior to the user's attention before the effect is felt. One obvious way would be to turn Office cleaning OFF by default and pop-up a warning when the user checks Office. At this point, the CCleaner developer's irresponsible marketing of the product has destroyed the confidence in a product I need to allow it access to my registry, and I have deleted CCleaner. |
#39
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Programs that Delete Word Settings (Was Reading Layout View)
However it might stop your PC coughing out posts in triplicate?
-- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org wrote: I understand that even a massively inflated registry has no significant effect on anything except the length of time required to search the registry. Yet despite this knowledge, it is hard to eschew registry cleaning. I don't know why exactly. There's something like a pre-wire intution that if your remove 1,000 useless registry entries, it has to imply there was a problem. I myself don't run any serious risks, because I never proceed without a full disk image. Worst case scenario, I lose 20 minutes while I restore the disk. Sometimes problems arise with applications long afterwards, but here the worse case is a reinstallation of the application. Still, why waste the time. Registry cleaning may qualify as an addiction. Stephen R. Diamond Graham Mayor wrote: In the hands of people who don't know what they are doing, registry cleaners do more harm than good. It's all very well having a smaller registry, which might save a few seconds when you open Windows, but if the required entries are scrubbed along the way, then the applications may not work properly and in a worst case Windows will not start. Some of these applications also remove 'redundant' dlls! Disaster in the hands of the unwary -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org wrote: If some people want or need such thorough cleaning that their settings have to be sacrificed in the process, I'm glad CCleaner provides this capability for them. But it isn't a behavior the user has any reason to expect. There must be a mechanism to bring the behavior to the user's attention before the effect is felt. One obvious way would be to turn Office cleaning OFF by default and pop-up a warning when the user checks Office. At this point, the CCleaner developer's irresponsible marketing of the product has destroyed the confidence in a product I need to allow it access to my registry, and I have deleted CCleaner. |
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