Access is just to hard to understand

Only your interpretation of the rules you pompous ass!!!


"Larry Linson" wrote in message
...
"PC Datasheet" wrote

I don't rip off customers.

I'd be awfully cautious about hiring someone who's demonstrated that he
cannot understand or is not willing to follow the rules of USENET
newsgroups.

"Harold via AccessMonster.com" wrote in message
...
Tom wrote:
Im sitting here in front of my computer, Ive been here all day. Next to
me is
about $200 worth of Access books, and a stack of Access information I
printed
off the internet. ive just finished a community college class on Access,
I
got an "A", (what a joke). Here I sit, and I still cant make one
database.
This has got to be one of the most frustrating things Ive ever attempted.
Im
not sure if I going to just give up tring to learn Access or not. After
all
the time and effort I have put in I hate the thought of just quiting. I
guess
all I can do is write this post. I feel like Im right on the verge of
understanding, but how long do I wait for that.

Just had to get it out...

Tom
I had no idea I would get such a responce. Thank you to all who wrote. I
was
writing at a very low moment in my Access learning curve. I feel much
better
knowing Im not alone in the struggle. Im also working through my problems
with Access with all of the help Im recieving from you all. Thanks again.

Tom


--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com

http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...arted/200508/1

Heheheh, you sound like a man in therapy, Tom!

Conservatively assuming the developer billed at $50 per hour, he billed
eighty hours and his fee was $4000. Say he billed at $25 per hour, he billed
160 hours and his fee was $4000. So in all likelihood the developer spent
between 80 and 160 hours on the project. I have worked on many of those
kinds of projects (and presumably Mr. Lake has too) and I have not charged
$4000.

So why don't you just mind your own business and not make unsubstantiated
statements.

Steve
PC Datasheet


"Baz" wrote in message
...

"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
ink.net...
You don't make any sense at all, Larry!!!

You didn't work two thousand hours for $4000. What I'm saying is that for
a
job which you charge $4000, I could have done it for much less. I don't
rip
off customers. And I see that I'm not alone - read Mr. Lake's response to
your dribble. Perhaps you all are afraid of the competition. And for
experience, let's not forget you approached me some time ago looking for
work.

--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications

www.pcdatasheet.com

But you said earlier in the thread:

"$4000 ????? Cheap by any standard????
My fee would have been substantially less than that no matter what the
database was required to do!!!"

Now, given that the poster to whom you were replying gave no clues as to
what the database does, or how many hours his developer expended, or his
developer's rate, the implication is that regardless of how many hours the
job took, you WOULD do it for $4,000 or less.

It's not for me to comment on your commercial practices, I'm merely
pointing
out the inconsistency in your own statements.

"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
nk.net...
Conservatively assuming the developer billed at $50 per hour, he billed
eighty hours and his fee was $4000. Say he billed at $25 per hour, he
billed
160 hours and his fee was $4000. So in all likelihood the developer spent
between 80 and 160 hours on the project. I have worked on many of those
kinds of projects (and presumably Mr. Lake has too) and I have not charged
$4000.

So why don't you just mind your own business and not make unsubstantiated
statements.

Steve
PC Datasheet



That's one helluva lot of assumptions, none of which were stated in your
original sweeping statement. In other words, you are moving the goalposts.

You are posting in a public forum. That makes it my business, as well as
anyone else who happens to wander in. If you don't want your utterances
scrutinised, don't post 'em.

What unsubstantiated statement have I made? You made inconsistent
statements, I pointed the fact out.

If you are as aggressive with your clients as you are in this forum, I'm not
surprised that they don't express dissatisfaction - they probably don't
dare.

Tom wrote:
Im sitting here in front of my computer, Ive been here all day. Next to me is
about $200 worth of Access books, and a stack of Access information I printed
off the internet. ive just finished a community college class on Access, I
got an "A", (what a joke). Here I sit, and I still cant make one database.
This has got to be one of the most frustrating things Ive ever attempted. Im
not sure if I going to just give up tring to learn Access or not. After all
the time and effort I have put in I hate the thought of just quiting. I guess
all I can do is write this post. I feel like Im right on the verge of
understanding, but how long do I wait for that.

Just had to get it out...

Tom

The first thing I would do is decide what you want your database to do,
decide what data you need to do it, and then, design the tables (all without
even opening Access.)
For example: You want to be able to look up contacts phone #'s and addresses
and print mailing labels.
You will probably want last name, first name, middle initial, street address
(for FedEx, etc.), mailing address, city, state, zip, phone number.
In this example you will need only one table that will have all of the above
fields.
Now open Access and a new blank db. When asked, name it Contacts or
Contacts_be. The be stands for back end. I recommend that you create a
backend db for tables that will be shared by users. Each user can link to
the backend db tables.
Select New on the Tables tab of your db. I recommend Design View so you can
control all aspects of the design.
In the first Field Name blank type LastName (It is best that all names have
no blanks, that way if you ever convert to SQL you're set), press Tab and
type t (Text will appear). Continue with the rest and you have your table.
Save it with a logical name like Contacts.
For queries, forms, and reports use the wizards.

Thanks Bob


Tom

The first thing I would do is decide what you want your database to do,
decide what data you need to do it, and then, design the tables (all without
even opening Access.)
For example: You want to be able to look up contacts phone #'s and addresses
and print mailing labels.
You will probably want last name, first name, middle initial, street address
(for FedEx, etc.), mailing address, city, state, zip, phone number.
In this example you will need only one table that will have all of the above
fields.
Now open Access and a new blank db. When asked, name it Contacts or
Contacts_be. The be stands for back end. I recommend that you create a
backend db for tables that will be shared by users. Each user can link to
the backend db tables.
Select New on the Tables tab of your db. I recommend Design View so you can
control all aspects of the design.
In the first Field Name blank type LastName (It is best that all names have
no blanks, that way if you ever convert to SQL you're set), press Tab and
type t (Text will appear). Continue with the rest and you have your table.
Save it with a logical name like Contacts.
For queries, forms, and reports use the wizards.


--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...arted/200508/1

Access can be pretty hard when you are just a beginner. It becomes easier as
you go, but it sure is a weird application. It is definitely not one you can
learn by simply jumping in head first. You need some kind of outside
assistance.

--
Have a nice day!

~Paul
Express Scripts,
Charting the future of pharmacy


"Harold via AccessMonster.com" wrote:

Thanks Bob


Tom

The first thing I would do is decide what you want your database to do,
decide what data you need to do it, and then, design the tables (all without
even opening Access.)
For example: You want to be able to look up contacts phone #'s and addresses
and print mailing labels.
You will probably want last name, first name, middle initial, street address
(for FedEx, etc.), mailing address, city, state, zip, phone number.
In this example you will need only one table that will have all of the above
fields.
Now open Access and a new blank db. When asked, name it Contacts or
Contacts_be. The be stands for back end. I recommend that you create a
backend db for tables that will be shared by users. Each user can link to
the backend db tables.
Select New on the Tables tab of your db. I recommend Design View so you can
control all aspects of the design.
In the first Field Name blank type LastName (It is best that all names have
no blanks, that way if you ever convert to SQL you're set), press Tab and
type t (Text will appear). Continue with the rest and you have your table.
Save it with a logical name like Contacts.
For queries, forms, and reports use the wizards.


--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...arted/200508/1

--
Have a nice day!

~Paul
Express Scripts,
Charting the future of pharmacy


"Paul (ESI)" wrote:

Access can be pretty hard when you are just a beginner. It becomes easier as
you go, but it sure is a weird application. It is definitely not one you can
learn by simply jumping in head first. You need some kind of outside
assistance.

--
Have a nice day!

~Paul
Express Scripts,
Charting the future of pharmacy


"Harold via AccessMonster.com" wrote:

Thanks Bob


Tom

The first thing I would do is decide what you want your database to do,
decide what data you need to do it, and then, design the tables (all without
even opening Access.)
For example: You want to be able to look up contacts phone #'s and addresses
and print mailing labels.
You will probably want last name, first name, middle initial, street address
(for FedEx, etc.), mailing address, city, state, zip, phone number.
In this example you will need only one table that will have all of the above
fields.
Now open Access and a new blank db. When asked, name it Contacts or
Contacts_be. The be stands for back end. I recommend that you create a
backend db for tables that will be shared by users. Each user can link to
the backend db tables.
Select New on the Tables tab of your db. I recommend Design View so you can
control all aspects of the design.
In the first Field Name blank type LastName (It is best that all names have
no blanks, that way if you ever convert to SQL you're set), press Tab and
type t (Text will appear). Continue with the rest and you have your table.
Save it with a logical name like Contacts.
For queries, forms, and reports use the wizards.


--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...arted/200508/1

PC Datasheet wrote:
Mike,

$4000 ????? Cheap by any standard????
My fee would have been substantially less than that no matter what the
database was required to do!!!

Would it be fair to say that if a prospective client asked you to build a
database to do something that Access is patently unsuited for or impossible
to do that you would attempt to dissuade them and, ultimately, turn down that
piece of work if they were to persist?

As an example, say a punter wanted you to build a database that would contain
various statistics about racehorses, jockeys, conditions, etc etc so that he
could predict the winner of any given year's Kentucky Derby (including future
ones). Sure, you could build him a database containing that stuff with some
statistical matching and calculations and all, but would you be willing to
guarantee that it will do what he wants ie. predict the winner of the Derby?

If the prospective client were to insist that this was the key requirement of
database, I can't see any developer taking on that piece of work. Especially
if he was waving around a contract that included financial penalties every
time the database didn't predict the winner. I can see maybe a developer
taking it on as a special interest project that he or she does in her spare
time, just to see if it works, but I would think that anybody staking their
livelihood on it is heading for a fall.

That example applies irrespective of the tool involved. What if, for example,
the person wanted to build a music list or library that he could digitise his
entire collection of songs and build his own playlist? Sure, you could do
something like that in Access, but frankly I think the prospective client
would be better off getting an iPod and signing up to iTunes, and that a
developer who fails to explain those options to a prospective client is being
either naive or unethical.

I suppose those are the concerns that the sort of claim you make there raise.
I guess many people on these forums would appreciate it if you could modify
the size of your claims a bit - as has already been said, it seems like a bit
of hyperbole, and your refusal to acknowledge it as such makes you seem more
like a salesman than a developer


--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...arted/200508/1

Tom I have been trying to learn Access myself for the past 6 months. I
had previously created numbers of Lotus Approach databases for our
county office for the approximately 10 years. Well the State decided
that they would no longer use Lotus Products on our new computers so I
had to learn Access to convert all the Approach Programs. I have never
had any formal training just alot of intensive motivation. I found one
book that I have used alot. "Access 2003 for Dummies All in One Desk
Reference." It is the best book I have seen for newbies.
I also was very frustrated at learning Access but was extremely
persistent it in not letting it beat me. Along with the book, my
knowledge of setting up previous databases, and the help I have gotten
in the newsgroups I have been able to convert all the programs in Lotus
Approach.
Some things I learned.
1. Set up your tables and get relationships established first based on
the fields you need in those tables.
2. Set up a form for every table.

3. Set up your main form with a subform from from each table. (This
helps your linking process).

4. Then do your reports.

Once I got these things down things became more clear.

Also I mostly use macros as I do not know code, but as I have asked
questions and gotten more experience I have been able to use more code.

I almost gave up a couple of times as I got stumped on some tasks, but
the key is to be persistent and to keep asking questions until you get
it. It will come if you keep at it. The groups are great even though
you have some folks that want to get techical with you you have to keep
searching for the answer and you will usually find it.

Stick with it. I am feeling more comfortable after about 4 months and
about 20 databases.