Quirk in W2003 grammar

Copy/paste these sentences into Word 2003 with spelling check enabled
(US english)

These are software that are very easy to use these days

There are downloads that is awesome

There is download that are awesome


The "are" in the first sentence is getting flagged for grammar when it
looks right to me.
The other two sentences seem to be wrong grammar yet W2003 does not
flag them.

I have always noticed that the words "software" and "download" have
trouble with Word 2003 grammar when used with different combinations
with the words "is" or "are" (singular or plural trouble)

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www.tinyurl.com/cheapwriting

I agree that the second and third are clearly wrong. I wouldn't use the
first, either, since I would avoid using "software" (clearly singular) with
a plural meaning.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

"L. Mohan Arun" wrote in message
...
Copy/paste these sentences into Word 2003 with spelling check enabled
(US english)

These are software that are very easy to use these days

There are downloads that is awesome

There is download that are awesome


The "are" in the first sentence is getting flagged for grammar when it
looks right to me.
The other two sentences seem to be wrong grammar yet W2003 does not
flag them.

I have always noticed that the words "software" and "download" have
trouble with Word 2003 grammar when used with different combinations
with the words "is" or "are" (singular or plural trouble)

-------------------------------------------------------
www.tinyurl.com/cheapwriting

"Software" is not singular. It can be a plural term. May be this
discussion needs to be cross-posted to alt.usage.english but the
problem is with Word 2003 grammar.

In context:
You need to use special software to create your personal website.
These are software that are very easy to use these days.

This is correct but Word found fault with "are" so I changed it to
"These are pieces of software that are very easy to use these days."
and Word accepted the "are". This goes to show that software is not a
"singular" term.

To prove that Word 2003 does not consider software as a "singular" try
both these sentences:
Not all html editor software are created equal
Not all html editor software is created equal

Both do not get flagged for any error.

Here is another reference which clearly needs a plural reference for
"software"
"Other web site maker software are often bloated"

Here too, Word finds fault with the "are".

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www.tinyurl.com/cheapwriting

On Feb 6, 12:53*am, "L. Mohan Arun" wrote:
"Software" is not singular. It can be a plural term. May be this
discussion needs to be cross-posted to alt.usage.english but the
problem is with Word 2003 grammar.

You are simply mistaken. The word "software" is singular, always. It
is what in English grammar is called a "mass noun," and even if it
refers to many different entities, it is always construed as singular.

In context:
You need to use special software to create your personal website.
These are software that are very easy to use these days.

This is incorrect. You can say "There is software that is very easy to
use," or you can say "There are programs that are very easy to use."
You cannot intermingle the two sentences.

This is correct but Word found fault with "are" so I changed it to
"These are pieces of software that are very easy to use these days."
and Word accepted the "are". This goes to show that software is not a
"singular" term.

No, it shows that "pieces" is a plural "count noun," which is
construed as plural.

To prove that Word 2003 does not consider software as a "singular" try
both these sentences:
Not all html editor software are created equal
Not all html editor software is created equal

Both do not get flagged for any error.

The first is incorrect. The second is correct.

Here is another reference which clearly needs a plural reference for
"software"
"Other web site maker software are often bloated"

That doesn't make any sense at all -- I can't even tell what you are
trying to say.

Here too, Word finds fault with the "are".

That is the least of the problems.

----------------------------------------www.tinyurl.com/cheapwriting

A further lesson of your experiences is that there is no fully
successful grammar-checking program. Language is just too complicated
for computers.

To prove that Word 2003 does not consider software as a "singular" try
both these sentences:
Not all html editor software are created equal
Not all html editor software is created equal
Both do not get flagged for any error.

The first is incorrect. The second is correct.

So how do you explain that Word does not flag the first sentence as
incorrect grammar? This is more about Word's grammar recognition than
about English usage..

Here is another reference which clearly needs a plural reference for
"software"
"Other web site maker software are often bloated"

That doesn't make any sense at all -- I can't even tell what you are trying to say.

It makes sense as is. A reference to all the other web site maker
software out there - clearly that is plural - a "collective noun" -
Word finds fault with the 'are" and wants to change it to "Other web
site maker software is often bloated". I want to say that all the
other software are bloated except this one.

Here too, Word finds fault with the "are".
That is the least of the problems.

It is a problem nonetheless... I dont agree that it is "least of the
problems".

The bottom line is that if you want to treat "software" as plural, then you
need to use another word, such as "programs" or "applications" or
"solutions."

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

"L. Mohan Arun" wrote in message
...
To prove that Word 2003 does not consider software as a "singular" try
both these sentences:
Not all html editor software are created equal
Not all html editor software is created equal
Both do not get flagged for any error.

The first is incorrect. The second is correct.

So how do you explain that Word does not flag the first sentence as
incorrect grammar? This is more about Word's grammar recognition than
about English usage..

Here is another reference which clearly needs a plural reference for
"software"
"Other web site maker software are often bloated"

That doesn't make any sense at all -- I can't even tell what you are
trying to say.

It makes sense as is. A reference to all the other web site maker
software out there - clearly that is plural - a "collective noun" -
Word finds fault with the 'are" and wants to change it to "Other web
site maker software is often bloated". I want to say that all the
other software are bloated except this one.

Here too, Word finds fault with the "are".
That is the least of the problems.

It is a problem nonetheless... I dont agree that it is "least of the
problems".

On Feb 7, 2:26*am, "L. Mohan Arun" wrote:
To prove that Word 2003 does not consider software as a "singular" try
both these sentences:
Not all html editor software are created equal
Not all html editor software is created equal
Both do not get flagged for any error.
The first is incorrect. The second is correct.

So how do you explain that Word does not flag the first sentence as
incorrect grammar? This is more about Word's grammar recognition than
about English usage..

So now you have learned that computer grammar checkers are not
infallible! Machine Translation doesn't work particularly well,
either, because human language is far more complicated than anything
any computer yet programmed is able to handle.

Here is another reference which clearly needs a plural reference for
"software"
"Other web site maker software are often bloated"
That doesn't make any sense at all -- I can't even tell what you are trying to say.

It makes sense as is. A reference to all the other web site maker
software out there - clearly that is plural - a "collective noun" -

I'm sorry, but "web site maker software" isn't English. You might
intend "web sites of makers of software," or "software for making web
sites," and it isn't clear whether you are saying that the web sites
are bloated or the software is bloated.

Word finds fault with the 'are" and wants to change it to "Other web
site maker software is often bloated". I want to say that all the
other software are bloated except this one.

A string of four nouns with nothing between them is very unusual in
English, and the grammar-checking program probably simply saw that the
noun next before the verb is singular, and changed the verb to
singular.

Here too, Word finds fault with the "are".
That is the least of the problems.

It is a problem nonetheless... I dont agree that it is "least of the
problems".

It is not a problem, because the word "software" is singular, even if
it refers to more than one piece of software / more than one program.