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  #21  
Old October 11th, 2005, 04:05 AM
Duane Hookom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On a scale of 0 to 10 I believe your understanding or acceptance of your
behavior is a 0.

Contact me at my email address below if you would like assistance with
explaining this further. My fees are very reasonable.

--
Duane Hookom
DuaneHookom AT nospam Hotmail dot nospam com
MS Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
Duane,

So answer this ----
On a scale of 0 to 10, rate your feeling for what you would like to see as
to what percentage of posters with a legitimate problem gets his problem
solved from the newsgroups where 0 is None and 10 is All.

Steve


"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
1. You are an Access expert and could answer any question posted. Why
don't
you answer the posts that receive no response?
A: There are questions that:
- I can't answer (lack of knowledge on my part)
- I feel someone can answer better than I can
for instance skipping labels in a report or PDF related
or ADO code or use of lookup fields
- I don't want to answer
- I don't have time to answer since there are lots of threads

2. Why don't you respond to the posts that you know the poster is not
going
to solve his problem from the responses he received?
A:
- I sometimes go off-line for free or if asked, suggest they make a
donation to a charity such as Special Olympics
- I am never sure how to determine if the NG is going to satisfy a need
- I have suggested an OP find a consultant

3. What if any problems do you see being caused by my offering fee-based
help to limited posters in the newsgroups?
A:
- I objected to this post since you were the first to reply
and offered to help for a fee
- think for a minute (I assume you can think) what these NGs would
become if even 10 or 12 other persons posted similar replies of
offers to help for a fee. Maybe every MVP and other significant
replier should feel free to offer to help for a fee.

I would hate for these NGs to become a marketing tool for consultants.
Why is Steve/PC Datasheet special that he should be able to use these NGs
to fish for work when others don't?

Again, I think you either just don't "get it" or refuse to "accept it".
--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--

"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
ink.net...
Answer one question:
Do you not think that people come to these News Groups looking for free
advice/support?

People come to the newsgroups looking for a solution to an Access
related problem. Some times they get no response; therefore no solution.
Sometimes they get a long winded response that provides no solution.
Some times they get a response that is beyond their ability and
therefore are unable to implement the solution. Some times the response
is so poorly written that it is incomprehensible. Some times the
response is written so illogically that it is too hard for the average
user to understand. Some times the solution being sought is beyond what
can reasonably be expected to be given for free. Some times they get a
response offering fee-based help. The poster has the option to contact
me if he so chooses. Many do because the need for the solution justifies
paying for a solution! My fees are very reasonable and these posters are
happy to receive my fee-based help. So where else do you think these
posters could go to receive a quick solution for a reasonable fee?

I would not have criticized you if this thread was about 10 replies
long and it was clear that the OP needed to find a contractor.
So, you are agreeing that it is OK to offer fee-based services under
certain conditions. Well that is just what I am doing! To paraphrase
your words a little, when I think that it is clear that the poster is
not going to be able to solve his problem from the newsgroup, then I
consider offering him the option of fee-based help. And not every
response I make is one offering fee-based help. On at least a ten to one
ratio, I provide free advice/support over offering fee-based help. In a
vast majority of me free responses, I also take the time to provide a
very good quality response. I try to provide all the details the poster
needs. Since some time ago when an MVP suggested that I clearly say that
my offer for help is fee-based, I have tried to follow that suggestion.

Answer three questions ---
1. You are an Access expert and could answer any question posted. Why
don't you answer the posts that receive no response?

2. Why don't you respond to the posts that you know the poster is not
going to solve his problem from the responses he received?

3. What if any problems do you see being caused by my offering
fee-based help to limited posters in the newsgroups?

Steve
PC Datasheet


"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
You just don't get it. I have only criticized you when your entire post
is an offer to provide contract/paid services. In this case, you did
this in a post not even 90 minutes old.

I have never objected to your (or anyone else's) signature line (at
least not that I recall). I have even defended you in threads where
your only suggestion of selling services was your signature.

I don't recall Ken's reply but I expect you are taking it out of
context. I could be wrong but I doubt it. Ken certainly did not reply
as you did fishing for work on a brand new thread.

I would not have criticized you if this thread was about 10 replies
long and it was clear that the OP needed to find a contractor.

I rarely if ever see replies like some of yours that jump on a brand
new thread with an offer to provide consulting services. It may happen
more than I have noticed but you must admit that you blatantly
advertise or ask for business more than any other poster by a large
margin. I don't read all the Access related NGs but if score was kept
in the ones I frequent, you wouldn't have any competition.

Answer one question:
Do you not think that people come to these News Groups looking for
free advice/support?

--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Duane,

I will preface what I have to say with, I have been reading the
newsgroups for many years and all that time you have stood out as a
prominent figure. I can say as a fact that everything that you have
always had to say was said in a very professional way. From that I
have developed great respect for you and continue to feel that
respect. What I have to say is meant to be in the spirit of that
respect and is no way intended to put you down.

None of what you quoted here comes from the Rulse Of Conduct and
therefore does not apply. The Rules Of Conduct are found at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/ga...RulesofConduct
and the pertinent part states:
"We ask that you refrain from posting advertisements or solicitations
that do not pertain directly to the intended use and purpose of the
newsgroup or chat."

Nonetheless, here is my response ---

As far as advertising, please explain in concrete terms how "Contact
me at my email address below if you would like outside help with this.
My fees are very reasonable" is advertising. My sig is advertising but
again it pertains to the purpose of the newsgroups to provide Access
users a resource for help with Access related problems. Duane Hookom,
MS Access is the same type of advertising. So is the following:
o "MVPDoug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP"
o "See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs."
o "John Viescas, author
"Building Microsoft Access Applications" (Coming Soon!)
"Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out"
"Running Microsoft Access 2000"
"SQL Queries for Mere Mortals"
o David Lloyd
MCSD .NET
http://LemingtonConsulting.com
The above are a very small example of what you see daily on the
newsgroups.

In terms of Contact me if you would like help, I am not the only one
to post this type of post. Every once in a while you will see offers
from others besides myself. Consider the following:
genenky -
You can contact me via www.cadellsoftware.org and we can discuss what
you're seeking to do.-

Ken Snell
MS ACCESS MVP

No one posts derogatory responses to these others. Is it because Ken
is an MVP?

In terms of advertising, consider the following in the sig line of an
infrequent responder:
"A Christian Response
http://www.pastornet.net.au/response"

Check out the web address. It has absolutely nothing to do with
Access. You see other adverts like this and adverts that are directly
in the body of the post. None of the above are ever taken to task for
advertising that obviously does not pertain to providing Access users
a resource for help with Access problems.

In conclusion, I want to ask that you drop out of the crowd of the
likes of Arno R, Keith Wilby, Randy Harris and others and defend me
from their malicious attacks. If you are not willing to do this then I
ask that you keep silent rather than trying to support them.

Thanks, Duane,

Steve



"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
I did a quick search of google:
"NewsGroup" etiquette advertise

First Hit
=========================
http://www.netscape.co.uk/help/faqs/...oupmanners.htm
Don't Spam
Spamming is e-mailing or posting unsolicited advertising. Never post
advertising on a Newsgroup unless it is specifically created to
accept adverts.

Second Hit
=========================
http://groups.google.com/googlegroup...ing_style.html
Please do not use Usenet as an advertising medium.
Advertisements on Usenet are rarely appreciated. In general, the
louder or more inappropriate the ad is, the more antagonism it stirs
up. Just think how annoying it is to you to have your evening meal
interrupted by a telemarketer. The feeling is the same when someone
posts inappropriate commercial messages in a newsgroup. If in doubt,
don't do it.

Third Hit
==========================
http://www.gotfusion.com/tutsTD/groupetiquette.cfm
DO NOT Advertise: It doesn't work, it gets people really really
mad, it gets me really really mad, and no matter what you say it will
not be taken well. Everyone HATES SPAM. This is one of the things
that will guarantee that I bring out my "big hammer" and remove your
thread. Do not answer posts of this nature as it just adds to the
number of posts I have to remove. If you continue to advertise after
being warned you may find yourself blacklisted from posting anything
on these newsgroups.

Fourth Hit
==========================
http://www.mommyshelperonline.com/email-etiquette.html
6.) Use 4-6 lines for your signature line, this is an opportunity to
highlight your business or company information, but don't be
ostentatious..


--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
Doug,

I have always respected your approach and continue to feel that way.
My intent here is not meant to put you down in any way. I just am
asking you on a professional level where specifically does it say
that offers of help on an Access related problem for a fee are
prohibited?

Steve


"Douglas J. Steele" wrote in
message ...
These newsgroups are not intended for you to solicit commercial
business.

You know that: you've been told MANY times by MANY different
people, yet you still persist.

Are you really that egocentric that you figure you can ignore
everyone?

--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no e-mails, please!)



"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
ink.net...
Why don't you explain it to me in concrete terms, Doug.


"Douglas J. Steele" wrote in
message ...
You just don't get it, do you Steve?

--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no e-mails, please!)



"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside
help with this. My fees are very reasonable.

--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications

www.pcdatasheet.com























  #22  
Old October 11th, 2005, 04:12 AM
PC Datasheet
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Duane,

The question put to you is a legitimate question and deserves a legitimate
answer not an Arno R response.

Steve


"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
On a scale of 0 to 10 I believe your understanding or acceptance of your
behavior is a 0.

Contact me at my email address below if you would like assistance with
explaining this further. My fees are very reasonable.

--
Duane Hookom
DuaneHookom AT nospam Hotmail dot nospam com
MS Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
Duane,

So answer this ----
On a scale of 0 to 10, rate your feeling for what you would like to see
as to what percentage of posters with a legitimate problem gets his
problem solved from the newsgroups where 0 is None and 10 is All.

Steve


"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
1. You are an Access expert and could answer any question posted. Why
don't
you answer the posts that receive no response?
A: There are questions that:
- I can't answer (lack of knowledge on my part)
- I feel someone can answer better than I can
for instance skipping labels in a report or PDF related
or ADO code or use of lookup fields
- I don't want to answer
- I don't have time to answer since there are lots of threads

2. Why don't you respond to the posts that you know the poster is not
going
to solve his problem from the responses he received?
A:
- I sometimes go off-line for free or if asked, suggest they make a
donation to a charity such as Special Olympics
- I am never sure how to determine if the NG is going to satisfy a
need
- I have suggested an OP find a consultant

3. What if any problems do you see being caused by my offering
fee-based
help to limited posters in the newsgroups?
A:
- I objected to this post since you were the first to reply
and offered to help for a fee
- think for a minute (I assume you can think) what these NGs would
become if even 10 or 12 other persons posted similar replies of
offers to help for a fee. Maybe every MVP and other significant
replier should feel free to offer to help for a fee.

I would hate for these NGs to become a marketing tool for consultants.
Why is Steve/PC Datasheet special that he should be able to use these
NGs to fish for work when others don't?

Again, I think you either just don't "get it" or refuse to "accept it".
--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--

"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
ink.net...
Answer one question:
Do you not think that people come to these News Groups looking for
free
advice/support?

People come to the newsgroups looking for a solution to an Access
related problem. Some times they get no response; therefore no
solution. Sometimes they get a long winded response that provides no
solution. Some times they get a response that is beyond their ability
and therefore are unable to implement the solution. Some times the
response is so poorly written that it is incomprehensible. Some times
the response is written so illogically that it is too hard for the
average user to understand. Some times the solution being sought is
beyond what can reasonably be expected to be given for free. Some times
they get a response offering fee-based help. The poster has the option
to contact me if he so chooses. Many do because the need for the
solution justifies paying for a solution! My fees are very reasonable
and these posters are happy to receive my fee-based help. So where else
do you think these posters could go to receive a quick solution for a
reasonable fee?

I would not have criticized you if this thread was about 10 replies
long and it was clear that the OP needed to find a contractor.
So, you are agreeing that it is OK to offer fee-based services under
certain conditions. Well that is just what I am doing! To paraphrase
your words a little, when I think that it is clear that the poster is
not going to be able to solve his problem from the newsgroup, then I
consider offering him the option of fee-based help. And not every
response I make is one offering fee-based help. On at least a ten to
one ratio, I provide free advice/support over offering fee-based help.
In a vast majority of me free responses, I also take the time to
provide a very good quality response. I try to provide all the details
the poster needs. Since some time ago when an MVP suggested that I
clearly say that my offer for help is fee-based, I have tried to follow
that suggestion.

Answer three questions ---
1. You are an Access expert and could answer any question posted. Why
don't you answer the posts that receive no response?

2. Why don't you respond to the posts that you know the poster is not
going to solve his problem from the responses he received?

3. What if any problems do you see being caused by my offering
fee-based help to limited posters in the newsgroups?

Steve
PC Datasheet


"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
You just don't get it. I have only criticized you when your entire
post is an offer to provide contract/paid services. In this case, you
did this in a post not even 90 minutes old.

I have never objected to your (or anyone else's) signature line (at
least not that I recall). I have even defended you in threads where
your only suggestion of selling services was your signature.

I don't recall Ken's reply but I expect you are taking it out of
context. I could be wrong but I doubt it. Ken certainly did not reply
as you did fishing for work on a brand new thread.

I would not have criticized you if this thread was about 10 replies
long and it was clear that the OP needed to find a contractor.

I rarely if ever see replies like some of yours that jump on a brand
new thread with an offer to provide consulting services. It may happen
more than I have noticed but you must admit that you blatantly
advertise or ask for business more than any other poster by a large
margin. I don't read all the Access related NGs but if score was kept
in the ones I frequent, you wouldn't have any competition.

Answer one question:
Do you not think that people come to these News Groups looking for
free advice/support?

--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Duane,

I will preface what I have to say with, I have been reading the
newsgroups for many years and all that time you have stood out as a
prominent figure. I can say as a fact that everything that you have
always had to say was said in a very professional way. From that I
have developed great respect for you and continue to feel that
respect. What I have to say is meant to be in the spirit of that
respect and is no way intended to put you down.

None of what you quoted here comes from the Rulse Of Conduct and
therefore does not apply. The Rules Of Conduct are found at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/ga...RulesofConduct
and the pertinent part states:
"We ask that you refrain from posting advertisements or solicitations
that do not pertain directly to the intended use and purpose of the
newsgroup or chat."

Nonetheless, here is my response ---

As far as advertising, please explain in concrete terms how "Contact
me at my email address below if you would like outside help with
this. My fees are very reasonable" is advertising. My sig is
advertising but again it pertains to the purpose of the newsgroups to
provide Access users a resource for help with Access related
problems. Duane Hookom, MS Access is the same type of advertising. So
is the following:
o "MVPDoug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP"
o "See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs."
o "John Viescas, author
"Building Microsoft Access Applications" (Coming Soon!)
"Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out"
"Running Microsoft Access 2000"
"SQL Queries for Mere Mortals"
o David Lloyd
MCSD .NET
http://LemingtonConsulting.com
The above are a very small example of what you see daily on the
newsgroups.

In terms of Contact me if you would like help, I am not the only one
to post this type of post. Every once in a while you will see offers
from others besides myself. Consider the following:
genenky -
You can contact me via www.cadellsoftware.org and we can discuss what
you're seeking to do.-

Ken Snell
MS ACCESS MVP

No one posts derogatory responses to these others. Is it because Ken
is an MVP?

In terms of advertising, consider the following in the sig line of an
infrequent responder:
"A Christian Response
http://www.pastornet.net.au/response"

Check out the web address. It has absolutely nothing to do with
Access. You see other adverts like this and adverts that are directly
in the body of the post. None of the above are ever taken to task for
advertising that obviously does not pertain to providing Access users
a resource for help with Access problems.

In conclusion, I want to ask that you drop out of the crowd of the
likes of Arno R, Keith Wilby, Randy Harris and others and defend me
from their malicious attacks. If you are not willing to do this then
I ask that you keep silent rather than trying to support them.

Thanks, Duane,

Steve



"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
I did a quick search of google:
"NewsGroup" etiquette advertise

First Hit
=========================
http://www.netscape.co.uk/help/faqs/...oupmanners.htm
Don't Spam
Spamming is e-mailing or posting unsolicited advertising. Never post
advertising on a Newsgroup unless it is specifically created to
accept adverts.

Second Hit
=========================
http://groups.google.com/googlegroup...ing_style.html
Please do not use Usenet as an advertising medium.
Advertisements on Usenet are rarely appreciated. In general, the
louder or more inappropriate the ad is, the more antagonism it stirs
up. Just think how annoying it is to you to have your evening meal
interrupted by a telemarketer. The feeling is the same when someone
posts inappropriate commercial messages in a newsgroup. If in doubt,
don't do it.

Third Hit
==========================
http://www.gotfusion.com/tutsTD/groupetiquette.cfm
DO NOT Advertise: It doesn't work, it gets people really really
mad, it gets me really really mad, and no matter what you say it
will not be taken well. Everyone HATES SPAM. This is one of the
things that will guarantee that I bring out my "big hammer" and
remove your thread. Do not answer posts of this nature as it just
adds to the number of posts I have to remove. If you continue to
advertise after being warned you may find yourself blacklisted from
posting anything on these newsgroups.

Fourth Hit
==========================
http://www.mommyshelperonline.com/email-etiquette.html
6.) Use 4-6 lines for your signature line, this is an opportunity to
highlight your business or company information, but don't be
ostentatious..


--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
Doug,

I have always respected your approach and continue to feel that
way. My intent here is not meant to put you down in any way. I just
am asking you on a professional level where specifically does it
say that offers of help on an Access related problem for a fee are
prohibited?

Steve


"Douglas J. Steele" wrote in
message ...
These newsgroups are not intended for you to solicit commercial
business.

You know that: you've been told MANY times by MANY different
people, yet you still persist.

Are you really that egocentric that you figure you can ignore
everyone?

--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no e-mails, please!)



"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
ink.net...
Why don't you explain it to me in concrete terms, Doug.


"Douglas J. Steele" wrote in
message ...
You just don't get it, do you Steve?

--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no e-mails, please!)



"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside
help with this. My fees are very reasonable.

--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications

www.pcdatasheet.com

























  #23  
Old October 11th, 2005, 04:42 AM
Duane Hookom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Why should I answer your questions when you have ignored mine?

My question that you ignored is "Why is Steve/PC Datasheet special that he
should be able to use these NGs to fish for work when others don't?"

--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
ink.net...
Duane,

The question put to you is a legitimate question and deserves a legitimate
answer not an Arno R response.

Steve


"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
On a scale of 0 to 10 I believe your understanding or acceptance of your
behavior is a 0.

Contact me at my email address below if you would like assistance with
explaining this further. My fees are very reasonable.

--
Duane Hookom
DuaneHookom AT nospam Hotmail dot nospam com
MS Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
Duane,

So answer this ----
On a scale of 0 to 10, rate your feeling for what you would like to see
as to what percentage of posters with a legitimate problem gets his
problem solved from the newsgroups where 0 is None and 10 is All.

Steve


"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
1. You are an Access expert and could answer any question posted. Why
don't
you answer the posts that receive no response?
A: There are questions that:
- I can't answer (lack of knowledge on my part)
- I feel someone can answer better than I can
for instance skipping labels in a report or PDF related
or ADO code or use of lookup fields
- I don't want to answer
- I don't have time to answer since there are lots of threads

2. Why don't you respond to the posts that you know the poster is not
going
to solve his problem from the responses he received?
A:
- I sometimes go off-line for free or if asked, suggest they make a
donation to a charity such as Special Olympics
- I am never sure how to determine if the NG is going to satisfy a
need
- I have suggested an OP find a consultant

3. What if any problems do you see being caused by my offering
fee-based
help to limited posters in the newsgroups?
A:
- I objected to this post since you were the first to reply
and offered to help for a fee
- think for a minute (I assume you can think) what these NGs would
become if even 10 or 12 other persons posted similar replies of
offers to help for a fee. Maybe every MVP and other significant
replier should feel free to offer to help for a fee.

I would hate for these NGs to become a marketing tool for consultants.
Why is Steve/PC Datasheet special that he should be able to use these
NGs to fish for work when others don't?

Again, I think you either just don't "get it" or refuse to "accept it".
--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--

"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
ink.net...
Answer one question:
Do you not think that people come to these News Groups looking for
free
advice/support?

People come to the newsgroups looking for a solution to an Access
related problem. Some times they get no response; therefore no
solution. Sometimes they get a long winded response that provides no
solution. Some times they get a response that is beyond their ability
and therefore are unable to implement the solution. Some times the
response is so poorly written that it is incomprehensible. Some times
the response is written so illogically that it is too hard for the
average user to understand. Some times the solution being sought is
beyond what can reasonably be expected to be given for free. Some
times they get a response offering fee-based help. The poster has the
option to contact me if he so chooses. Many do because the need for
the solution justifies paying for a solution! My fees are very
reasonable and these posters are happy to receive my fee-based help.
So where else do you think these posters could go to receive a quick
solution for a reasonable fee?

I would not have criticized you if this thread was about 10
replies long and it was clear that the OP needed to find a
contractor.
So, you are agreeing that it is OK to offer fee-based services under
certain conditions. Well that is just what I am doing! To paraphrase
your words a little, when I think that it is clear that the poster is
not going to be able to solve his problem from the newsgroup, then I
consider offering him the option of fee-based help. And not every
response I make is one offering fee-based help. On at least a ten to
one ratio, I provide free advice/support over offering fee-based help.
In a vast majority of me free responses, I also take the time to
provide a very good quality response. I try to provide all the details
the poster needs. Since some time ago when an MVP suggested that I
clearly say that my offer for help is fee-based, I have tried to
follow that suggestion.

Answer three questions ---
1. You are an Access expert and could answer any question posted. Why
don't you answer the posts that receive no response?

2. Why don't you respond to the posts that you know the poster is not
going to solve his problem from the responses he received?

3. What if any problems do you see being caused by my offering
fee-based help to limited posters in the newsgroups?

Steve
PC Datasheet


"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
You just don't get it. I have only criticized you when your entire
post is an offer to provide contract/paid services. In this case, you
did this in a post not even 90 minutes old.

I have never objected to your (or anyone else's) signature line (at
least not that I recall). I have even defended you in threads where
your only suggestion of selling services was your signature.

I don't recall Ken's reply but I expect you are taking it out of
context. I could be wrong but I doubt it. Ken certainly did not reply
as you did fishing for work on a brand new thread.

I would not have criticized you if this thread was about 10 replies
long and it was clear that the OP needed to find a contractor.

I rarely if ever see replies like some of yours that jump on a brand
new thread with an offer to provide consulting services. It may
happen more than I have noticed but you must admit that you blatantly
advertise or ask for business more than any other poster by a large
margin. I don't read all the Access related NGs but if score was kept
in the ones I frequent, you wouldn't have any competition.

Answer one question:
Do you not think that people come to these News Groups looking for
free advice/support?

--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Duane,

I will preface what I have to say with, I have been reading the
newsgroups for many years and all that time you have stood out as a
prominent figure. I can say as a fact that everything that you have
always had to say was said in a very professional way. From that I
have developed great respect for you and continue to feel that
respect. What I have to say is meant to be in the spirit of that
respect and is no way intended to put you down.

None of what you quoted here comes from the Rulse Of Conduct and
therefore does not apply. The Rules Of Conduct are found at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/ga...RulesofConduct
and the pertinent part states:
"We ask that you refrain from posting advertisements or
solicitations that do not pertain directly to the intended use and
purpose of the newsgroup or chat."

Nonetheless, here is my response ---

As far as advertising, please explain in concrete terms how "Contact
me at my email address below if you would like outside help with
this. My fees are very reasonable" is advertising. My sig is
advertising but again it pertains to the purpose of the newsgroups
to provide Access users a resource for help with Access related
problems. Duane Hookom, MS Access is the same type of advertising.
So is the following:
o "MVPDoug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP"
o "See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs."
o "John Viescas, author
"Building Microsoft Access Applications" (Coming Soon!)
"Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out"
"Running Microsoft Access 2000"
"SQL Queries for Mere Mortals"
o David Lloyd
MCSD .NET
http://LemingtonConsulting.com
The above are a very small example of what you see daily on the
newsgroups.

In terms of Contact me if you would like help, I am not the only one
to post this type of post. Every once in a while you will see offers
from others besides myself. Consider the following:
genenky -
You can contact me via www.cadellsoftware.org and we can discuss
what you're seeking to do.-

Ken Snell
MS ACCESS MVP

No one posts derogatory responses to these others. Is it because Ken
is an MVP?

In terms of advertising, consider the following in the sig line of
an infrequent responder:
"A Christian Response
http://www.pastornet.net.au/response"

Check out the web address. It has absolutely nothing to do with
Access. You see other adverts like this and adverts that are
directly in the body of the post. None of the above are ever taken
to task for advertising that obviously does not pertain to providing
Access users a resource for help with Access problems.

In conclusion, I want to ask that you drop out of the crowd of the
likes of Arno R, Keith Wilby, Randy Harris and others and defend me
from their malicious attacks. If you are not willing to do this then
I ask that you keep silent rather than trying to support them.

Thanks, Duane,

Steve



"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
I did a quick search of google:
"NewsGroup" etiquette advertise

First Hit
=========================
http://www.netscape.co.uk/help/faqs/...oupmanners.htm
Don't Spam
Spamming is e-mailing or posting unsolicited advertising. Never
post advertising on a Newsgroup unless it is specifically created
to accept adverts.

Second Hit
=========================
http://groups.google.com/googlegroup...ing_style.html
Please do not use Usenet as an advertising medium.
Advertisements on Usenet are rarely appreciated. In general, the
louder or more inappropriate the ad is, the more antagonism it
stirs up. Just think how annoying it is to you to have your evening
meal interrupted by a telemarketer. The feeling is the same when
someone posts inappropriate commercial messages in a newsgroup. If
in doubt, don't do it.

Third Hit
==========================
http://www.gotfusion.com/tutsTD/groupetiquette.cfm
DO NOT Advertise: It doesn't work, it gets people really really
mad, it gets me really really mad, and no matter what you say it
will not be taken well. Everyone HATES SPAM. This is one of the
things that will guarantee that I bring out my "big hammer" and
remove your thread. Do not answer posts of this nature as it just
adds to the number of posts I have to remove. If you continue to
advertise after being warned you may find yourself blacklisted from
posting anything on these newsgroups.

Fourth Hit
==========================
http://www.mommyshelperonline.com/email-etiquette.html
6.) Use 4-6 lines for your signature line, this is an opportunity
to highlight your business or company information, but don't be
ostentatious..


--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
Doug,

I have always respected your approach and continue to feel that
way. My intent here is not meant to put you down in any way. I
just am asking you on a professional level where specifically does
it say that offers of help on an Access related problem for a fee
are prohibited?

Steve


"Douglas J. Steele" wrote in
message ...
These newsgroups are not intended for you to solicit commercial
business.

You know that: you've been told MANY times by MANY different
people, yet you still persist.

Are you really that egocentric that you figure you can ignore
everyone?

--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no e-mails, please!)



"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
ink.net...
Why don't you explain it to me in concrete terms, Doug.


"Douglas J. Steele" wrote in
message ...
You just don't get it, do you Steve?

--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no e-mails, please!)



"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside
help with this. My fees are very reasonable.

--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word
Applications

www.pcdatasheet.com



























  #24  
Old October 11th, 2005, 09:07 AM
WSF
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

snip
"People come to the newsgroups looking for a solution to an Access
related problem. Sometimes they get no response; therefore no solution."

Fat chance Steve when you respond with your plug so quickly. Or do you
really believe those who volunteer their expertise here are, like you,
waiting to pounce on a post?

I'll say one thing Steve. You provide plenty of entertainment. Given the
repetitious diatribes you put out you are obviously not too busy. Get a
life mate. You have no chance of scoring any points here.

Your begging for work here rings like an encyclopaedia door-to-door
salesman.

Oh, and as you will have gathered from my previous post, why do you not
sign your questions to the newsgroups the same way you sign your
questions? Questions, I figure, you already know the answers to?



PC Datasheet wrote:
Answer one question:
Do you not think that people come to these News Groups looking for free
advice/support?

People come to the newsgroups looking for a solution to an Access related
problem. Some times they get no response; therefore no solution. Sometimes
they get a long winded response that provides no solution. Some times they
get a response that is beyond their ability and therefore are unable to
implement the solution. Some times the response is so poorly written that it
is incomprehensible. Some times the response is written so illogically that
it is too hard for the average user to understand. Some times the solution
being sought is beyond what can reasonably be expected to be given for free.
Some times they get a response offering fee-based help. The poster has the
option to contact me if he so chooses. Many do because the need for the
solution justifies paying for a solution! My fees are very reasonable and
these posters are happy to receive my fee-based help. So where else do you
think these posters could go to receive a quick solution for a reasonable
fee?

I would not have criticized you if this thread was about 10 replies long
and it was clear that the OP needed to find a contractor.
So, you are agreeing that it is OK to offer fee-based services under certain
conditions. Well that is just what I am doing! To paraphrase your words a
little, when I think that it is clear that the poster is not going to be
able to solve his problem from the newsgroup, then I consider offering him
the option of fee-based help. And not every response I make is one offering
fee-based help. On at least a ten to one ratio, I provide free
advice/support over offering fee-based help. In a vast majority of me free
responses, I also take the time to provide a very good quality response. I
try to provide all the details the poster needs. Since some time ago when an
MVP suggested that I clearly say that my offer for help is fee-based, I have
tried to follow that suggestion.

Answer three questions ---
1. You are an Access expert and could answer any question posted. Why don't
you answer the posts that receive no response?

2. Why don't you respond to the posts that you know the poster is not going
to solve his problem from the responses he received?

3. What if any problems do you see being caused by my offering fee-based
help to limited posters in the newsgroups?

Steve
PC Datasheet


"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...

You just don't get it. I have only criticized you when your entire post is
an offer to provide contract/paid services. In this case, you did this in
a post not even 90 minutes old.

I have never objected to your (or anyone else's) signature line (at least
not that I recall). I have even defended you in threads where your only
suggestion of selling services was your signature.

I don't recall Ken's reply but I expect you are taking it out of context.
I could be wrong but I doubt it. Ken certainly did not reply as you did
fishing for work on a brand new thread.

I would not have criticized you if this thread was about 10 replies long
and it was clear that the OP needed to find a contractor.

I rarely if ever see replies like some of yours that jump on a brand new
thread with an offer to provide consulting services. It may happen more
than I have noticed but you must admit that you blatantly advertise or ask
for business more than any other poster by a large margin. I don't read
all the Access related NGs but if score was kept in the ones I frequent,
you wouldn't have any competition.

Answer one question:
Do you not think that people come to these News Groups looking for free
advice/support?

--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
rthlink.net...

Duane,

I will preface what I have to say with, I have been reading the
newsgroups for many years and all that time you have stood out as a
prominent figure. I can say as a fact that everything that you have
always had to say was said in a very professional way. From that I have
developed great respect for you and continue to feel that respect. What I
have to say is meant to be in the spirit of that respect and is no way
intended to put you down.

None of what you quoted here comes from the Rulse Of Conduct and
therefore does not apply. The Rules Of Conduct are found at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/ga...RulesofConduct
and the pertinent part states:
"We ask that you refrain from posting advertisements or solicitations
that do not pertain directly to the intended use and purpose of the
newsgroup or chat."

Nonetheless, here is my response ---

As far as advertising, please explain in concrete terms how "Contact me
at my email address below if you would like outside help with this. My
fees are very reasonable" is advertising. My sig is advertising but again
it pertains to the purpose of the newsgroups to provide Access users a
resource for help with Access related problems. Duane Hookom, MS Access
is the same type of advertising. So is the following:
o "MVPDoug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP"
o "See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs."
o "John Viescas, author
"Building Microsoft Access Applications" (Coming Soon!)
"Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out"
"Running Microsoft Access 2000"
"SQL Queries for Mere Mortals"
o David Lloyd
MCSD .NET
http://LemingtonConsulting.com
The above are a very small example of what you see daily on the
newsgroups.

In terms of Contact me if you would like help, I am not the only one to
post this type of post. Every once in a while you will see offers from
others besides myself. Consider the following:
genenky -
You can contact me via www.cadellsoftware.org and we can discuss what
you're seeking to do.-

Ken Snell
MS ACCESS MVP

No one posts derogatory responses to these others. Is it because Ken is
an MVP?

In terms of advertising, consider the following in the sig line of an
infrequent responder:
"A Christian Response
http://www.pastornet.net.au/response"

Check out the web address. It has absolutely nothing to do with Access.
You see other adverts like this and adverts that are directly in the body
of the post. None of the above are ever taken to task for advertising
that obviously does not pertain to providing Access users a resource for
help with Access problems.

In conclusion, I want to ask that you drop out of the crowd of the likes
of Arno R, Keith Wilby, Randy Harris and others and defend me from their
malicious attacks. If you are not willing to do this then I ask that you
keep silent rather than trying to support them.

Thanks, Duane,

Steve



"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...

I did a quick search of google:
"NewsGroup" etiquette advertise

First Hit
=========================
http://www.netscape.co.uk/help/faqs/...oupmanners.htm
Don't Spam
Spamming is e-mailing or posting unsolicited advertising. Never post
advertising on a Newsgroup unless it is specifically created to accept
adverts.

Second Hit
=========================
http://groups.google.com/googlegroup...ing_style.html
Please do not use Usenet as an advertising medium.
Advertisements on Usenet are rarely appreciated. In general, the louder
or more inappropriate the ad is, the more antagonism it stirs up. Just
think how annoying it is to you to have your evening meal interrupted by
a telemarketer. The feeling is the same when someone posts inappropriate
commercial messages in a newsgroup. If in doubt, don't do it.

Third Hit
==========================
http://www.gotfusion.com/tutsTD/groupetiquette.cfm
DO NOT Advertise: It doesn't work, it gets people really really mad,
it gets me really really mad, and no matter what you say it will not be
taken well. Everyone HATES SPAM. This is one of the things that will
guarantee that I bring out my "big hammer" and remove your thread. Do
not answer posts of this nature as it just adds to the number of posts I
have to remove. If you continue to advertise after being warned you may
find yourself blacklisted from posting anything on these newsgroups.

Fourth Hit
==========================
http://www.mommyshelperonline.com/email-etiquette.html
6.) Use 4-6 lines for your signature line, this is an opportunity to
highlight your business or company information, but don't be
ostentatious..


--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
arthlink.net...

Doug,

I have always respected your approach and continue to feel that way. My
intent here is not meant to put you down in any way. I just am asking
you on a professional level where specifically does it say that offers
of help on an Access related problem for a fee are prohibited?

Steve


"Douglas J. Steele" wrote in
message ...

These newsgroups are not intended for you to solicit commercial
business.

You know that: you've been told MANY times by MANY different people,
yet you still persist.

Are you really that egocentric that you figure you can ignore
everyone?

--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no e-mails, please!)



"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
. earthlink.net...

Why don't you explain it to me in concrete terms, Doug.


"Douglas J. Steele" wrote in
message ...

You just don't get it, do you Steve?

--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no e-mails, please!)



"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
tl.earthlink.net...

Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help
with this. My fees are very reasonable.

--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications

www.pcdatasheet.com











  #25  
Old October 11th, 2005, 09:36 AM
WSF
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Well Sharon,
You must be wondering what the hell you have started here.
I wish I could address you problem, but I cannot.
I hope somebody answers you question soon.
BTW its not a good idea to send attachments with your posts. Generally
no one will open them fearing a payload!

Cheers,
WSF

sharan wrote:
Please see the attachment. How can I create a form like this to store
information.

Here is what I have done.

Created table BUSINESS , which has all the business names.
Created table CATEGORY , that has the Business name and Category Name.
Created table SUB CATEGORY , that has the Category Name and Sub Category
Name.

Created table APPLICATION , Which has all the Application Names
Created table COMPONET, Which has the Application Name and Component Name.

I have linked all the tables and have primary keys.

Create a query which would pull out all the Business, Category , Subcategory
, Application and Component infomation.

PROBLEM: If you look at the attachment I need to store values X. How doI
store this information and it which Table. Also how can I design a form like
the Excel sheet that helps me to store Information in a user friendly way.

Thanks,
Sharan.




  #26  
Old October 11th, 2005, 12:21 PM
John Marshall, MVP
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

What has posting a question or an answer got to do with credibility? He
raises a legitimate point, but you respond by personally attacking him. The
newsgroups are full of lurkers who find answers to their questions or
enhance their knowledge by reading the newsgroups without having to post a
question or an answer, .

Are you such a novice to newsgroups that you do not understand that David
uses disucussions.microsoft.com as part of his user name to prevent his
email address being harvested? I'm willing to bet his name really is David
Mueller and that your parents names are not the Datasheets.

You enjoy twisting comments about your behaviour to fit your behaviour. Are
you sure you are not a lawyer? You have the ambulance chasing part down pat.

In a previous thread I mentioned that at least someone did mention that
there was cost to their help. You twisted that to be that I considered that
form of advertising was ok. I consider that case to be similar to someone
tossing a hand grenade in a room versus someone tossing a hand grenade in a
room and yelling DUCK! The second version is slightly better because it did
warn the occupants about what could happen, but that does not mean I agree
with throwing hand grenades into occupied rooms.

John... Visio MVP

"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
You have no credibility whoever you are!

You have not posted or responded in the Access newsgroups in the past
three years and you hide behind discussions.microsoft.com trying to avoid
being traced.

Steve


"David Mueller" wrote in message
news
Steve,

My dad, who clicks twice when he only needs to click once, already knows
that newsgroups are not the place for commercial activity. If Sharan
wanted
for-hire services she wouldn't have posted here. You know that!!!

a large number of participants in this newsgroup are opposed to your
crass
commercial activities


I am one of the large number of participants in this newsgroup that is
opposed to your commercial activites. And just because its Columbus Day,
and
I don't have much to do, I'll waste my time to tell you.

Normally, the large number of us don't bother to post, but from now on, I
think I will. Most of us roll our eyes and grunt over at the 15-20
seconds it
took for your post to load, and for us to read it. That is 20 seconds of
our
lives that we'll never get back.

You write well enough that I know you're not as thick as you act. For
someone who admits to reading news groups for many years, you know darn
well
that solicitation/commercial activity is not welcome.


What concrete evidence do you have to support this statement?


Stop hiding behind a lack of concrete evidence. Social groups have what
are
called mores (mo * res) that are not documented, but are accepted and
expected of the group.

Please move on to something else.





  #27  
Old October 11th, 2005, 03:05 PM
David Mueller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I can't believe you tried to drop that smelly old argumentum ad hominem on
this group!

If anyone lacks credibility it is you since I have three contributory posts
on this forum: two dated 7/29/05; one dated 7/15/05; in addition to a
question for help.

Although it has nothing to do with the issue at hand - David Mueller is my
real name.


"PC Datasheet" wrote:

You have no credibility whoever you are!

You have not posted or responded in the Access newsgroups in the past three
years and you hide behind discussions.microsoft.com trying to avoid being
traced.

Steve


"David Mueller" wrote in message
news
Steve,

My dad, who clicks twice when he only needs to click once, already knows
that newsgroups are not the place for commercial activity. If Sharan
wanted
for-hire services she wouldn't have posted here. You know that!!!

a large number of participants in this newsgroup are opposed to your
crass
commercial activities


I am one of the large number of participants in this newsgroup that is
opposed to your commercial activites. And just because its Columbus Day,
and
I don't have much to do, I'll waste my time to tell you.

Normally, the large number of us don't bother to post, but from now on, I
think I will. Most of us roll our eyes and grunt over at the 15-20 seconds
it
took for your post to load, and for us to read it. That is 20 seconds of
our
lives that we'll never get back.

You write well enough that I know you're not as thick as you act. For
someone who admits to reading news groups for many years, you know darn
well
that solicitation/commercial activity is not welcome.


What concrete evidence do you have to support this statement?


Stop hiding behind a lack of concrete evidence. Social groups have what
are
called mores (mo * res) that are not documented, but are accepted and
expected of the group.

Please move on to something else.




  #28  
Old October 11th, 2005, 03:38 PM
Marshall Barton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

David, there is absolutely no need for you to defend
yourself from such an obviously spurious attack. Your
credibility is every bit as good as anyone's and better than
that of someone with an established pattern of irritating
behavior.
--
Marsh


David Mueller wrote:
I can't believe you tried to drop that smelly old argumentum ad hominem on
this group!

If anyone lacks credibility it is you since I have three contributory posts
on this forum: two dated 7/29/05; one dated 7/15/05; in addition to a
question for help.

Although it has nothing to do with the issue at hand - David Mueller is my
real name.


"PC Datasheet" wrote:
You have no credibility whoever you are!

You have not posted or responded in the Access newsgroups in the past three
years and you hide behind discussions.microsoft.com trying to avoid being
traced.

Steve


  #29  
Old October 11th, 2005, 03:59 PM
David Mueller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"PC Datasheet" wrote:

So answer this ----
On a scale of 0 to 10, rate your feeling for what you would like to see as
to what percentage of posters with a legitimate problem gets his problem
solved from the newsgroups where 0 is None and 10 is All.


The question put to you (Duane) is a legitimate question and deserves a legitimate
answer not an Arno R response.


This question is another logical fallacy similar to your ad hominem attack
on me earlier. This latest "begs the question", therefore it is not a
legitimate question in this context.

In other words, ... of course everyone wants everyone to get all the help
they need. But that says nothing regarding the intention, culture, or rules
of the newsgroup. If you want the intention changed, lobby Microsoft, or
start your own discussion forum on your own dime. If you need help setting
up your own newsgroup/blog/discussion forum, there are plenty of
newsgroup/discussion forum sites that offer free help and advice!

If you have other questions, please refer to my previous post. I have work
to do...
  #30  
Old October 11th, 2005, 04:41 PM
PC Datasheet
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Your statements are simply not true! Below are direct quotes from the
previous thread. Your last line explicitly suggests that I indictate my
offer of help is fee-based in my "call me" messages. I took your suggestion
since then and have tried to do that in each "call me" message. Take a look
at my response in this thread. I said "My fees are very reasonable"; just as
you suggested.


I know that and provide a lot of free support in the Access newsgroups!

True, but that is not the issue you are being taken to task on. It is your
offering to help without disclosing the cost.

...... When you post any of your "call me" messages, you need to indicate
that
unlike other offers of help, your help comes at a price.

Steve


"John Marshall, MVP" wrote in message
...
What has posting a question or an answer got to do with credibility? He
raises a legitimate point, but you respond by personally attacking him.
The newsgroups are full of lurkers who find answers to their questions or
enhance their knowledge by reading the newsgroups without having to post a
question or an answer, .

Are you such a novice to newsgroups that you do not understand that David
uses disucussions.microsoft.com as part of his user name to prevent his
email address being harvested? I'm willing to bet his name really is David
Mueller and that your parents names are not the Datasheets.

You enjoy twisting comments about your behaviour to fit your behaviour.
Are you sure you are not a lawyer? You have the ambulance chasing part
down pat.

In a previous thread I mentioned that at least someone did mention that
there was cost to their help. You twisted that to be that I considered
that form of advertising was ok. I consider that case to be similar to
someone tossing a hand grenade in a room versus someone tossing a hand
grenade in a room and yelling DUCK! The second version is slightly better
because it did warn the occupants about what could happen, but that does
not mean I agree with throwing hand grenades into occupied rooms.

John... Visio MVP

"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
You have no credibility whoever you are!

You have not posted or responded in the Access newsgroups in the past
three years and you hide behind discussions.microsoft.com trying to avoid
being traced.

Steve


"David Mueller" wrote in message
news
Steve,

My dad, who clicks twice when he only needs to click once, already knows
that newsgroups are not the place for commercial activity. If Sharan
wanted
for-hire services she wouldn't have posted here. You know that!!!

a large number of participants in this newsgroup are opposed to your
crass
commercial activities

I am one of the large number of participants in this newsgroup that is
opposed to your commercial activites. And just because its Columbus
Day, and
I don't have much to do, I'll waste my time to tell you.

Normally, the large number of us don't bother to post, but from now on,
I
think I will. Most of us roll our eyes and grunt over at the 15-20
seconds it
took for your post to load, and for us to read it. That is 20 seconds
of our
lives that we'll never get back.

You write well enough that I know you're not as thick as you act. For
someone who admits to reading news groups for many years, you know darn
well
that solicitation/commercial activity is not welcome.


What concrete evidence do you have to support this statement?


Stop hiding behind a lack of concrete evidence. Social groups have what
are
called mores (mo * res) that are not documented, but are accepted and
expected of the group.

Please move on to something else.







 




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