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column width versus cell width



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 1st, 2005, 10:02 AM
2dogs
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default column width versus cell width

What is the difference between cell width and column width in the table
properties. I find they do the same thing. If I adjust the cell width it
adjusts the entire column. Sometimes it wont do anything at all.
--
2dogs in Oregon USA
  #2  
Old October 1st, 2005, 01:37 PM
Herb Tyson [MVP]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default column width versus cell width

If you completely select one or more cells before adjusting the width, then
only the width of the selected cells will be changed. If no cells are
selected, then Word assumes that you want to adjust the width of the entire
column.

To select a cell, move the mouse pointer to the left side of a cell so that
an arrow pointing northeast appears, then click.

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP
Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along.
"2dogs" wrote in message
...
What is the difference between cell width and column width in the table
properties. I find they do the same thing. If I adjust the cell width it
adjusts the entire column. Sometimes it wont do anything at all.
--
2dogs in Oregon USA



  #3  
Old October 1st, 2005, 09:14 PM
2dogs
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default column width versus cell width

I tested this suggstion several times but it did not work. Here are my exact
steps and results.

TEST ONE
1. Start Word
2. Open new blank document
3. In "Page Setup" set left and right margins to 1".
4. Click "Insert Table" icon on Standard toolbar.
5. Insert a 3 x 3 table
6. Select the center cell in the top row (when the cursor becomes a litle
selection arrow).
7. Go to Cell tab in properties dialog, the default width of the cell is
shown as 2.22 and preferred width is checked.
8. Change width setting to 1.0 and click OK.
9. Result, nothing happens.

TEST TWO
1. perform the exact same steps as in TEST ONE except on step 8 change the
width setting to 3."
2. Result, the entire column width changes to 3".

TEST THREE
1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 7
2. Change width setting to 1".
3. Go to Column tab and uncheck "preferred width"
4. Click OK
5. Result, entire column is resized to 1".

TEST FOUR
1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 6 (default cell width is left unchanged)
2. Go to Column tab and uncheck "Preferred width"
3. Click OK
4. Result, the entire center column collapses even though the "Cell width"
was still set at 2.2".


Please try these same EXACT steps and see how it works for you.

--
2dogs in Oregon USA


"Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote:

If you completely select one or more cells before adjusting the width, then
only the width of the selected cells will be changed. If no cells are
selected, then Word assumes that you want to adjust the width of the entire
column.

To select a cell, move the mouse pointer to the left side of a cell so that
an arrow pointing northeast appears, then click.

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP


  #4  
Old October 1st, 2005, 09:50 PM
Tony Jollans
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default column width versus cell width


There is a difference between (actual) width and preferred width.

Preferred width was introduced in Word 2000 and it allows you to express
preferences which may or may not be the deciding factor in determining actual
table properties.

When you specify a preferred width for a single cell in a column of a
different width, Word has to decide how to interpret the conflicting values
it has. In Word 97, the top row (and only the top row) would have been
resized to accommodate the explicit request for a certain width; there wasn't
really any other choice it could make. In Word 2000 (and later) Word has a
choice and it chooses as you have seen. You may not like its choice but it
has a set of guiding principles; if you want something different you must
provide a different set of (possibly still conflicting) values and you may
have to use a bit of trial and error because I am not aware of any
documentation on how Word makes its decisions.

You can, if you wish, still use the old (Word 97) dialog and get the old
behaviour. There are three commands: TableFormatCell, TableCellWidth, and
TableRowHeight and they are available via the Word Commands list under Tools
Macro Macros (Alt+F8). Alternatively you can add them to your toolbars

via Tools Customize Commands (tab), Category "All Commands" - scroll down
the list on the right to find them.

Enjoy,
Tony


"2dogs" wrote:

I tested this suggstion several times but it did not work. Here are my exact
steps and results.

TEST ONE
1. Start Word
2. Open new blank document
3. In "Page Setup" set left and right margins to 1".
4. Click "Insert Table" icon on Standard toolbar.
5. Insert a 3 x 3 table
6. Select the center cell in the top row (when the cursor becomes a litle
selection arrow).
7. Go to Cell tab in properties dialog, the default width of the cell is
shown as 2.22 and preferred width is checked.
8. Change width setting to 1.0 and click OK.
9. Result, nothing happens.

TEST TWO
1. perform the exact same steps as in TEST ONE except on step 8 change the
width setting to 3."
2. Result, the entire column width changes to 3".

TEST THREE
1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 7
2. Change width setting to 1".
3. Go to Column tab and uncheck "preferred width"
4. Click OK
5. Result, entire column is resized to 1".

TEST FOUR
1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 6 (default cell width is left unchanged)
2. Go to Column tab and uncheck "Preferred width"
3. Click OK
4. Result, the entire center column collapses even though the "Cell width"
was still set at 2.2".


Please try these same EXACT steps and see how it works for you.

--
2dogs in Oregon USA


"Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote:

If you completely select one or more cells before adjusting the width, then
only the width of the selected cells will be changed. If no cells are
selected, then Word assumes that you want to adjust the width of the entire
column.

To select a cell, move the mouse pointer to the left side of a cell so that
an arrow pointing northeast appears, then click.

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP


  #5  
Old October 1st, 2005, 10:02 PM
2dogs
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default column width versus cell width

upper row, bottom row, center row, it makes no difference. This behavior is
totally unpredictable. For example, why will changing the value to a larger
value have an affect but changing to a lower value doesn't. The whole
operation seems ambiguous to me. (and everybody else I have talked to)
--
2dogs in Oregon USA


"Tony Jollans" wrote:


There is a difference between (actual) width and preferred width.

Preferred width was introduced in Word 2000 and it allows you to express
preferences which may or may not be the deciding factor in determining actual
table properties.

When you specify a preferred width for a single cell in a column of a
different width, Word has to decide how to interpret the conflicting values
it has. In Word 97, the top row (and only the top row) would have been
resized to accommodate the explicit request for a certain width; there wasn't
really any other choice it could make. In Word 2000 (and later) Word has a
choice and it chooses as you have seen. You may not like its choice but it
has a set of guiding principles; if you want something different you must
provide a different set of (possibly still conflicting) values and you may
have to use a bit of trial and error because I am not aware of any
documentation on how Word makes its decisions.

You can, if you wish, still use the old (Word 97) dialog and get the old
behaviour. There are three commands: TableFormatCell, TableCellWidth, and
TableRowHeight and they are available via the Word Commands list under Tools
Macro Macros (Alt+F8). Alternatively you can add them to your toolbars

via Tools Customize Commands (tab), Category "All Commands" - scroll down
the list on the right to find them.

Enjoy,
Tony


"2dogs" wrote:

I tested this suggstion several times but it did not work. Here are my exact
steps and results.

TEST ONE
1. Start Word
2. Open new blank document
3. In "Page Setup" set left and right margins to 1".
4. Click "Insert Table" icon on Standard toolbar.
5. Insert a 3 x 3 table
6. Select the center cell in the top row (when the cursor becomes a litle
selection arrow).
7. Go to Cell tab in properties dialog, the default width of the cell is
shown as 2.22 and preferred width is checked.
8. Change width setting to 1.0 and click OK.
9. Result, nothing happens.

TEST TWO
1. perform the exact same steps as in TEST ONE except on step 8 change the
width setting to 3."
2. Result, the entire column width changes to 3".

TEST THREE
1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 7
2. Change width setting to 1".
3. Go to Column tab and uncheck "preferred width"
4. Click OK
5. Result, entire column is resized to 1".

TEST FOUR
1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 6 (default cell width is left unchanged)
2. Go to Column tab and uncheck "Preferred width"
3. Click OK
4. Result, the entire center column collapses even though the "Cell width"
was still set at 2.2".


Please try these same EXACT steps and see how it works for you.

--
2dogs in Oregon USA


"Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote:

If you completely select one or more cells before adjusting the width, then
only the width of the selected cells will be changed. If no cells are
selected, then Word assumes that you want to adjust the width of the entire
column.

To select a cell, move the mouse pointer to the left side of a cell so that
an arrow pointing northeast appears, then click.

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP


  #6  
Old October 1st, 2005, 10:46 PM
Tony Jollans
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default column width versus cell width

In general, the largest of the all the individual cell preferred widths and
the column preferred width will take precedence (although other settings may
come into play). As I said, you may not like it, but that doesn't make it
unpredictable.

If you don't like the way the feature works you don't have to use it; I do
recognise that the old dialog is not exactly at your fingertips but it is
there. It seems to me like all bases are covered.

Enjoy,
Tony



"2dogs" wrote:

upper row, bottom row, center row, it makes no difference. This behavior is
totally unpredictable. For example, why will changing the value to a larger
value have an affect but changing to a lower value doesn't. The whole
operation seems ambiguous to me. (and everybody else I have talked to)
--
2dogs in Oregon USA


  #7  
Old October 2nd, 2005, 02:01 AM
2dogs
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default column width versus cell width

I have found your general explination to be totally without merit. When put
to the test it does not wash. I appreciate your participation. And I thank
you for your permission to use or not use the feature if I don't like it.
(Frankly, I think this is the kind of answer a person gives when they don't
know the answer.) I am not criticizing the operation or the application. I am
a fan and ardent user of Word. I am trying to understand how these 2 items
interact and in that regard you have not been very enlightening. Did you try
the simple tests I described. If you did please try to explain the results
with something better than "that's just the way it works". I could really use
some viable input.
--
2dogs in Oregon USA


"Tony Jollans" wrote:

In general, the largest of the all the individual cell preferred widths and
the column preferred width will take precedence (although other settings may
come into play). As I said, you may not like it, but that doesn't make it
unpredictable.

If you don't like the way the feature works you don't have to use it; I do
recognise that the old dialog is not exactly at your fingertips but it is
there. It seems to me like all bases are covered.

Enjoy,
Tony



"2dogs" wrote:

upper row, bottom row, center row, it makes no difference. This behavior is
totally unpredictable. For example, why will changing the value to a larger
value have an affect but changing to a lower value doesn't. The whole
operation seems ambiguous to me. (and everybody else I have talked to)
--
2dogs in Oregon USA


  #8  
Old October 2nd, 2005, 03:19 AM
Herb Tyson [MVP]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default column width versus cell width

Ah, now I see what you're doing. I get the exact same results you get. Note
that there *is* a way to get what you want. But, that doesn't mean that what
you're doing shouldn't work as well (IMO).

When I first saw your question, I assumed that you were *dragging* cell
borders to change the width of cells, since that seems the natural way to do
it (from my vantage). Select a cell, then *drag* its left or right border to
the left or right. Just that cell changes! And, if you need exact settings,
then hold down the Alt key as you drag, and Word will show you the
dimensions as you drag. You can also drag using the controls on the ruler.

In my view, the fact that what you're trying doesn't work is a bug. Since
adjusting cells and columns yield the identical results, it makes having a
separate cell tab essentially redundant (not to mention frustrating).

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP
Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along.
"2dogs" wrote in message
...
I tested this suggstion several times but it did not work. Here are my
exact
steps and results.

TEST ONE
1. Start Word
2. Open new blank document
3. In "Page Setup" set left and right margins to 1".
4. Click "Insert Table" icon on Standard toolbar.
5. Insert a 3 x 3 table
6. Select the center cell in the top row (when the cursor becomes a litle
selection arrow).
7. Go to Cell tab in properties dialog, the default width of the cell is
shown as 2.22 and preferred width is checked.
8. Change width setting to 1.0 and click OK.
9. Result, nothing happens.

TEST TWO
1. perform the exact same steps as in TEST ONE except on step 8 change the
width setting to 3."
2. Result, the entire column width changes to 3".

TEST THREE
1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 7
2. Change width setting to 1".
3. Go to Column tab and uncheck "preferred width"
4. Click OK
5. Result, entire column is resized to 1".

TEST FOUR
1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 6 (default cell width is left
unchanged)
2. Go to Column tab and uncheck "Preferred width"
3. Click OK
4. Result, the entire center column collapses even though the "Cell width"
was still set at 2.2".


Please try these same EXACT steps and see how it works for you.

--
2dogs in Oregon USA


"Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote:

If you completely select one or more cells before adjusting the width,
then
only the width of the selected cells will be changed. If no cells are
selected, then Word assumes that you want to adjust the width of the
entire
column.

To select a cell, move the mouse pointer to the left side of a cell so
that
an arrow pointing northeast appears, then click.

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP




  #9  
Old October 2nd, 2005, 03:37 AM
2dogs
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default column width versus cell width

I tried to be very specific about the little test so there would be clear
understanding that is hard to convey in words.

I think I have come to the same conclusion. I have been trying this command
every way I could think of for the last 2 days with no consistant or
repeatable resuslt. There are many ways to get cells of different sizes
(splitting and adjusting, drawing, dragging, etc.) but this method seems to
be bunk. It's very embarassing when a client calls and asks how to set the
cell width and when you tell him to use this method he says your an idiot.
Know, what I mean?
--
2dogs in Oregon USA


"Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote:

Ah, now I see what you're doing. I get the exact same results you get. Note
that there *is* a way to get what you want. But, that doesn't mean that what
you're doing shouldn't work as well (IMO).

When I first saw your question, I assumed that you were *dragging* cell
borders to change the width of cells, since that seems the natural way to do
it (from my vantage). Select a cell, then *drag* its left or right border to
the left or right. Just that cell changes! And, if you need exact settings,
then hold down the Alt key as you drag, and Word will show you the
dimensions as you drag. You can also drag using the controls on the ruler.

In my view, the fact that what you're trying doesn't work is a bug. Since
adjusting cells and columns yield the identical results, it makes having a
separate cell tab essentially redundant (not to mention frustrating).

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP
Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along.
"2dogs" wrote in message
...
I tested this suggstion several times but it did not work. Here are my
exact
steps and results.

TEST ONE
1. Start Word
2. Open new blank document
3. In "Page Setup" set left and right margins to 1".
4. Click "Insert Table" icon on Standard toolbar.
5. Insert a 3 x 3 table
6. Select the center cell in the top row (when the cursor becomes a litle
selection arrow).
7. Go to Cell tab in properties dialog, the default width of the cell is
shown as 2.22 and preferred width is checked.
8. Change width setting to 1.0 and click OK.
9. Result, nothing happens.

TEST TWO
1. perform the exact same steps as in TEST ONE except on step 8 change the
width setting to 3."
2. Result, the entire column width changes to 3".

TEST THREE
1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 7
2. Change width setting to 1".
3. Go to Column tab and uncheck "preferred width"
4. Click OK
5. Result, entire column is resized to 1".

TEST FOUR
1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 6 (default cell width is left
unchanged)
2. Go to Column tab and uncheck "Preferred width"
3. Click OK
4. Result, the entire center column collapses even though the "Cell width"
was still set at 2.2".


Please try these same EXACT steps and see how it works for you.

--
2dogs in Oregon USA


"Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote:

If you completely select one or more cells before adjusting the width,
then
only the width of the selected cells will be changed. If no cells are
selected, then Word assumes that you want to adjust the width of the
entire
column.

To select a cell, move the mouse pointer to the left side of a cell so
that
an arrow pointing northeast appears, then click.

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP





  #10  
Old October 2nd, 2005, 03:51 AM
Herb Tyson [MVP]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default column width versus cell width

Yep. Exactly. Tell the client to select the cell and drag its borders.

But, at least you now know where the wall and your head meet. ;-)

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP
Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along.
"2dogs" wrote in message
...
I tried to be very specific about the little test so there would be clear
understanding that is hard to convey in words.

I think I have come to the same conclusion. I have been trying this
command
every way I could think of for the last 2 days with no consistant or
repeatable resuslt. There are many ways to get cells of different sizes
(splitting and adjusting, drawing, dragging, etc.) but this method seems
to
be bunk. It's very embarassing when a client calls and asks how to set the
cell width and when you tell him to use this method he says your an idiot.
Know, what I mean?
--
2dogs in Oregon USA


"Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote:

Ah, now I see what you're doing. I get the exact same results you get.
Note
that there *is* a way to get what you want. But, that doesn't mean that
what
you're doing shouldn't work as well (IMO).

When I first saw your question, I assumed that you were *dragging* cell
borders to change the width of cells, since that seems the natural way to
do
it (from my vantage). Select a cell, then *drag* its left or right border
to
the left or right. Just that cell changes! And, if you need exact
settings,
then hold down the Alt key as you drag, and Word will show you the
dimensions as you drag. You can also drag using the controls on the
ruler.

In my view, the fact that what you're trying doesn't work is a bug. Since
adjusting cells and columns yield the identical results, it makes having
a
separate cell tab essentially redundant (not to mention frustrating).

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP
Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along.
"2dogs" wrote in message
...
I tested this suggstion several times but it did not work. Here are my
exact
steps and results.

TEST ONE
1. Start Word
2. Open new blank document
3. In "Page Setup" set left and right margins to 1".
4. Click "Insert Table" icon on Standard toolbar.
5. Insert a 3 x 3 table
6. Select the center cell in the top row (when the cursor becomes a
litle
selection arrow).
7. Go to Cell tab in properties dialog, the default width of the cell
is
shown as 2.22 and preferred width is checked.
8. Change width setting to 1.0 and click OK.
9. Result, nothing happens.

TEST TWO
1. perform the exact same steps as in TEST ONE except on step 8 change
the
width setting to 3."
2. Result, the entire column width changes to 3".

TEST THREE
1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 7
2. Change width setting to 1".
3. Go to Column tab and uncheck "preferred width"
4. Click OK
5. Result, entire column is resized to 1".

TEST FOUR
1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 6 (default cell width is left
unchanged)
2. Go to Column tab and uncheck "Preferred width"
3. Click OK
4. Result, the entire center column collapses even though the "Cell
width"
was still set at 2.2".


Please try these same EXACT steps and see how it works for you.

--
2dogs in Oregon USA


"Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote:

If you completely select one or more cells before adjusting the width,
then
only the width of the selected cells will be changed. If no cells are
selected, then Word assumes that you want to adjust the width of the
entire
column.

To select a cell, move the mouse pointer to the left side of a cell so
that
an arrow pointing northeast appears, then click.

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP






 




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