Utility for Table Schemas

Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing
this -- doesn't have to be fancy.

You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I use
this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most
people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or just
go straight to table design?


"David F Cox" wrote in message
...
I believe Microsoft's Visio might do what you want.

"Tim Marshall" wrote in message
...
Neil wrote:
I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a
graphical interface/printing utility, not one that would do the
designing work for me. I want to be able to design the tables manually,
set up relationships, and print the schemas, without creating the
tables, and then create the tables once I'm done with all the design
work. Seems that such a utility exists.

Might be, but I find small yellow stickies (post it notes) work great
when conceptualizing a design. It's certainly possible I'm in the dark
ages, though.
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me

In article xUO3h.3032$l25.2949
@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net, says...
Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing
this -- doesn't have to be fancy.

You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I use
this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most
people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or just
go straight to table design?

I was also expecting to see lots of replies.
This is the only thing I have encountered that is free.
(Assuming it can still be downloaded.)
http://www.fabforce.net/dbdesigner4/
it is really for use with Mysql.

I have also seen this recommended, but the cheapest version is
$229. http://www.datanamic.com/

There are many others and most are expensive.

Here's what we do:

At first: on a whiteboard or using pencil & paper, we sketch out the
high level tables using circles (tables) and lines (relationships). We
indicate the one and many side of each relationship. We may note a
few critical fields under each table, or some sample data in quotes.

When we feel that the initial table level of design will work, we
enter it directly into Access or SQL Server, and use the relationships
window (in Access) or a Diagram (in SQL Server) to lay it all out
graphically.

We don't use a third party tool, but Visio can do it (as another
poster suggested). Another (more expensive) tool is ERWin.

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 22:43:41 GMT, "Neil" wrote:

Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing
this -- doesn't have to be fancy.

You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I use
this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most
people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or just
go straight to table design?


Armen Stein
Microsoft Access MVP
www.JStreetTech.com

What actually I use is a large sheet of paper and a very soft pencil 4B - 6B
and a good eraser. Usually the diagram never gets finished. When I have
sorted out the difficult bits I am off into the table design window. I am
not advocating that anybody follow my example.


"Armen Stein" wrote in message
...

Here's what we do:

At first: on a whiteboard or using pencil & paper, we sketch out the
high level tables using circles (tables) and lines (relationships). We
indicate the one and many side of each relationship. We may note a
few critical fields under each table, or some sample data in quotes.

When we feel that the initial table level of design will work, we
enter it directly into Access or SQL Server, and use the relationships
window (in Access) or a Diagram (in SQL Server) to lay it all out
graphically.

We don't use a third party tool, but Visio can do it (as another
poster suggested). Another (more expensive) tool is ERWin.

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 22:43:41 GMT, "Neil" wrote:

Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing
this -- doesn't have to be fancy.

You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I use
this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most
people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or
just
go straight to table design?


Armen Stein
Microsoft Access MVP
www.JStreetTech.com

Thanks for that!

"Michael Gramelspacher" wrote in message
om...
In article xUO3h.3032$l25.2949
@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net, says...
Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing
this -- doesn't have to be fancy.

You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I
use
this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most
people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or
just
go straight to table design?

I was also expecting to see lots of replies.
This is the only thing I have encountered that is free.
(Assuming it can still be downloaded.)
http://www.fabforce.net/dbdesigner4/
it is really for use with Mysql.

I have also seen this recommended, but the cheapest version is
$229. http://www.datanamic.com/

There are many others and most are expensive.

Thanks for the feedback. I can see the usefulness of that approach. I just
have an aversion to sketching things out manually, and prefer to do
everything on the PC. In the past, I've always just gone in and created
tables in Access, using it as a design tool of sorts. But this project I'm
starting is somewhat complex, and I wanted to lay it out first before going
to table design.

"Armen Stein" wrote in message
...

Here's what we do:

At first: on a whiteboard or using pencil & paper, we sketch out the
high level tables using circles (tables) and lines (relationships). We
indicate the one and many side of each relationship. We may note a
few critical fields under each table, or some sample data in quotes.

When we feel that the initial table level of design will work, we
enter it directly into Access or SQL Server, and use the relationships
window (in Access) or a Diagram (in SQL Server) to lay it all out
graphically.

We don't use a third party tool, but Visio can do it (as another
poster suggested). Another (more expensive) tool is ERWin.

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 22:43:41 GMT, "Neil" wrote:

Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing
this -- doesn't have to be fancy.

You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I use
this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most
people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or
just
go straight to table design?


Armen Stein
Microsoft Access MVP
www.JStreetTech.com

Here's a nice list of such tools:
http://www.databaseanswers.com/modelling_tools.htm
Can't vouch for any of the free ones, but can recommend Erwin, Visio and
Enterprise Architect, all of which I've used.
Cheers,
Paul Ibison SQL Server MVP, www.replicationanswers.com .

Actually, you can use the graphic tools in Excel to draw boxes and lines to
create a simple ER diagrams.

In my classes, I give the students a PowerPoint template that has all the
objects created that they can just copy and paste into a new PowerPoint
document to draw their ER diagrams. It actually works pretty well. You can
find it he http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/TutorialsDesign.html

--
--Roger Carlson
MS Access MVP
www.rogersaccesslibrary.com

"Neil" wrote in message
ink.net...
Yes, I can list tables and fields in Excel; but I'd like to visually
display table relationships and joins. Surely there must be a tool out
there
that does this.

"Karl" wrote in message
t...
You can do this in Excel.

"Neil" wrote in message
nk.net...
I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a
graphical interface/printing utility, not one that would do the
designing
work for me. I want to be able to design the tables manually, set up
relationships, and print the schemas, without creating the tables, and
then create the tables once I'm done with all the design work. Seems
that
such a utility exists.


"Allen Browne" wrote in message
...
A utility to develop table schemas?

If ou are looking for suggestions on how to design schemas for a
variety
of needs, this might be useful:
http://www.databaseanswers.com/data_models/index.htm

In general, though, you only go go the trouble of creating a custom
database if there is no off-the-shelf solution. Therefore the bespoke
Access databases you create all have unique needs, and cannot be
designed by a utility.

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia.
Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html
Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

"Neil" wrote in message
nk.net...
Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility
for
developing table schemas.

Neil wrote:
With me, if it's not on my PC, it gets lost. The only way I find mail is by
knowing which part of the floor it was left on.... My computer files, on the
other hand, are very organized. :-)

8) Re the stickies, the good thing about this stage of development
means I take a day (or three) to clear the myriads of paper, empty pop
bottles, sandwich crusts to clear off my desk and organize myself. 8)


--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me

Thanks!

"Paul Ibison" wrote in message
...
Here's a nice list of such tools:
http://www.databaseanswers.com/modelling_tools.htm
Can't vouch for any of the free ones, but can recommend Erwin, Visio and
Enterprise Architect, all of which I've used.
Cheers,
Paul Ibison SQL Server MVP, www.replicationanswers.com .