Distribution lists don't show up in BCC when sending

Last week I thought I had finally reached the end of the road with the
migration of a client's Outlook Express address book and groups to Outlook
2003 on a new PC. At every step of the way Outlook would NOT co-operate in
setting up the Distribution Lists. Eventually I had to setup a second folder
for the original addresses and groups and run Outlook 2003 with 2 PSTs. If I
then tried to copy or move the newly imported DLs to rationalise everything
it messed up the DLs. Initially the Lists didn't show up in the Address list
when creating messages so I had to manually add them. Not a very intuitive
default.

Finally, I managed to get the Distribution Lists to show up in the BCC line
after 3 visists to my client's office. I thought we had reached the end of
the road until ..................

This morning my client entered his Distribution Lists in the BCC fields of
some important mailouts and received this error:

"The personal distribution list(s) this message is addressed to must contain
recipients. Add at least one recipient to each list."

My client verified the DLs were populated by expanding them but received
another error:

"Cannot perform the requested operation. The command selected is not valid
for this recipient. There was an error while expanding the list. The list
was not fully expanded."

What on earth is going on? I finally managed to get these DLs into Outlook
and it still won't do the right thing. Migration between Outlook and Outlook
Express is a nightmare if you have to keep DLs intact. When I imported from
OE initially not only did Outlook put the items in a folder I did NOT select
but it wiped out the OE Addresss Book! Bravo Microsoft!

zaphod

Further details. I created a new test DL in the Contacts folder containing
the imported DLs and it works fine when sent via CC or BCC.

zaphod

Now you see why we recommend against the use of DL's. They are not robust
and rarely survive importing/exporting.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"zaphod" wrote in message
...
Last week I thought I had finally reached the end of the road with the
migration of a client's Outlook Express address book and groups to Outlook
2003 on a new PC. At every step of the way Outlook would NOT co-operate in
setting up the Distribution Lists. Eventually I had to setup a second
folder
for the original addresses and groups and run Outlook 2003 with 2 PSTs. If
I
then tried to copy or move the newly imported DLs to rationalise
everything
it messed up the DLs. Initially the Lists didn't show up in the Address
list
when creating messages so I had to manually add them. Not a very intuitive
default.

Finally, I managed to get the Distribution Lists to show up in the BCC
line
after 3 visists to my client's office. I thought we had reached the end of
the road until ..................

This morning my client entered his Distribution Lists in the BCC fields of
some important mailouts and received this error:

"The personal distribution list(s) this message is addressed to must
contain
recipients. Add at least one recipient to each list."

My client verified the DLs were populated by expanding them but received
another error:

"Cannot perform the requested operation. The command selected is not valid
for this recipient. There was an error while expanding the list. The list
was not fully expanded."

What on earth is going on? I finally managed to get these DLs into Outlook
and it still won't do the right thing. Migration between Outlook and
Outlook
Express is a nightmare if you have to keep DLs intact. When I imported
from
OE initially not only did Outlook put the items in a folder I did NOT
select
but it wiped out the OE Addresss Book! Bravo Microsoft!

zaphod

Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook] wrote:

Now you see why we recommend against the use of DL's. They are not robust
and rarely survive importing/exporting.

Err, where exactly is this advice documented by Microsoft?

I took the advice against importing and exporting the DLs, preferring to
copy the original PST from the old machine. (Detail: I originally imported
from OE to Outlook on the old PC then copied the PST to the new PC.)

From what I have read, when I create a new folder for the PST and point to
it via Data Management this should bypass import/export problems with DLs.
After much hand-wringing I DID manage to get the DLs into Outlook. Why on
earth can't I now USE them?

What you are saying seems tantamount to admitting that Outlook, despite its
many incarnations, is still beta software? If you "recommend against the use
of DL's" what else do you recommend in its place? In Mozilla Thunderbird I
can create groups to my heart's content, move them, copy them, import them
and export them without a problem. Why can't Outlook do the same considering
the financial muscle Microsoft has? Binary format lock-in seems to be coming
back to haunt Microsoft.

I was merely sympathizing with your plight and confirming that these are
well known limitations for which Microsoft has no solutions. These
limitations are not documented by Microsoft. They are documented by
countless posts to this effect in this and other groups.
Groups in OE are not the same as DL's in Outlook and cannot be imported
successfully in most cases. Nor can DL's be imported from one version of
Outlook to another. Copying the PST file as you did will preserve DL's, but
if the DL was first imported from OE it will not work.
Most of us gave up on DL's long ago in favor of other ways of groups
Contacts such as Categories or separate Contact subfolders.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"zaphod" wrote in message
...
Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook] wrote:

Now you see why we recommend against the use of DL's. They are not robust
and rarely survive importing/exporting.

Err, where exactly is this advice documented by Microsoft?

I took the advice against importing and exporting the DLs, preferring to
copy the original PST from the old machine. (Detail: I originally imported
from OE to Outlook on the old PC then copied the PST to the new PC.)

From what I have read, when I create a new folder for the PST and point to
it via Data Management this should bypass import/export problems with DLs.
After much hand-wringing I DID manage to get the DLs into Outlook. Why on
earth can't I now USE them?

What you are saying seems tantamount to admitting that Outlook, despite
its
many incarnations, is still beta software? If you "recommend against the
use
of DL's" what else do you recommend in its place? In Mozilla Thunderbird I
can create groups to my heart's content, move them, copy them, import them
and export them without a problem. Why can't Outlook do the same
considering
the financial muscle Microsoft has? Binary format lock-in seems to be
coming
back to haunt Microsoft.

Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook] wrote:

Now you see why we recommend against the use of DL's. They are not robust
and rarely survive importing/exporting.

So I want to move DLs from Outlook 2003 to Outlook 2003 on a differnt
machine I've basically had it?

zaphod

zaphod wrote:

Last week I thought I had finally reached the end of the road with the
migration of a client's Outlook Express address book and groups to
Outlook 2003 on a new PC. At every step of the way Outlook would NOT
co-operate in setting up the Distribution Lists. Eventually I had to
setup a second folder for the original addresses and groups and run
Outlook 2003 with 2 PSTs.

Why not two contacts folders in the same PST?

Finally, I managed to get the Distribution Lists to show up in the
BCC line after 3 visists to my client's office. I thought we had
reached the end of the road until ..................

While DLs in Outlook appear to be fragile at times, they's always behaved
well ennough for me unless I did something wrong.

What on earth is going on? I finally managed to get these DLs into
Outlook and it still won't do the right thing. Migration between
Outlook and Outlook Express is a nightmare if you have to keep DLs
intact.

Well, Outlook Express doesn't have "DLs", it has "Groups". What steps did
you take to export the group? I just tested and my OE groups imported as
DLs with no problem whatsoever.

When I imported from OE initially not only did Outlook put
the items in a folder I did NOT select but it wiped out the OE
Addresss Book! Bravo Microsoft!

That just does not happen with me. Describe the exact steps you used.
--
Brian Tillman

zaphod wrote:

So I want to move DLs from Outlook 2003 to Outlook 2003 on a differnt
machine I've basically had it?

Of course not. Just copy (wth Outlook closed) the PST containing the
contacts folder in which they reside and open that PST in the other Outlook.
--
Brian Tillman

Brian Tillman wrote:

zaphod wrote:

Last week I thought I had finally reached the end of the road with the
migration of a client's Outlook Express address book and groups to
Outlook 2003 on a new PC. At every step of the way Outlook would NOT
co-operate in setting up the Distribution Lists. Eventually I had to
setup a second folder for the original addresses and groups and run
Outlook 2003 with 2 PSTs.


Why not two contacts folders in the same PST?

Becaus Outlook would not import the PST from the old PC with DLs intact.


Finally, I managed to get the Distribution Lists to show up in the
BCC line after 3 visists to my client's office. I thought we had
reached the end of the road until ..................


While DLs in Outlook appear to be fragile at times, they's always
behaved well ennough for me unless I did something wrong.

What on earth is going on? I finally managed to get these DLs into
Outlook and it still won't do the right thing. Migration between
Outlook and Outlook Express is a nightmare if you have to keep DLs
intact.


Well, Outlook Express doesn't have "DLs", it has "Groups". What steps
did you take to export the group? I just tested and my OE groups
imported as DLs with no problem whatsoever.

Exporting from OE doesn't work if you want the groups intact so I had to
setup Outlook on the old PC to be able to import directly into Outlook using
the Import tool.

When I imported from OE initially not only did Outlook put
the items in a folder I did NOT select but it wiped out the OE
Addresss Book! Bravo Microsoft!


That just does not happen with me. Describe the exact steps you used.

1. Install Outlook 2003 on the old PC which has OE groups.
2. Create new Contacts subfolder within Outlook called "Backup" so that I
can move existing Contact items there and free Contacts for the incoming OE
items.
3. In Outlook move items from Contacts to Backup
4. In Outlook go to File Import Import Internet Mail & Addresses
Outlook Express 4.x, 5.x, 6.x
5. Select Import Address Book
6. Replace duplicates with items imported
7. Finish

At this point the dialogue assures me that "Addresses will be imported into
your Outlook Contact Folder". Fine in theory. Here's what happened:

1. A dialogue box told me 0 addresses had been imported
2. All addresses and groups were wiped out of Outlook Express

At this point I was convinced I had destroyed my client's business address book.

3. Outlook had imported the OE addresses and groups but put them in the new
Backup folder I later discovered (to my relief/annoyance).
4. Outlook had given me the wrong message about not importig any addresses
successfully.

So, for an hour Outlook convinced me that not only had it wiped the OE
Address book but it hadn't imported anything at all. Explain that one,
Microsoft.

When I discovered the addresses and groups had been imported I quickly made
a backup and tried exporting to a PST file. This failed to keep the DLs
intact so I resorted to creating a second Personal Folder in Outlook on the
new PC, copied the system PST from the old PC and added it via Data File
Management.

The DLs now appeared intact within the new folder but when composing a
message they didn't appear in the Accounts list so I had to manually
instruct them to be included (nice default, Microsoft!).

I thought my problems were over but now, when I attempt to rationlise the 2
Personal Folders by moving the items from the new folder to the original
folder I hit a problem. When everything has been moved and the folder is
removed the imported DLs no longer contain any items! When I restore the
deleted Personal Folder they reappear ... within the OTHER Personal Folder.

All I can say is I'm glad I had the good sense many years ago to ditch
Outlook and go with Mozilla Mail. The nonesense that is going on with
groups/DLs between Outlook and Outlook Express beggars belief. Aren't you
ashamed to be working for a convicted monopolist who charges over £400 for
an office suite that can't even guarantee that a user's DLs/groups will
remain intact when backups are performed? With all its $billions are you
telling me that Microsoft cannot program such a simple task as maintaining
lists of email addresses without such complication and unreliability after
so many incarnations of Outlook?

You made life a lot harder than it needed to be. You could have used
file, open, outlook data file and opened the pst, not imported it. Then drag
the DL to the new pst. You also could have copied the wab to the new machine
and hooked OE to it - then tried the import. It's much easier than
installing outlook and moving the pst from machine to machine.

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Coauthor, OneNote 2003 for Windows (Visual QuickStart Guide)
Author, Google and Other Search Engines (Visual QuickStart Guide)

Outlook Tips: http://www.outlook-tips.net/
Outlook & Exchange Solutions Center: http://www.slipstick.com
Join OneNote Tips mailing list: http://www.onenote-tips.net/


"zaphod" wrote in message
...
Brian Tillman wrote:

zaphod wrote:

Last week I thought I had finally reached the end of the road with the
migration of a client's Outlook Express address book and groups to
Outlook 2003 on a new PC. At every step of the way Outlook would NOT
co-operate in setting up the Distribution Lists. Eventually I had to
setup a second folder for the original addresses and groups and run
Outlook 2003 with 2 PSTs.


Why not two contacts folders in the same PST?

Becaus Outlook would not import the PST from the old PC with DLs intact.


Finally, I managed to get the Distribution Lists to show up in the
BCC line after 3 visists to my client's office. I thought we had
reached the end of the road until ..................


While DLs in Outlook appear to be fragile at times, they's always
behaved well ennough for me unless I did something wrong.

What on earth is going on? I finally managed to get these DLs into
Outlook and it still won't do the right thing. Migration between
Outlook and Outlook Express is a nightmare if you have to keep DLs
intact.


Well, Outlook Express doesn't have "DLs", it has "Groups". What steps
did you take to export the group? I just tested and my OE groups
imported as DLs with no problem whatsoever.

Exporting from OE doesn't work if you want the groups intact so I had to
setup Outlook on the old PC to be able to import directly into Outlook
using
the Import tool.

When I imported from OE initially not only did Outlook put
the items in a folder I did NOT select but it wiped out the OE
Addresss Book! Bravo Microsoft!


That just does not happen with me. Describe the exact steps you used.

1. Install Outlook 2003 on the old PC which has OE groups.
2. Create new Contacts subfolder within Outlook called "Backup" so that I
can move existing Contact items there and free Contacts for the incoming
OE
items.
3. In Outlook move items from Contacts to Backup
4. In Outlook go to File Import Import Internet Mail & Addresses
Outlook Express 4.x, 5.x, 6.x
5. Select Import Address Book
6. Replace duplicates with items imported
7. Finish

At this point the dialogue assures me that "Addresses will be imported
into
your Outlook Contact Folder". Fine in theory. Here's what happened:

1. A dialogue box told me 0 addresses had been imported
2. All addresses and groups were wiped out of Outlook Express

At this point I was convinced I had destroyed my client's business address
book.

3. Outlook had imported the OE addresses and groups but put them in the
new
Backup folder I later discovered (to my relief/annoyance).
4. Outlook had given me the wrong message about not importig any addresses
successfully.

So, for an hour Outlook convinced me that not only had it wiped the OE
Address book but it hadn't imported anything at all. Explain that one,
Microsoft.

When I discovered the addresses and groups had been imported I quickly
made
a backup and tried exporting to a PST file. This failed to keep the DLs
intact so I resorted to creating a second Personal Folder in Outlook on
the
new PC, copied the system PST from the old PC and added it via Data File
Management.

The DLs now appeared intact within the new folder but when composing a
message they didn't appear in the Accounts list so I had to manually
instruct them to be included (nice default, Microsoft!).

I thought my problems were over but now, when I attempt to rationlise the
2
Personal Folders by moving the items from the new folder to the original
folder I hit a problem. When everything has been moved and the folder is
removed the imported DLs no longer contain any items! When I restore the
deleted Personal Folder they reappear ... within the OTHER Personal
Folder.

All I can say is I'm glad I had the good sense many years ago to ditch
Outlook and go with Mozilla Mail. The nonesense that is going on with
groups/DLs between Outlook and Outlook Express beggars belief. Aren't you
ashamed to be working for a convicted monopolist who charges over £400 for
an office suite that can't even guarantee that a user's DLs/groups will
remain intact when backups are performed? With all its $billions are you
telling me that Microsoft cannot program such a simple task as maintaining
lists of email addresses without such complication and unreliability after
so many incarnations of Outlook?