A Microsoft Office (Excel, Word) forum. OfficeFrustration

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » OfficeFrustration forum » Microsoft Word » Page Layout
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read  

Labels-single spacing - how to make default Word 2007



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old August 21st, 2007, 02:03 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
Beth Melton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,566
Default Labels-single spacing - how to make default Word 2007

I pointed this out to you in my previous reply regarding the behavior of
lables in Word 2007 but I'll mention it again. ;-)

On your page you have this note:

"Microsoft appears to have retained the default use of the 'normal'
paragraph style to format tables; however, in Word 2007, the normal
paragraph style has added spacing. This will result in extra spacing between
the lines of the addresses on the labels when created using the label
tool..."

Technically this statement is incorrect. By default, Word 2007 does not add
any additional spacing, not between paragraphs or line spacing, on labels
you create using the Labels command on the Mailings tab. Now, if *you*
modify your Normal style and add extra spacing then in this scenario that
spacing will also be added to the labels. I suspect this is why you are
seeing this behavior.

Note that one of the beta versions did include the additional space but due
to feedback they received this behavior was changed in RTM.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
I don't intentionally post misleading information on my web site, so OK,
I'll bite. What is wrong with the information as it now stands? I have
checked my comments using Word 2007 in its safe mode, but I will concede
that it is possible to get so close to a project that you miss things or
misinterpret things that others see.

I have added a paragraph at the start of the page as it would appear that
I am advocating sticking to ancient ways, whereas my intention was to show
that they were still available. I have also added a hyperlink to allow
readers to jump over the following section.

I am not using nor ever have used the beta version?

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org



Beth Melton wrote:
Incidentally, there is still some misinformation on your page
regarding Word 2007 labels.

Do you happen to still be using a beta version?

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
I made the changes to my web site yesterday, which you may find of
interest - All your users would have to do is save the formatted
merge source document and attach the data file as required (assuming
the same field names)
http://www.gmayor.com/merge_labels_with_word_2007.htm

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org


Icemaiden wrote:
Thanks you both, Beth and Graham, I was starting to think I was
totally missing something and was nuts. I will direct users to make
a default template to use and maybe MS will add something in the
future so this won't be necessary! :-)

Thanks for your time!

LT

"Graham Mayor" wrote:

OK - I see what you mean.

I had prepared my web page
http://www.gmayor.com/merge_labels_with_word_2007.htm based on the
default settings of Word 2007 and noted in it the problem with
spacing of the addresses. I subsequently modified the normal style
which is used as in previous versions as the default for tables and
took it as read that it would apply also to tables created as part
of mail merge - which as you point out it doesn't. Although the
suggestions on my web page for dealing with the spacing remain
valid, the reasons don't so I will have to re-address that over the
weekend

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org




Beth Melton wrote:
Have you actually tried this in Word 2007 and *mail merge* labels,
Graham??
Regular labels are fine and they automatically use no spacing with
no need to modify the defaults. It's when using mail merge this
occurs. As soon as you select Labels as the main document type,
space *before* each paragraph and single space are added as direct
formatting. The new defaults use 10 pts space after (not 12) and
1.15 lines between.
Additional Notes:
- When using Outlook 2007, Word is irrelevant since Outlook no
longer uses Winword.exe and does not use Normal.dotm.
- If you want to avoid the issues with table styles, and other
style nuances we experienced in past versions, then you should
modify the Document Defaults and leave the Normal style
unmodified. - The Normal template for Word 2007 is always
Norma.dotm - never Normal.dotx.

~Beth Melton

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
The normal template in Word 2007 will be normal.dotm (or dotx)
rather than normal.dot which was for earlier versions, and
suggests that you are editing the wrong file. It is certainly
possible to set the normal style to have no space before or
after and thus have labels which match. Right click 'Normal' on
the home tab. Choose 'Modify'. Remove spacing from the paragraph
formatting options. Check the 'new documents based on this
style' check box and when you close out of Word (plus Outlook if
running) , save the normal template when prompted.







  #22  
Old August 21st, 2007, 03:38 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
Graham Mayor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,297
Default Labels-single spacing - how to make default Word 2007

This is not the behaviour I see here - at least not consistently

Here the default setting for the Normal paragraph style is to have 10 points
of space after, and multiple line spacing is set to 1.15.

There is another style in the default set called 'No Spacing' which is what
I would have expected 'Normal. to be.

Normal style is used by default in tables - and this isn't a beta copy of
Word (I skipped the beta process entirely) and is tested for the purpose of
clarification in its safe mode - so tables have added space.

However there is some additional behaviour going on here, which seems a tad
hit and miss. Sometimes when you insert and address into the labels tool
window, the address is posted into the label (new document) with added space
and then it is reformatted to remove the extra padding. Other times it
doesn't do that and the spacing remains. It all seems a tad flaky to me.

I will however return to that disputed paragraph and make some change based
on what I find.

Removing the space from the normal style and creating a new style with the
spacing (I renamed the No Spacing style after I added the spacing to it)
removes the anomaly, and as this was how Word was setup through its recent
versions, I fail to see why they changed it to complicate matters.

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org



Beth Melton wrote:
I pointed this out to you in my previous reply regarding the behavior
of lables in Word 2007 but I'll mention it again. ;-)

On your page you have this note:

"Microsoft appears to have retained the default use of the 'normal'
paragraph style to format tables; however, in Word 2007, the normal
paragraph style has added spacing. This will result in extra spacing
between the lines of the addresses on the labels when created using
the label tool..."

Technically this statement is incorrect. By default, Word 2007 does
not add any additional spacing, not between paragraphs or line
spacing, on labels you create using the Labels command on the
Mailings tab. Now, if *you* modify your Normal style and add extra
spacing then in this scenario that spacing will also be added to the
labels. I suspect this is why you are seeing this behavior.

Note that one of the beta versions did include the additional space
but due to feedback they received this behavior was changed in RTM.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
I don't intentionally post misleading information on my web site, so
OK, I'll bite. What is wrong with the information as it now stands?
I have checked my comments using Word 2007 in its safe mode, but I
will concede that it is possible to get so close to a project that
you miss things or misinterpret things that others see.

I have added a paragraph at the start of the page as it would appear
that I am advocating sticking to ancient ways, whereas my intention
was to show that they were still available. I have also added a
hyperlink to allow readers to jump over the following section.

I am not using nor ever have used the beta version?

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org



Beth Melton wrote:
Incidentally, there is still some misinformation on your page
regarding Word 2007 labels.

Do you happen to still be using a beta version?

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
I made the changes to my web site yesterday, which you may find of
interest - All your users would have to do is save the formatted
merge source document and attach the data file as required
(assuming the same field names)
http://www.gmayor.com/merge_labels_with_word_2007.htm

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org


Icemaiden wrote:
Thanks you both, Beth and Graham, I was starting to think I was
totally missing something and was nuts. I will direct users to
make a default template to use and maybe MS will add something in
the future so this won't be necessary! :-)

Thanks for your time!

LT

"Graham Mayor" wrote:

OK - I see what you mean.

I had prepared my web page
http://www.gmayor.com/merge_labels_with_word_2007.htm based on
the default settings of Word 2007 and noted in it the problem
with spacing of the addresses. I subsequently modified the
normal style which is used as in previous versions as the
default for tables and took it as read that it would apply also
to tables created as part of mail merge - which as you point out
it doesn't. Although the suggestions on my web page for dealing
with the spacing remain valid, the reasons don't so I will have
to re-address that over the weekend

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org




Beth Melton wrote:
Have you actually tried this in Word 2007 and *mail merge*
labels, Graham??
Regular labels are fine and they automatically use no spacing
with no need to modify the defaults. It's when using mail merge
this occurs. As soon as you select Labels as the main document
type, space *before* each paragraph and single space are added
as direct formatting. The new defaults use 10 pts space after
(not 12) and 1.15 lines between.
Additional Notes:
- When using Outlook 2007, Word is irrelevant since Outlook no
longer uses Winword.exe and does not use Normal.dotm.
- If you want to avoid the issues with table styles, and other
style nuances we experienced in past versions, then you should
modify the Document Defaults and leave the Normal style
unmodified. - The Normal template for Word 2007 is always
Norma.dotm - never Normal.dotx.

~Beth Melton

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
The normal template in Word 2007 will be normal.dotm (or dotx)
rather than normal.dot which was for earlier versions, and
suggests that you are editing the wrong file. It is certainly
possible to set the normal style to have no space before or
after and thus have labels which match. Right click 'Normal' on
the home tab. Choose 'Modify'. Remove spacing from the
paragraph formatting options. Check the 'new documents based
on this style' check box and when you close out of Word (plus
Outlook if running) , save the normal template when prompted.



  #23  
Old August 21st, 2007, 03:49 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
Graham Mayor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,297
Default Labels-single spacing - how to make default Word 2007

I have now re-written the offending paragraph -
http://www.gmayor.com/merge_labels_w...2007.htm#Note:
which should now cover what is supposed to happen and what I see happening


--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org


Graham Mayor wrote:
This is not the behaviour I see here - at least not consistently

Here the default setting for the Normal paragraph style is to have 10
points of space after, and multiple line spacing is set to 1.15.

There is another style in the default set called 'No Spacing' which
is what I would have expected 'Normal. to be.

Normal style is used by default in tables - and this isn't a beta
copy of Word (I skipped the beta process entirely) and is tested for
the purpose of clarification in its safe mode - so tables have added
space.
However there is some additional behaviour going on here, which seems
a tad hit and miss. Sometimes when you insert and address into the
labels tool window, the address is posted into the label (new
document) with added space and then it is reformatted to remove the
extra padding. Other times it doesn't do that and the spacing
remains. It all seems a tad flaky to me.
I will however return to that disputed paragraph and make some change
based on what I find.

Removing the space from the normal style and creating a new style
with the spacing (I renamed the No Spacing style after I added the
spacing to it) removes the anomaly, and as this was how Word was
setup through its recent versions, I fail to see why they changed it
to complicate matters.

Beth Melton wrote:
I pointed this out to you in my previous reply regarding the behavior
of lables in Word 2007 but I'll mention it again. ;-)

On your page you have this note:

"Microsoft appears to have retained the default use of the 'normal'
paragraph style to format tables; however, in Word 2007, the normal
paragraph style has added spacing. This will result in extra spacing
between the lines of the addresses on the labels when created using
the label tool..."

Technically this statement is incorrect. By default, Word 2007 does
not add any additional spacing, not between paragraphs or line
spacing, on labels you create using the Labels command on the
Mailings tab. Now, if *you* modify your Normal style and add extra
spacing then in this scenario that spacing will also be added to the
labels. I suspect this is why you are seeing this behavior.

Note that one of the beta versions did include the additional space
but due to feedback they received this behavior was changed in RTM.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
I don't intentionally post misleading information on my web site, so
OK, I'll bite. What is wrong with the information as it now stands?
I have checked my comments using Word 2007 in its safe mode, but I
will concede that it is possible to get so close to a project that
you miss things or misinterpret things that others see.

I have added a paragraph at the start of the page as it would appear
that I am advocating sticking to ancient ways, whereas my intention
was to show that they were still available. I have also added a
hyperlink to allow readers to jump over the following section.

I am not using nor ever have used the beta version?

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org



Beth Melton wrote:
Incidentally, there is still some misinformation on your page
regarding Word 2007 labels.

Do you happen to still be using a beta version?

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
I made the changes to my web site yesterday, which you may find of
interest - All your users would have to do is save the formatted
merge source document and attach the data file as required
(assuming the same field names)
http://www.gmayor.com/merge_labels_with_word_2007.htm

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org


Icemaiden wrote:
Thanks you both, Beth and Graham, I was starting to think I was
totally missing something and was nuts. I will direct users to
make a default template to use and maybe MS will add something in
the future so this won't be necessary! :-)

Thanks for your time!

LT

"Graham Mayor" wrote:

OK - I see what you mean.

I had prepared my web page
http://www.gmayor.com/merge_labels_with_word_2007.htm based on
the default settings of Word 2007 and noted in it the problem
with spacing of the addresses. I subsequently modified the
normal style which is used as in previous versions as the
default for tables and took it as read that it would apply also
to tables created as part of mail merge - which as you point out
it doesn't. Although the suggestions on my web page for dealing
with the spacing remain valid, the reasons don't so I will have
to re-address that over the weekend

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org




Beth Melton wrote:
Have you actually tried this in Word 2007 and *mail merge*
labels, Graham??
Regular labels are fine and they automatically use no spacing
with no need to modify the defaults. It's when using mail merge
this occurs. As soon as you select Labels as the main document
type, space *before* each paragraph and single space are added
as direct formatting. The new defaults use 10 pts space after
(not 12) and 1.15 lines between.
Additional Notes:
- When using Outlook 2007, Word is irrelevant since Outlook no
longer uses Winword.exe and does not use Normal.dotm.
- If you want to avoid the issues with table styles, and other
style nuances we experienced in past versions, then you should
modify the Document Defaults and leave the Normal style
unmodified. - The Normal template for Word 2007 is always
Norma.dotm - never Normal.dotx.

~Beth Melton

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
The normal template in Word 2007 will be normal.dotm (or dotx)
rather than normal.dot which was for earlier versions, and
suggests that you are editing the wrong file. It is certainly
possible to set the normal style to have no space before or
after and thus have labels which match. Right click 'Normal'
on the home tab. Choose 'Modify'. Remove spacing from the
paragraph formatting options. Check the 'new documents based
on this style' check box and when you close out of Word (plus
Outlook if running) , save the normal template when prompted.



  #24  
Old August 21st, 2007, 04:06 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
Graham Mayor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,297
Default Labels-single spacing - how to make default Word 2007

1. Hold down the CTRL key to start Word in its safe mode (thus eliminating
outside issues)
2. Open a new blank document, because safe mode doesn't open any document
space.
3. From the Labels button pick a label from Options (I am using 5264 from
Avery Letter for this experiment)
4 Create a new document from the labels tool (this will give you a new
document and is essentially the same as starting from a label template).
5. On the Mailings Tab click Select Recipients and pick Select From
Outlook Contacts
6. Pick an available contacts list
7. Click Start Merge and choose 'labels'.
8. Cancel the label dialog - we already have the label selected and this
will make available the mailing label functions.
9. Use the Insert Mergefield Button to add fields to your first label (the
tiny arrow at the button will allow you to insert the fields one at a time.
Press enter after each row of fields. The fields now have no padding.
10. Click Update Labels - this propagates the first label content to the
others and adds Next record fields as appropriate. (still no padding added).
11. Click 'Finish and Merge' and choose the option to Edit Individual
Documents. This merges to a new document. Still no padding.

While this process does not follow the logical progression left to right
along the Mailings tab of the ribbon as you would if creating labels from
resident templates, it would be a logical process if the merge is to start
from a label template eg one downloaded from Avery or created yourself for a
specific purpose.


--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org



Beth Melton wrote:
"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
Beth Melton wrote:
"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
Beth Melton wrote:

Regarding adding the "Main Document Setup" command to the QAT, how
does this work any different than using the Start Mail Merge
command on the Mailings tab? The extra space is still added since
it appears to be calling the same routine as the Start Mail Merge
command.

It doesn't work differently - but the space is not added if you
merely change the document type (of an already loaded template) to
labels and then continue the merge process.

If I start with my own labels and use the Main Document Setup
command to change the label type the space is still added. Are you
not seeing the same thing?


Not if you have already attached the data source.

Start with a label format on screen (either from a template or from
the new document feature of the Label tool under Mailings). Attach
the data source (Select Recipients). Whether you now add the fields
or change the document type to 'labels' the space is not added. It
is only added if you choose the document type before you apply the
data source.


I've tried various methods attempting to figure out what you are
seeing but in each scenario, even if I keep the same label type, when
I change the type to labels the space is still added.



  #25  
Old August 21st, 2007, 06:14 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
Beth Melton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,566
Default Labels-single spacing - how to make default Word 2007

Okay, I see what the difference is now, you are cancelling the Label Options
dialog box which, as we previously discussed, doesn't execute the procedure
that adds the extra spacing.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
1. Hold down the CTRL key to start Word in its safe mode (thus eliminating
outside issues)
2. Open a new blank document, because safe mode doesn't open any document
space.
3. From the Labels button pick a label from Options (I am using 5264 from
Avery Letter for this experiment)
4 Create a new document from the labels tool (this will give you a new
document and is essentially the same as starting from a label template).
5. On the Mailings Tab click Select Recipients and pick Select From
Outlook Contacts
6. Pick an available contacts list
7. Click Start Merge and choose 'labels'.
8. Cancel the label dialog - we already have the label selected and this
will make available the mailing label functions.
9. Use the Insert Mergefield Button to add fields to your first label (the
tiny arrow at the button will allow you to insert the fields one at a
time. Press enter after each row of fields. The fields now have no
padding.
10. Click Update Labels - this propagates the first label content to the
others and adds Next record fields as appropriate. (still no padding
added).
11. Click 'Finish and Merge' and choose the option to Edit Individual
Documents. This merges to a new document. Still no padding.

While this process does not follow the logical progression left to right
along the Mailings tab of the ribbon as you would if creating labels from
resident templates, it would be a logical process if the merge is to start
from a label template eg one downloaded from Avery or created yourself for
a specific purpose.


--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org



Beth Melton wrote:
"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
Beth Melton wrote:
"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
Beth Melton wrote:

Regarding adding the "Main Document Setup" command to the QAT, how
does this work any different than using the Start Mail Merge
command on the Mailings tab? The extra space is still added since
it appears to be calling the same routine as the Start Mail Merge
command.

It doesn't work differently - but the space is not added if you
merely change the document type (of an already loaded template) to
labels and then continue the merge process.

If I start with my own labels and use the Main Document Setup
command to change the label type the space is still added. Are you
not seeing the same thing?

Not if you have already attached the data source.

Start with a label format on screen (either from a template or from
the new document feature of the Label tool under Mailings). Attach
the data source (Select Recipients). Whether you now add the fields
or change the document type to 'labels' the space is not added. It
is only added if you choose the document type before you apply the
data source.


I've tried various methods attempting to figure out what you are
seeing but in each scenario, even if I keep the same label type, when
I change the type to labels the space is still added.





  #26  
Old August 21st, 2007, 10:02 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
Beth Melton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,566
Default Labels-single spacing - how to make default Word 2007

Now, the note wasn't offending. ;-)

This is one of those areas I fought hard for during the beta. Originally,
the new default spacing infiltrated *everything*. Labels, envelopes, you
name it. Thankfully Microsoft did listen to the feedback and changed the
behaviors. I suspect there were a few areas that were missed (I'm still
wondering what happened to labels when you use mail merge...) but as a whole
I'm happy with the changes they made. I suspect that's why I wanted to see
the corrections made to your page since it is a 'win' for user feedback. :-)

Also, as for changing everything back to the way it was, instead of
modifying styles and such, you can simply switch to the Word 2003 style set.
This is available under Change Styles/Style Sets. After you select "Word
2003" in the Style Set list, if you want to use it as your default then
click the Change Styles button again and then click "Set as Default".

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
I have now re-written the offending paragraph -
http://www.gmayor.com/merge_labels_w...2007.htm#Note:
which should now cover what is supposed to happen and what I see happening


--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org


Graham Mayor wrote:
This is not the behaviour I see here - at least not consistently

Here the default setting for the Normal paragraph style is to have 10
points of space after, and multiple line spacing is set to 1.15.

There is another style in the default set called 'No Spacing' which
is what I would have expected 'Normal. to be.

Normal style is used by default in tables - and this isn't a beta
copy of Word (I skipped the beta process entirely) and is tested for
the purpose of clarification in its safe mode - so tables have added
space.
However there is some additional behaviour going on here, which seems
a tad hit and miss. Sometimes when you insert and address into the
labels tool window, the address is posted into the label (new
document) with added space and then it is reformatted to remove the
extra padding. Other times it doesn't do that and the spacing
remains. It all seems a tad flaky to me.
I will however return to that disputed paragraph and make some change
based on what I find.

Removing the space from the normal style and creating a new style
with the spacing (I renamed the No Spacing style after I added the
spacing to it) removes the anomaly, and as this was how Word was
setup through its recent versions, I fail to see why they changed it
to complicate matters.

Beth Melton wrote:
I pointed this out to you in my previous reply regarding the behavior
of lables in Word 2007 but I'll mention it again. ;-)

On your page you have this note:

"Microsoft appears to have retained the default use of the 'normal'
paragraph style to format tables; however, in Word 2007, the normal
paragraph style has added spacing. This will result in extra spacing
between the lines of the addresses on the labels when created using
the label tool..."

Technically this statement is incorrect. By default, Word 2007 does
not add any additional spacing, not between paragraphs or line
spacing, on labels you create using the Labels command on the
Mailings tab. Now, if *you* modify your Normal style and add extra
spacing then in this scenario that spacing will also be added to the
labels. I suspect this is why you are seeing this behavior.

Note that one of the beta versions did include the additional space
but due to feedback they received this behavior was changed in RTM.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
I don't intentionally post misleading information on my web site, so
OK, I'll bite. What is wrong with the information as it now stands?
I have checked my comments using Word 2007 in its safe mode, but I
will concede that it is possible to get so close to a project that
you miss things or misinterpret things that others see.

I have added a paragraph at the start of the page as it would appear
that I am advocating sticking to ancient ways, whereas my intention
was to show that they were still available. I have also added a
hyperlink to allow readers to jump over the following section.

I am not using nor ever have used the beta version?

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org



Beth Melton wrote:
Incidentally, there is still some misinformation on your page
regarding Word 2007 labels.

Do you happen to still be using a beta version?

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
I made the changes to my web site yesterday, which you may find of
interest - All your users would have to do is save the formatted
merge source document and attach the data file as required
(assuming the same field names)
http://www.gmayor.com/merge_labels_with_word_2007.htm

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org


Icemaiden wrote:
Thanks you both, Beth and Graham, I was starting to think I was
totally missing something and was nuts. I will direct users to
make a default template to use and maybe MS will add something in
the future so this won't be necessary! :-)

Thanks for your time!

LT

"Graham Mayor" wrote:

OK - I see what you mean.

I had prepared my web page
http://www.gmayor.com/merge_labels_with_word_2007.htm based on
the default settings of Word 2007 and noted in it the problem
with spacing of the addresses. I subsequently modified the
normal style which is used as in previous versions as the
default for tables and took it as read that it would apply also
to tables created as part of mail merge - which as you point out
it doesn't. Although the suggestions on my web page for dealing
with the spacing remain valid, the reasons don't so I will have
to re-address that over the weekend

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org




Beth Melton wrote:
Have you actually tried this in Word 2007 and *mail merge*
labels, Graham??
Regular labels are fine and they automatically use no spacing
with no need to modify the defaults. It's when using mail merge
this occurs. As soon as you select Labels as the main document
type, space *before* each paragraph and single space are added
as direct formatting. The new defaults use 10 pts space after
(not 12) and 1.15 lines between.
Additional Notes:
- When using Outlook 2007, Word is irrelevant since Outlook no
longer uses Winword.exe and does not use Normal.dotm.
- If you want to avoid the issues with table styles, and other
style nuances we experienced in past versions, then you should
modify the Document Defaults and leave the Normal style
unmodified. - The Normal template for Word 2007 is always
Norma.dotm - never Normal.dotx.

~Beth Melton

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
The normal template in Word 2007 will be normal.dotm (or dotx)
rather than normal.dot which was for earlier versions, and
suggests that you are editing the wrong file. It is certainly
possible to set the normal style to have no space before or
after and thus have labels which match. Right click 'Normal'
on the home tab. Choose 'Modify'. Remove spacing from the
paragraph formatting options. Check the 'new documents based
on this style' check box and when you close out of Word (plus
Outlook if running) , save the normal template when prompted.





  #27  
Old August 22nd, 2007, 09:41 AM posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
Graham Mayor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,297
Default Labels-single spacing - how to make default Word 2007

I take your point about style sets, and maybe that needs another note, but I
was working from the basis that the user had default settings (something not
many of us have for very long). Either way, the end result is really all
that matters and I think the page will end up with the user having the
required results for his/her purpose. Certainly the page has had a lot of
hits since I posted it and I have had no feedback from the site to suggest
that users are having problems with it...... yet

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org




Beth Melton wrote:
Now, the note wasn't offending. ;-)

This is one of those areas I fought hard for during the beta.
Originally, the new default spacing infiltrated *everything*. Labels,
envelopes, you name it. Thankfully Microsoft did listen to the
feedback and changed the behaviors. I suspect there were a few areas
that were missed (I'm still wondering what happened to labels when
you use mail merge...) but as a whole I'm happy with the changes they
made. I suspect that's why I wanted to see the corrections made to
your page since it is a 'win' for user feedback. :-)
Also, as for changing everything back to the way it was, instead of
modifying styles and such, you can simply switch to the Word 2003
style set. This is available under Change Styles/Style Sets. After
you select "Word 2003" in the Style Set list, if you want to use it
as your default then click the Change Styles button again and then
click "Set as Default".
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
I have now re-written the offending paragraph -
http://www.gmayor.com/merge_labels_w...2007.htm#Note:
which should now cover what is supposed to happen and what I see
happening

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org


Graham Mayor wrote:
This is not the behaviour I see here - at least not consistently

Here the default setting for the Normal paragraph style is to have
10 points of space after, and multiple line spacing is set to 1.15.

There is another style in the default set called 'No Spacing' which
is what I would have expected 'Normal. to be.

Normal style is used by default in tables - and this isn't a beta
copy of Word (I skipped the beta process entirely) and is tested for
the purpose of clarification in its safe mode - so tables have added
space.
However there is some additional behaviour going on here, which
seems a tad hit and miss. Sometimes when you insert and address
into the labels tool window, the address is posted into the label
(new document) with added space and then it is reformatted to
remove the extra padding. Other times it doesn't do that and the
spacing remains. It all seems a tad flaky to me.
I will however return to that disputed paragraph and make some
change based on what I find.

Removing the space from the normal style and creating a new style
with the spacing (I renamed the No Spacing style after I added the
spacing to it) removes the anomaly, and as this was how Word was
setup through its recent versions, I fail to see why they changed it
to complicate matters.

Beth Melton wrote:
I pointed this out to you in my previous reply regarding the
behavior of lables in Word 2007 but I'll mention it again. ;-)

On your page you have this note:

"Microsoft appears to have retained the default use of the 'normal'
paragraph style to format tables; however, in Word 2007, the normal
paragraph style has added spacing. This will result in extra
spacing between the lines of the addresses on the labels when
created using the label tool..."

Technically this statement is incorrect. By default, Word 2007 does
not add any additional spacing, not between paragraphs or line
spacing, on labels you create using the Labels command on the
Mailings tab. Now, if *you* modify your Normal style and add extra
spacing then in this scenario that spacing will also be added to
the labels. I suspect this is why you are seeing this behavior.

Note that one of the beta versions did include the additional space
but due to feedback they received this behavior was changed in RTM.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
I don't intentionally post misleading information on my web site,
so OK, I'll bite. What is wrong with the information as it now
stands? I have checked my comments using Word 2007 in its safe
mode, but I will concede that it is possible to get so close to a
project that you miss things or misinterpret things that others
see. I have added a paragraph at the start of the page as it would
appear that I am advocating sticking to ancient ways, whereas my
intention was to show that they were still available. I have also
added a hyperlink to allow readers to jump over the following
section. I am not using nor ever have used the beta version?

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org



Beth Melton wrote:
Incidentally, there is still some misinformation on your page
regarding Word 2007 labels.

Do you happen to still be using a beta version?

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests
for assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
I made the changes to my web site yesterday, which you may find
of interest - All your users would have to do is save the
formatted merge source document and attach the data file as
required (assuming the same field names)
http://www.gmayor.com/merge_labels_with_word_2007.htm

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org


Icemaiden wrote:
Thanks you both, Beth and Graham, I was starting to think I was
totally missing something and was nuts. I will direct users to
make a default template to use and maybe MS will add something
in the future so this won't be necessary! :-)

Thanks for your time!

LT

"Graham Mayor" wrote:

OK - I see what you mean.

I had prepared my web page
http://www.gmayor.com/merge_labels_with_word_2007.htm based on
the default settings of Word 2007 and noted in it the problem
with spacing of the addresses. I subsequently modified the
normal style which is used as in previous versions as the
default for tables and took it as read that it would apply
also to tables created as part of mail merge - which as you
point out it doesn't. Although the suggestions on my web page
for dealing with the spacing remain valid, the reasons don't
so I will have to re-address that over the weekend

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org




Beth Melton wrote:
Have you actually tried this in Word 2007 and *mail merge*
labels, Graham??
Regular labels are fine and they automatically use no spacing
with no need to modify the defaults. It's when using mail
merge this occurs. As soon as you select Labels as the main
document type, space *before* each paragraph and single
space are added as direct formatting. The new defaults use
10 pts space after (not 12) and 1.15 lines between.
Additional Notes:
- When using Outlook 2007, Word is irrelevant since Outlook
no longer uses Winword.exe and does not use Normal.dotm.
- If you want to avoid the issues with table styles, and
other style nuances we experienced in past versions, then
you should modify the Document Defaults and leave the Normal
style unmodified. - The Normal template for Word 2007 is
always Norma.dotm - never Normal.dotx.

~Beth Melton

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
The normal template in Word 2007 will be normal.dotm (or
dotx) rather than normal.dot which was for earlier
versions, and suggests that you are editing the wrong file.
It is certainly possible to set the normal style to have no
space before or after and thus have labels which match.
Right click 'Normal' on the home tab. Choose 'Modify'.
Remove spacing from the paragraph formatting options. Check
the 'new documents based on this style' check box and when
you close out of Word (plus Outlook if running) , save the
normal template when prompted.



  #28  
Old October 4th, 2007, 07:13 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
Cosmo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 69
Default Labels-single spacing - how to make default Word 2007

Good response re MSloth thinking we should follow their piper.

Unfortunately, I am stuck in a campus environment using MSloth 2007, and
I am a true died-in-the-wool user of Corel WordPerfect---have been since
before they were known as WP.

cosmo

"Icemaiden" wrote:

Well, I changed my "normal" style to be single spaced a while ago so that
doesn't seem to be the solution and I don't use the address block for the
merges, I put in each separate field. So what I'm hearing, is there is no
way to set the default label document to be single spaced?! I have an office
of 21 people that use Word merges with Access and I'd really like to be able
to tell them how to configure their software to work correctly.

Sometimes I really dislike Microsoft with their holier-than-thou decisions
on what they think people should use. Office 2007 is a prime example!

Thanks.

LT

"Doug Robbins - Word MVP" wrote:

Are you talking about line spacing or paragraph spacing. Possibly you have
the paragraph spacing in the Normal style set to have 12pts after it and
because the elements of the address are in separate paragraphs, they appear
to be double spaced.

You may also be using the addressblock which has each element of the address
in a separate paragraph. Instead of doing that, just insert the individual
merge fields into the label in the configuration that you want them,
separating each with a new line feed (Shift+Enter) rather than a carriage
return if you want to retain the space between paragraphs in your Normal
style.

--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

"Icemaiden" wrote in message
...
I've set my default template/document in Word 2007 to single space for all
new documents. However, this doesn't seem to hold true when trying to do
a
mail merge with labels??!!?? I can't seem to find a way to change the
default label document - if there is such an animal.... I want all my
documents to be single spaced - labels, envelopes, letters etc. - I want
it
to be the default (don't want to manually change each and every document I
create). If I choose to change to a different paragraph style, I will! I
don't want MS to choose for me.

Help!?!?!
Thanks. :-)
LT




  #29  
Old October 4th, 2007, 07:16 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
Cosmo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 69
Default Labels-single spacing - how to make default Word 2007

IF YOU DON'T LIKE PROVIDING COURTEOUS SERVICE TO THE NUMEROUS QUESTIONS
ASKED, LOOK FOR ANOTHER JOB.

If my business found out an employee was treating a customer in the inane
fashion you did by telling them to use another product, that employee would
be terminated for cause, and immediately escorted out by security forces.

Having a bad day? Don't come to work and take it out on the valued customer
that used/purchased your MSloth products.

Indeed, have you no shame?


Cosmo



"Graham Mayor" wrote:

It is nothing to do with single spacing, but with inter-paragarph spacing.
The default setting for normal style (used for labels) is to have 12 points
of space after each paragraph and it is that that appears to show the double
spacing on the labels (the address lines each being a paragraph).

It seems odd that Microsoft swapped Normal style and the No spaced stype
while leaving normal as the default style for labels. They would have been
better creating a normal spaced style and left normal unspaced as in
previous versions. You can make these changes if you wish as long as you
remember to save them in normal.dot.

If you don't like Microsoft products there are alternatives you can buy.

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org


Icemaiden wrote:
Well, I changed my "normal" style to be single spaced a while ago so
that doesn't seem to be the solution and I don't use the address
block for the merges, I put in each separate field. So what I'm
hearing, is there is no way to set the default label document to be
single spaced?! I have an office of 21 people that use Word merges
with Access and I'd really like to be able to tell them how to
configure their software to work correctly.

Sometimes I really dislike Microsoft with their holier-than-thou
decisions on what they think people should use. Office 2007 is a
prime example!

Thanks.

LT

"Doug Robbins - Word MVP" wrote:

Are you talking about line spacing or paragraph spacing. Possibly
you have the paragraph spacing in the Normal style set to have 12pts
after it and because the elements of the address are in separate
paragraphs, they appear to be double spaced.

You may also be using the addressblock which has each element of the
address in a separate paragraph. Instead of doing that, just insert
the individual merge fields into the label in the configuration that
you want them, separating each with a new line feed (Shift+Enter)
rather than a carriage return if you want to retain the space
between paragraphs in your Normal style.

--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

"Icemaiden" wrote in message
...
I've set my default template/document in Word 2007 to single space
for all new documents. However, this doesn't seem to hold true
when trying to do a
mail merge with labels??!!?? I can't seem to find a way to change
the default label document - if there is such an animal.... I want
all my documents to be single spaced - labels, envelopes, letters
etc. - I want it
to be the default (don't want to manually change each and every
document I create). If I choose to change to a different paragraph
style, I will! I don't want MS to choose for me.

Help!?!?!
Thanks. :-)
LT




  #30  
Old October 4th, 2007, 11:03 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
Suzanne S. Barnhill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 31,786
Default Labels-single spacing - how to make default Word 2007

Please note that Graham is not a Microsoft employee. We are all volunteers
here. I see nothing discourteous in Graham's reply, which was actually quite
informative.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"COSMO" wrote in message
...
IF YOU DON'T LIKE PROVIDING COURTEOUS SERVICE TO THE NUMEROUS QUESTIONS
ASKED, LOOK FOR ANOTHER JOB.

If my business found out an employee was treating a customer in the inane
fashion you did by telling them to use another product, that employee

would
be terminated for cause, and immediately escorted out by security forces.

Having a bad day? Don't come to work and take it out on the valued

customer
that used/purchased your MSloth products.

Indeed, have you no shame?


Cosmo



"Graham Mayor" wrote:

It is nothing to do with single spacing, but with inter-paragarph

spacing.
The default setting for normal style (used for labels) is to have 12

points
of space after each paragraph and it is that that appears to show the

double
spacing on the labels (the address lines each being a paragraph).

It seems odd that Microsoft swapped Normal style and the No spaced stype
while leaving normal as the default style for labels. They would have

been
better creating a normal spaced style and left normal unspaced as in
previous versions. You can make these changes if you wish as long as you
remember to save them in normal.dot.

If you don't like Microsoft products there are alternatives you can buy.

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org


Icemaiden wrote:
Well, I changed my "normal" style to be single spaced a while ago so
that doesn't seem to be the solution and I don't use the address
block for the merges, I put in each separate field. So what I'm
hearing, is there is no way to set the default label document to be
single spaced?! I have an office of 21 people that use Word merges
with Access and I'd really like to be able to tell them how to
configure their software to work correctly.

Sometimes I really dislike Microsoft with their holier-than-thou
decisions on what they think people should use. Office 2007 is a
prime example!

Thanks.

LT

"Doug Robbins - Word MVP" wrote:

Are you talking about line spacing or paragraph spacing. Possibly
you have the paragraph spacing in the Normal style set to have 12pts
after it and because the elements of the address are in separate
paragraphs, they appear to be double spaced.

You may also be using the addressblock which has each element of the
address in a separate paragraph. Instead of doing that, just insert
the individual merge fields into the label in the configuration that
you want them, separating each with a new line feed (Shift+Enter)
rather than a carriage return if you want to retain the space
between paragraphs in your Normal style.

--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

"Icemaiden" wrote in message
...
I've set my default template/document in Word 2007 to single space
for all new documents. However, this doesn't seem to hold true
when trying to do a
mail merge with labels??!!?? I can't seem to find a way to change
the default label document - if there is such an animal.... I want
all my documents to be single spaced - labels, envelopes, letters
etc. - I want it
to be the default (don't want to manually change each and every
document I create). If I choose to change to a different paragraph
style, I will! I don't want MS to choose for me.

Help!?!?!
Thanks. :-)
LT





 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 OfficeFrustration.
The comments are property of their posters.