Multidimensional Forms/Tables

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Offer
Particularly note 2b!!
1.. To present for acceptance or rejection; proffer: offered me a drink.
2.. a) To put forward for consideration; propose: offer an opinion.
b) To present in order to meet a need or satisfy a requirement

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Help

1.
a) The act or an instance of helping.
b) Aid or assistance.
2. Relief; remedy.

You have completely lost touch with what the newsgroups' core purpose really
is.!!

In the time you have spent dogging me you could have used your
Access/database knowledge to help a multitude of Access users with problems
who came to the newsgroups seeking help solving their problems. This is one
of the reasons 1000 Access users came to me in the past four years willing
to pay me for help with their problems. You don't get it!! You have left
your emotion take over just like in your previous response where you called
me an idiot. In the past you condemned Arno R for his tactics and now you
have become just the same. Respect for you is quickly fading!

Steve



"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
1. Your intelligence level is peeking out
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=advertise
2.-6. Your attempt to redefine netiquette.

--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--
Microsoft Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote:

1. "Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help
with this. My fees are very reasonable" IS NOT advertising!

2. 11 requests for fee based help since I posted #1 to Sharan in this
thread on 10/7

3. 1000 completed requests for fee based help in the last four years

4. I judiciously only make an offer of fee-based help where it appears
highly unlikely that a poster will get a solution to his post or where it
appears highly unlikely that the poster will be able to get a solution to
his post on his own.

5. Ten fold responses of free advice/support

6. 2 & 3 are clearly in the spirit of the newsgroups to provide a
resource
for Access users to find solutions to their problems

If it will ease your mind, I will put in the subject "Offer of fee-based
help"

Steve

Duane,

I give you credit here for a professionally written debate and the fact that
you were not condescending. Now accept my rebuttal in the spirit of a
rebuttal rather than a personal attack against you.

Your argument doesn't hold water! For four years I have been posting my
offer for help and you have not seen any sign of your doomsday prediction
that the newsgroups would collapse. You criticize me for making offers to
help other Access users but consider the following statistics for the
following newsgroups:
comp.databases.microsoft-access
microsoft.public.access.formscoding
microsoft.public.access.gettingstarted
microsoft.public.access.modulesDAOVBA
microsoft.public.access.queries
microsoft.public.access.reports
microsoft.public.access.tablesDBDesign
In the months of July through September, there were 67 posts to these
newsgroups that were pure spam. Posts to the wrong newsgroup were not
counted; for example, Excel, Word and Outlook questions posted to these
newsgroups were not counted. None of the 67 spam posts were related to
Access in any way. This was three times as many posts I made offering
fee-based help. You follow all these newsgroups and I did not see where once
you responded to any of them about advertising or the Rules Of Conduct for
the newsgroups. You need to stop dogging me and start dogging all these
others who can really harm the newsgroups. Untethered, these spam posts can
take over the newsgroups.

What has actually happened is that the number of Access users who have come
to me for help and are willing to pay me a fee for the help has steadily
increased over the past four years. I have now completed 1000 requests for
help. You stated there are a lot of contract programmers out in the world
that would be more than happy to get free advertising by just fishing in the
NGs. Just to clarify, I offer fee-based help. I do not advertise in the body
of my posts. There is a difference between offering fee-based help and pure
advertising. There are reasons why the contract programmers you mention
don't make offers for fee-based help like I do.
1. Ethically, an offer for fee-based help should not be made to every
poster. It takes time and patience to judiciously determine which posters
most likely have a need to pay a fee for help. I only offer fee-based help
where it appears the poster will most likely not get the help he needs from
the newsgroup or where it appears that most likely the poster will not be
able to solve his problem on his own.
2. Making offers of fee-based help carries the obligation to also give free
advice/support in the newsgroups. This takes significant time. I give
tenfold free advice/support in the newsgroups.
3. Contract programmers bill at a high fee per hour. One recent user who
came to me for fee-based help said several MVPs from the newsgroups
contacted him and their fees were three to five times higher than mine.
4. Contract programmers bill at an hourly rate an are very reluctant to
deviate from it. I do all my work for a fixed fee so that the customer knows
from the beginning what his total cost will be.

You made the statement that people reading through the newsgroups glance
through my offers for fee-based help and consequently I waste lots of
peoples' time. The following was taken from a single thread in a newsgroup.
The posts were all made by MVPs.

Did remember to put the trash out last night.

That reminds me, have to put mine out tonight. Dunno if the bin men will
come though, unless
they have studded tyres on :-)

Is that the latest fashion for bin men in your area? I'd think that a
rather odd article of clothing. Studded collars and armbands, maybe, but
tyres?

Well some of them are a bit portly so they have a spare :-)

Damn, I'm glad you did that instead of me.

Cleaned baby fish shoeboxes this morning.

????

I was puzzled too. Apparently these are for baby fish to live in your
aquarium until
they are large enough that the adult fish won't eat them. Well much. They
are a
clear plexiglass contaner with a lid and small enough holes that the water
can
circulate but the baby fish can't get out.

I was thinking: baby fish don't wear shoes, why would they need shoeboxes?

baby fish don't wear shoes

How do you know? They might just slip into a pair when you're not looking
;-)

I was thinking: baby fish don't wear shoes, why would they need shoeboxes?

I've often seen an old boot at the bottom of a fish tank.

It was entertaining to watch all the sponsored links change to Aquarium
products.

Yes, that is correct. My shoes use Google. So do my boots, my sneakers, my
insoles, my dress shoes, my socks and all fashion accessories related to my
feet.

That's 15 posts a reader would have had to read through!!! One of the
previous posters said it takes 15-20 seconds for a post to load, and to read
it. That is 20 seconds of our lives that we'll never get back. Well all the
readers of the above 15 posts wasted 5 minutes of their lives that they'll
never get back.

I am not against levity! But there are points to be made he
1. What is in line with the intent of the newsgroups; an offer of help with
an Access related problem or the meaningless drivel above?
2. The above type of drivel occurs regularly in the newsgroups. Why have
you never responded to any of these occurences if you are so concerned about
users wasting time?
3. Consider for a moment what would happen if the occurences of this type
of drivel escalated to every other post. Can you understand what these NGs
might become?
4. Is it your contention that an offer of help with an Access related
problem is not within generally accepted standards but the above type of
drivel is?

The Rules Of Conduct say "Please make sure that your postings in discussion
groups and chats are relevant to the subject at hand."

The general population of newsgroup readers don't start or participate in
this type of drivel. Why? Because they understand. They don't feel that they
are "special" or "exceptions" to the generally accepted standards.
The above MVPs apparently assume they are in the 0.1% or less who do not
have to abide by the generally accepted standards.

This is the end of my rebuttal!

And now I want to digress.
The Rules Of Conduct state, "Please avoid personal attacks, slurs, and
profanity in your interactions." Your crusade of dogging all my posts to the
newsgroups have become akin to the conduct of Arno R. Your counterposts to
my posts are personal attacks against me and have become filled with slurs
against me. Your conduct is clearly in violation of the Rules Of Conduct. My
respect for you has been severly eroded but because there is still some, I
am asking here that you cease. Duane, don't force me to have to post a
general formal complaint against you like I had to do with Arno R. Whatever
you may think, in the end, Arno R was the loser. You have a longstanding
fine reputation; let's both keep it that way.

Respectfully,

Steve




"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
Assume for a minute that advertising such as yours was allowed in news
groups and other public forums where users go for free support. Imagine
one reply after another with nothing more than:

============================================
Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help with
this. My fees are very reasonable.

--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
============================================

Can you understand what these NGs might become? There are a lot of
contract programmers out in the world that would be more than happy to get
free advertising by just fishing in the NGs. I know some very
knowledgeable developers that provide free support in these groups who
would like free advertising.

The important thing to note is that 99.9% or more of the contract
programmers don't do this. Why? Because they understand. They don't feel
that they are "special" or "exceptions" to the generally accepted
standards. You, Steve, apparently assume you are one of the 0.1% or less
who will not abide by the generally accepted standards.

Someone already posted a comment on the fact that as people search for
public, free answers, they must at least glance through your ads. You are
wasting lots of peoples' time.

Regarding your question about the % of people who get sufficient solutions
from NG responses, I don't have a clue. Maybe MS has some study
information but I am not aware of it. Not all OPs respond back with "this
has solved my problem". I know that 100% aren't resolved but also know
that those posters looking for additional assistance have lots of other
options. They aren't dumb and don't need to be hit with blatant ads (see
above). They can read through quality responses and decide if they need
further assistance. I (and many others) have been emailed directly and
haven't hinted at consulting services in our posts or signatures.

Please just let the quality of your answers along with your signature
(this doesn't offend me much) be your advertisement.

--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--

"John Marshall, MVP" wrote in message
...
"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
I followed the suggestion of a MVP some time ago and try to always make
it clear in my offers that it is fee-based.

The suggestion was not an endorsement of your activities, just that if
you were going to ignore the spirit of these newsgroups, that the users
deserved a warning.

John... Visio MVP

I don't care what other words mean. Why do you dodge the meaning of
advertise? That was the object of our discussion pertaining to #1.

How could I have lost touch with newsgroups' core purpose? My emotion took
over once when you took a comment from Ken Snell way out of context. I
called you an idiot or something for which I apologized. Your "actions"
deserved to be called stupid and/or idiotic but not necessarily your person
as a whole.

Just because your advertising works doesn't mean it isn't advertising.

I believe there is no hope for you. You continually offer tangential
statements that aren't relative to the current point (that you use public
newsgroups to advertise). You are too proud or poor or stubborn to admit
that:
1) what you are doing is advertising in public newsgroups
2) netiquette suggests that advertising in public newsgroups is not
acceptable

--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
ink.net...
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Offer
Particularly note 2b!!
1.. To present for acceptance or rejection; proffer: offered me a drink.
2.. a) To put forward for consideration; propose: offer an opinion.
b) To present in order to meet a need or satisfy a requirement

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Help

1.
a) The act or an instance of helping.
b) Aid or assistance.
2. Relief; remedy.

You have completely lost touch with what the newsgroups' core purpose
really is.!!

In the time you have spent dogging me you could have used your
Access/database knowledge to help a multitude of Access users with
problems who came to the newsgroups seeking help solving their problems.
This is one of the reasons 1000 Access users came to me in the past four
years willing to pay me for help with their problems. You don't get it!!
You have left your emotion take over just like in your previous response
where you called me an idiot. In the past you condemned Arno R for his
tactics and now you have become just the same. Respect for you is quickly
fading!

Steve



"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
1. Your intelligence level is peeking out
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=advertise
2.-6. Your attempt to redefine netiquette.

--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--
Microsoft Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote:

1. "Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help
with this. My fees are very reasonable" IS NOT advertising!

2. 11 requests for fee based help since I posted #1 to Sharan in this
thread on 10/7

3. 1000 completed requests for fee based help in the last four years

4. I judiciously only make an offer of fee-based help where it appears
highly unlikely that a poster will get a solution to his post or where
it
appears highly unlikely that the poster will be able to get a solution
to
his post on his own.

5. Ten fold responses of free advice/support

6. 2 & 3 are clearly in the spirit of the newsgroups to provide a
resource
for Access users to find solutions to their problems

If it will ease your mind, I will put in the subject "Offer of fee-based
help"

Steve

Steve -

Interesting that you decided to take one of my posts out of context ... you
know as well as I that I responded to a poster who specifically asked for a
developer on a fee basis.

Guess I will stop being neutral on this entire issue....

--

Ken Snell
MS ACCESS MVP

"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...

"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...

I don't recall Ken's reply but I expect you are taking it out of context.
I could be wrong but I doubt it. Ken certainly did not reply as you did
fishing for work on a brand new thread.


Yep, took it out of context. I had replied to a poster who specifically was
seeking a developer to do paid work (a fee basis) on a project.

As I've noted elsethread to Steve, I now will cease being neutral on this
issue regarding his posts.

--

Ken Snell
MS ACCESS MVP

Ken,

My reference to your post was in no way meant to criticize you. If you are
feeling insulted in any way, I apologize. I only meant your post to be an
example. Prior to the suggestion that I specify in my posts that my offer of
help is fee-based, I used to post something like:
"Contact me at my email address below if you would like some help."
Your post read, "You can contact me via www.cadellsoftware.org and we can
discuss what you're
seeking to do."
Do you see any difference between how you worded your post and how I worded
my post? I was constantly admonished that my post is "advertising".

No harm was intended against you. Neutral is good!

Steve


"Ken Snell [MVP]" wrote in message
...
Steve -

Interesting that you decided to take one of my posts out of context ...
you know as well as I that I responded to a poster who specifically asked
for a developer on a fee basis.

Guess I will stop being neutral on this entire issue....

--

Ken Snell
MS ACCESS MVP

"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...

"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
link.net...
Ken,

My reference to your post was in no way meant to criticize you.

What you may have intended is so far from the reality of what you did that
there is no way to meaningfully compare the two issues.


If you are feeling insulted in any way, I apologize.

Feeling insulted? Hardly...

Feeling displeased at someone misrepresenting my comments in an apparently
frantic effort to defend one's actions... Yes. You had no right to use me in
your arguments unless you'd gotten my permission to do so .. especially in
this particular context.


I only meant your post to be an example.

Of what..... your debating skills? It surely wasn't an example of your
practices being done by me.


No harm was intended against you.

Intent is a nice thing, but often is not reality.... you didn't succeed in
your intent.



Neutral is good!

You need to read my reply again... neutral is the past.... this is the
present. I am no longer neutral.
--

Ken Snell
MS ACCESS MVP

Duane,

Your first sentence speaks volumes about your letting your emotion rule your
thinking! That's exactly what I mean about you losing touch with newsgroups'
core purpose. The two words are OFFER and HELP. These two words go to the
heart of what the newsgroups are about and you are rejecting the concept.
OFFER is defined (from your own dictionary) as "To present in order to meet
a need or satisfy a requirement" and HELP is defined as "Relief; remedy (sic
solution to Access related problem)". When you say you don't care what these
words mean you are syaing you don't care whether the Access users who come
to the newsgroups to find solutions to their problems get a solution or not.
I present the Access users an alternative to getting a solution to their
Access related problem that they can accept or reject. It takes up a mere
line and a half. 1000 Access users have chosen this alternative and have
gotten a solution to their Access related problem.

Your emotion has taken over to such a degree that you have lost all
consistency in what you are saying. Here's a quote of what you said at the
beginning of this thread, "I would not have criticized you if this thread
was about 10 replies long and it was clear that the OP needed to find a
contractor." And in your current response you have turned one hundred and
eighty degrees and are carte blanc criticizing everything I do.
Additionally, in another place you said, "I personally would not mind if a
thread went on for "many days" and maybe
20+ posts and the OP just couldn't "get it" then to offer your "for charge"
services as long as you made it clear there would be a fee." Is it 10
replies or 20+ posts before you "allow" me to offer fee-based help? You're
certainly not being clear. Further,
your current response is inconsistent with another MVP's opinion. Doug
Steele said, "I will grant you that the words in Rules of Conduct for this
group, as posted at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/ga...RulesofConduct
can be interpretted, should you choose to, as letting you advertise: "We ask
that you refrain from posting advertisements or solicitations that do not
pertain directly to the intended use and purpose of the newsgroup or chat."
Your statement number 2 is contrary to what Doug says. Finally, you are
literally correct in your statement number 1 but totally in error in its
meaning. The newsgroups are full of advertising! There's all the following:
o MS Access MVP
o "See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs."
o "John Viescas, author
"Building Microsoft Access Applications" (Coming Soon!)
"Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out"
"Running Microsoft Access 2000"
"SQL Queries for Mere Mortals"
o David Lloyd
MCSD .NET
http://LemingtonConsulting.com
and the list goes on and on to where religious retreats are advertised by a
MVP who
frequently responds to the newsgroups. You see all of this advertising in
the newsgroups on a daily basis.

So you see that your arguments don't hold water and what you are saying does
not make sense.

Steve


"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
I don't care what other words mean. Why do you dodge the meaning of
advertise? That was the object of our discussion pertaining to #1.

How could I have lost touch with newsgroups' core purpose? My emotion took
over once when you took a comment from Ken Snell way out of context. I
called you an idiot or something for which I apologized. Your "actions"
deserved to be called stupid and/or idiotic but not necessarily your
person as a whole.

Just because your advertising works doesn't mean it isn't advertising.

I believe there is no hope for you. You continually offer tangential
statements that aren't relative to the current point (that you use public
newsgroups to advertise). You are too proud or poor or stubborn to admit
that:
1) what you are doing is advertising in public newsgroups
2) netiquette suggests that advertising in public newsgroups is not
acceptable

--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
ink.net...
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Offer
Particularly note 2b!!
1.. To present for acceptance or rejection; proffer: offered me a drink.
2.. a) To put forward for consideration; propose: offer an opinion.
b) To present in order to meet a need or satisfy a requirement

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Help

1.
a) The act or an instance of helping.
b) Aid or assistance.
2. Relief; remedy.

You have completely lost touch with what the newsgroups' core purpose
really is.!!

In the time you have spent dogging me you could have used your
Access/database knowledge to help a multitude of Access users with
problems who came to the newsgroups seeking help solving their problems.
This is one of the reasons 1000 Access users came to me in the past four
years willing to pay me for help with their problems. You don't get it!!
You have left your emotion take over just like in your previous response
where you called me an idiot. In the past you condemned Arno R for his
tactics and now you have become just the same. Respect for you is quickly
fading!

Steve



"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
1. Your intelligence level is peeking out
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=advertise
2.-6. Your attempt to redefine netiquette.

--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--
Microsoft Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote:

1. "Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside
help
with this. My fees are very reasonable" IS NOT advertising!

2. 11 requests for fee based help since I posted #1 to Sharan in this
thread on 10/7

3. 1000 completed requests for fee based help in the last four years

4. I judiciously only make an offer of fee-based help where it appears
highly unlikely that a poster will get a solution to his post or where
it
appears highly unlikely that the poster will be able to get a solution
to
his post on his own.

5. Ten fold responses of free advice/support

6. 2 & 3 are clearly in the spirit of the newsgroups to provide a
resource
for Access users to find solutions to their problems

If it will ease your mind, I will put in the subject "Offer of
fee-based
help"

Steve

Duane,

Your first sentence speaks volumes about your letting your emotion rule your
thinking! That's exactly what I mean about you losing touch with newsgroups'
core purpose. The two words are OFFER and HELP. These two words go to the
heart of what the newsgroups are about and you are rejecting the concept.
OFFER is defined (from your own dictionary) as "To present in order to meet
a need or satisfy a requirement" and HELP is defined as "Relief; remedy (sic
solution to Access related problem)". When you say you don't care what these
words mean you are syaing you don't care whether the Access users who come
to the newsgroups to find solutions to their problems get a solution or not.
I present the Access users an alternative to getting a solution to their
Access related problem that they can accept or reject. It takes up a mere
line and a half. 1000 Access users have chosen this alternative and have
gotten a solution to their Access
related problem.

Your emotion has taken over to such a degree that you have lost all
consistency in what you are saying. Here's a quote of what you said at the
beginning of this thread, "I would not have criticized you if this thread
was about 10 replies long and it was clear that the OP needed to find a
contractor." And in your current response you have turned one hundred and
eighty degrees and are carte blanc criticizing everything I do.
Additionally, in another place you said, "I personally would not mind if a
thread went on for "many days" and maybe
20+ posts and the OP just couldn't "get it" then to offer your "for charge"
services as long as you made it clear there would be a fee." Is it 10
replies or 20+ posts before you "allow" me to offer fee-based help? You're
certainly not being clear. Further,
your current response is inconsistent with another MVP's opinion. Doug
Steele said, "I will grant you that the words in Rules of Conduct for this
group, as posted at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/ga...RulesofConduct
can be interpretted, should you choose to, as letting you advertise: "We ask
that you refrain from posting advertisements or solicitations that do not
pertain directly to the intended use and purpose of the newsgroup or chat."
Your statement number 2 is contrary to what Doug says. Finally, you are
literally correct in your statement number 1 but totally in error in its
meaning. The newsgroups are full of advertising! There's all the following:
o MS Access MVP
o "See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs."
o "John Viescas, author
"Building Microsoft Access Applications" (Coming Soon!)
"Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out"
"Running Microsoft Access 2000"
"SQL Queries for Mere Mortals"
o David Lloyd
MCSD .NET
http://LemingtonConsulting.com
and the list goes on and on to where religious retreats are advertised by a
MVP who
frequently responds to the newsgroups. You see all of this advertising in
the newsgroups on a
daily basis.

So you see that your arguments don't hold water and what you are saying does
not make sense.

Steve


"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
I don't care what other words mean. Why do you dodge the meaning of
advertise? That was the object of our discussion pertaining to #1.

How could I have lost touch with newsgroups' core purpose? My emotion took
over once when you took a comment from Ken Snell way out of context. I
called you an idiot or something for which I apologized. Your "actions"
deserved to be called stupid and/or idiotic but not necessarily your
person as a whole.

Just because your advertising works doesn't mean it isn't advertising.

I believe there is no hope for you. You continually offer tangential
statements that aren't relative to the current point (that you use public
newsgroups to advertise). You are too proud or poor or stubborn to admit
that:
1) what you are doing is advertising in public newsgroups
2) netiquette suggests that advertising in public newsgroups is not
acceptable

--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
ink.net...
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Offer
Particularly note 2b!!
1.. To present for acceptance or rejection; proffer: offered me a drink.
2.. a) To put forward for consideration; propose: offer an opinion.
b) To present in order to meet a need or satisfy a requirement

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Help

1.
a) The act or an instance of helping.
b) Aid or assistance.
2. Relief; remedy.

You have completely lost touch with what the newsgroups' core purpose
really is.!!

In the time you have spent dogging me you could have used your
Access/database knowledge to help a multitude of Access users with
problems who came to the newsgroups seeking help solving their problems.
This is one of the reasons 1000 Access users came to me in the past four
years willing to pay me for help with their problems. You don't get it!!
You have left your emotion take over just like in your previous response
where you called me an idiot. In the past you condemned Arno R for his
tactics and now you have become just the same. Respect for you is quickly
fading!

Steve



"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
1. Your intelligence level is peeking out
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=advertise
2.-6. Your attempt to redefine netiquette.

--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--
Microsoft Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote:

1. "Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside
help
with this. My fees are very reasonable" IS NOT advertising!

2. 11 requests for fee based help since I posted #1 to Sharan in this
thread on 10/7

3. 1000 completed requests for fee based help in the last four years

4. I judiciously only make an offer of fee-based help where it appears
highly unlikely that a poster will get a solution to his post or where
it
appears highly unlikely that the poster will be able to get a solution
to
his post on his own.

5. Ten fold responses of free advice/support

6. 2 & 3 are clearly in the spirit of the newsgroups to provide a
resource
for Access users to find solutions to their problems

If it will ease your mind, I will put in the subject "Offer of
fee-based
help"

Steve

Duane,

Your first sentence speaks volumes about your letting your emotion rule your
thinking! That's exactly what I mean about you losing touch with newsgroups'
core purpose. The two words are OFFER and HELP. These two words go to the
heart of what the newsgroups are about and you are rejecting the concept.
OFFER is defined (from your own dictionary) as "To present in order to meet
a need or satisfy a requirement" and HELP is defined as "Relief; remedy (sic
solution to Access related problem)". When you say you don't care what these
words mean you are syaing you don't care whether the Access users who come
to the newsgroups to find solutions to their problems get a solution or not.
I present the Access users an alternative to getting a solution to their
Access related problem that they can accept or reject. It takes up a mere
line and a half. 1000 Access users have chosen this alternative and have
gotten a solution to their Access
related problem.

Your emotion has taken over to such a degree that you have lost all
consistency in what you are saying. Here's a quote of what you said at the
beginning of this thread, "I would not have criticized you if this thread
was about 10 replies long and it was clear that the OP needed to find a
contractor." And in your current response you have turned one hundred and
eighty degrees and are carte blanc criticizing everything I do.
Additionally, in another place you said, "I personally would not mind if a
thread went on for "many days" and maybe
20+ posts and the OP just couldn't "get it" then to offer your "for charge"
services as long as you made it clear there would be a fee." Is it 10
replies or 20+ posts before you "allow" me to offer fee-based help? You're
certainly not being clear. Further,
your current response is inconsistent with another MVP's opinion. Doug
Steele said, "I will grant you that the words in Rules of Conduct for this
group, as posted at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/ga...RulesofConduct
can be interpretted, should you choose to, as letting you advertise: "We ask
that you refrain from posting advertisements or solicitations that do not
pertain directly to the intended use and purpose of the newsgroup or chat."
Your statement number 2 is contrary to what Doug says. Finally, you are
literally correct in your statement number 1 but totally in error in its
meaning. The newsgroups are full of advertising! There's all the following:
o MS Access MVP
o "See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs."
o "John Viescas, author
"Building Microsoft Access Applications" (Coming Soon!)
"Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out"
"Running Microsoft Access 2000"
"SQL Queries for Mere Mortals"
o David Lloyd
MCSD .NET
http://LemingtonConsulting.com
and the list goes on and on to where religious retreats are advertised by a
MVP who
frequently responds to the newsgroups. You see all of this advertising in
the newsgroups on a
daily basis.

So you see that your arguments don't hold water and what you are saying does
not make sense.

Steve


"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
I don't care what other words mean. Why do you dodge the meaning of
advertise? That was the object of our discussion pertaining to #1.

How could I have lost touch with newsgroups' core purpose? My emotion took
over once when you took a comment from Ken Snell way out of context. I
called you an idiot or something for which I apologized. Your "actions"
deserved to be called stupid and/or idiotic but not necessarily your
person as a whole.

Just because your advertising works doesn't mean it isn't advertising.

I believe there is no hope for you. You continually offer tangential
statements that aren't relative to the current point (that you use public
newsgroups to advertise). You are too proud or poor or stubborn to admit
that:
1) what you are doing is advertising in public newsgroups
2) netiquette suggests that advertising in public newsgroups is not
acceptable

--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote in message
ink.net...
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Offer
Particularly note 2b!!
1.. To present for acceptance or rejection; proffer: offered me a drink.
2.. a) To put forward for consideration; propose: offer an opinion.
b) To present in order to meet a need or satisfy a requirement

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Help

1.
a) The act or an instance of helping.
b) Aid or assistance.
2. Relief; remedy.

You have completely lost touch with what the newsgroups' core purpose
really is.!!

In the time you have spent dogging me you could have used your
Access/database knowledge to help a multitude of Access users with
problems who came to the newsgroups seeking help solving their problems.
This is one of the reasons 1000 Access users came to me in the past four
years willing to pay me for help with their problems. You don't get it!!
You have left your emotion take over just like in your previous response
where you called me an idiot. In the past you condemned Arno R for his
tactics and now you have become just the same. Respect for you is quickly
fading!

Steve



"Duane Hookom" wrote in message
...
1. Your intelligence level is peeking out
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=advertise
2.-6. Your attempt to redefine netiquette.

--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--
Microsoft Access MVP


"PC Datasheet" wrote:

1. "Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside
help
with this. My fees are very reasonable" IS NOT advertising!

2. 11 requests for fee based help since I posted #1 to Sharan in this
thread on 10/7

3. 1000 completed requests for fee based help in the last four years

4. I judiciously only make an offer of fee-based help where it appears
highly unlikely that a poster will get a solution to his post or where
it
appears highly unlikely that the poster will be able to get a solution
to
his post on his own.

5. Ten fold responses of free advice/support

6. 2 & 3 are clearly in the spirit of the newsgroups to provide a
resource
for Access users to find solutions to their problems

If it will ease your mind, I will put in the subject "Offer of
fee-based
help"

Steve