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Setting up tables for grades



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 23rd, 2010, 01:25 PM posted to microsoft.public.access.forms
Gntlhnds
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 97
Default Setting up tables for grades

I do not understand why I am not understanding this, but I am trying to set
up a form for inputing student grades. There are 13 classes that I need to
track grades for (currently) as well as a composite grade. I have a table
(tblStudents) with the student information (including [StudentID]), a table
(tblCourses) with course names(two fields, one [CourseID], the other
[Course]), and a table (tblCourseGrades) to keep track of the grades
([GradeID], [StudentID], [CourseID], [Grade]). I'm thinking I'm
understanding relational design and I have the table set-up correct, but
designing the form for inputing the grades I'm just not getting for some
reason or another. I have a combo box that selects the student, and then a
subform (datasheet view) with tblCourseGrades as its source. This is not
working. The subform only shows one blank row. Any help to straighten out
my understanding would be appreciated. I've tried reading various tutorials
on relational design and normalizing, but there is something that I'm just
not getting. Thanks in advance.
  #2  
Old April 23rd, 2010, 03:04 PM posted to microsoft.public.access.forms
Daryl S[_2_]
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Posts: 881
Default Setting up tables for grades

Gntlhnds -

Have you assigned the students to the courses? That is, have you populated
the tblCourseGrades table with all the combinations of studentID and CourseID
that make sense? I don't know if this is like an elementary school where
all students in each grade (say 3rd grade) take the same courses (reading,
writing, and arithmetic), or like in college where every student may have a
unique combination of courses.

I don't see the concept of class versus course - this would be the
difference between the course (English 101) and the classes (English 101
taught MWF in Room 12 at 9:00 versus English 101 taught MWF in Room 23 at
10:00, including which semester or quarter they are taught). You didn't
provide details on your requirements, so I don't know if that needs to happen.

In any case, a student must be assigned to a class before they can get a
grade in the class. If you need more help, please provide more information...

--
Daryl S


"Gntlhnds" wrote:

I do not understand why I am not understanding this, but I am trying to set
up a form for inputing student grades. There are 13 classes that I need to
track grades for (currently) as well as a composite grade. I have a table
(tblStudents) with the student information (including [StudentID]), a table
(tblCourses) with course names(two fields, one [CourseID], the other
[Course]), and a table (tblCourseGrades) to keep track of the grades
([GradeID], [StudentID], [CourseID], [Grade]). I'm thinking I'm
understanding relational design and I have the table set-up correct, but
designing the form for inputing the grades I'm just not getting for some
reason or another. I have a combo box that selects the student, and then a
subform (datasheet view) with tblCourseGrades as its source. This is not
working. The subform only shows one blank row. Any help to straighten out
my understanding would be appreciated. I've tried reading various tutorials
on relational design and normalizing, but there is something that I'm just
not getting. Thanks in advance.

  #3  
Old April 23rd, 2010, 03:48 PM posted to microsoft.public.access.forms
Gntlhnds
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 97
Default Setting up tables for grades

Thanks for the response. The best way to describe my situation would be like
an elementary school, where each class takes the same courses at the same
time. And, no, my tblCourseGrades is not populated with the courses and
students. I'm assuming I would use a query to do this, but how would I work
that? I have classes starting about every two weeks or so, and each class
takes the same courses, so I would need to frequently update that table. I
hope this is enough information. Thanks.
  #4  
Old April 23rd, 2010, 04:05 PM posted to microsoft.public.access.forms
KARL DEWEY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,767
Default Setting up tables for grades

I have a combo box that selects the student, and then a subform (datasheet
view) with tblCourseGrades as its source.
I would use a form to select [Class] and [CourseID]. If records did not
exist then run an append query to create the records. When exist display in
subform for grade entry using listbox. Include in choices something to
indicate missed evaluation.

tblStudents –
[StudentID]
[FName] -
[LName] -
[Class] -

tblCourses -–
[CourseID] -
[Course] –

tblCourseGrades –
[GradeID] –
[StudentID] –
[CourseID] –
[Grade] –
[Comment] -


--
Build a little, test a little.


"Gntlhnds" wrote:

I do not understand why I am not understanding this, but I am trying to set
up a form for inputing student grades. There are 13 classes that I need to
track grades for (currently) as well as a composite grade. I have a table
(tblStudents) with the student information (including [StudentID]), a table
(tblCourses) with course names(two fields, one [CourseID], the other
[Course]), and a table (tblCourseGrades) to keep track of the grades
([GradeID], [StudentID], [CourseID], [Grade]). I'm thinking I'm
understanding relational design and I have the table set-up correct, but
designing the form for inputing the grades I'm just not getting for some
reason or another. I have a combo box that selects the student, and then a
subform (datasheet view) with tblCourseGrades as its source. This is not
working. The subform only shows one blank row. Any help to straighten out
my understanding would be appreciated. I've tried reading various tutorials
on relational design and normalizing, but there is something that I'm just
not getting. Thanks in advance.

  #5  
Old April 23rd, 2010, 04:57 PM posted to microsoft.public.access.forms
John W. Vinson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,261
Default Setting up tables for grades

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 07:48:01 -0700, Gntlhnds
wrote:

Thanks for the response. The best way to describe my situation would be like
an elementary school, where each class takes the same courses at the same
time. And, no, my tblCourseGrades is not populated with the courses and
students. I'm assuming I would use a query to do this, but how would I work
that? I have classes starting about every two weeks or so, and each class
takes the same courses, so I would need to frequently update that table. I
hope this is enough information. Thanks.


A Query probably will be involved, but you would (I would guess!) need to pick
somebody's brain for the information that Alisia Gonzalez is assigned to the
Management Development class starting May 3. Normally one would do this using
a form and subform arrangement; this could be done in two ways - you could
have a form based on the table of students with a subform based on what I'd
call the "class enrollment" table, allowing you to pick whichever classes this
student needs. Alternatively (or in addition) you could have a form based on
the class table, with a subform allowing you to pick students from a combo box
to enter them into the enrollment table.
--

John W. Vinson [MVP]
  #6  
Old April 23rd, 2010, 05:51 PM posted to microsoft.public.access.forms
Gntlhnds
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 97
Default Setting up tables for grades

This is what I am trying to do. I have a form whose source is tblStudents
with a combo box that selects the student. I then have a subform whose
source is tblCourseGrades as a datasheet. I have two field, Course and
Grade. Course is a combo box with tblCourses as it's source to select the
Course. This is not working for me, though. Becasue tblCourseGrade does not
have a Course field, I have to have the combo box unbound, which does not
work. If anyone has any idea as to how I should properly setup this subform,
I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

"John W. Vinson" wrote:

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 07:48:01 -0700, Gntlhnds
wrote:

Thanks for the response. The best way to describe my situation would be like
an elementary school, where each class takes the same courses at the same
time. And, no, my tblCourseGrades is not populated with the courses and
students. I'm assuming I would use a query to do this, but how would I work
that? I have classes starting about every two weeks or so, and each class
takes the same courses, so I would need to frequently update that table. I
hope this is enough information. Thanks.


A Query probably will be involved, but you would (I would guess!) need to pick
somebody's brain for the information that Alisia Gonzalez is assigned to the
Management Development class starting May 3. Normally one would do this using
a form and subform arrangement; this could be done in two ways - you could
have a form based on the table of students with a subform based on what I'd
call the "class enrollment" table, allowing you to pick whichever classes this
student needs. Alternatively (or in addition) you could have a form based on
the class table, with a subform allowing you to pick students from a combo box
to enter them into the enrollment table.
--

John W. Vinson [MVP]
.

  #7  
Old April 23rd, 2010, 05:55 PM posted to microsoft.public.access.forms
Gntlhnds
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 97
Default Setting up tables for grades

Really what I would like is to have the subform list all of the courses with
the ability to add the grade once the student completes the course, then I
can create reports to output the grades either by student or class, including
a composite grade.

"Gntlhnds" wrote:

This is what I am trying to do. I have a form whose source is tblStudents
with a combo box that selects the student. I then have a subform whose
source is tblCourseGrades as a datasheet. I have two field, Course and
Grade. Course is a combo box with tblCourses as it's source to select the
Course. This is not working for me, though. Becasue tblCourseGrade does not
have a Course field, I have to have the combo box unbound, which does not
work. If anyone has any idea as to how I should properly setup this subform,
I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

"John W. Vinson" wrote:

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 07:48:01 -0700, Gntlhnds
wrote:

Thanks for the response. The best way to describe my situation would be like
an elementary school, where each class takes the same courses at the same
time. And, no, my tblCourseGrades is not populated with the courses and
students. I'm assuming I would use a query to do this, but how would I work
that? I have classes starting about every two weeks or so, and each class
takes the same courses, so I would need to frequently update that table. I
hope this is enough information. Thanks.


A Query probably will be involved, but you would (I would guess!) need to pick
somebody's brain for the information that Alisia Gonzalez is assigned to the
Management Development class starting May 3. Normally one would do this using
a form and subform arrangement; this could be done in two ways - you could
have a form based on the table of students with a subform based on what I'd
call the "class enrollment" table, allowing you to pick whichever classes this
student needs. Alternatively (or in addition) you could have a form based on
the class table, with a subform allowing you to pick students from a combo box
to enter them into the enrollment table.
--

John W. Vinson [MVP]
.

  #8  
Old April 23rd, 2010, 06:03 PM posted to microsoft.public.access.forms
John W. Vinson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,261
Default Setting up tables for grades

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 09:51:01 -0700, Gntlhnds
wrote:

This is what I am trying to do. I have a form whose source is tblStudents
with a combo box that selects the student. I then have a subform whose
source is tblCourseGrades as a datasheet. I have two field, Course and
Grade. Course is a combo box with tblCourses as it's source to select the
Course. This is not working for me, though. Becasue tblCourseGrade does not
have a Course field, I have to have the combo box unbound, which does not
work. If anyone has any idea as to how I should properly setup this subform,
I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.


Well... if you want to record the course grade for a student, you must - no
option, no choice - record SOMEWHERE what course the grade is for!!! Why
doesn't tblCourseGrade have a Course field? What is its structure?

The problem isn't your form. It's your table.
--

John W. Vinson [MVP]
  #9  
Old April 23rd, 2010, 06:05 PM posted to microsoft.public.access.forms
John W. Vinson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,261
Default Setting up tables for grades

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 09:55:01 -0700, Gntlhnds
wrote:

Really what I would like is to have the subform list all of the courses with
the ability to add the grade once the student completes the course, then I
can create reports to output the grades either by student or class, including
a composite grade.


Don't confuse data *DISPLAY* - a subform - with data *STORAGE* - a table.

Data is NOT stored in forms. It's stored in tables, and only in tables. You
can display multiple courses on the form if you like, but it sounds like
you're assuming that the grade is being put into the form. It's not; you're
using the form as a tool to put the grade (and the student ID and the course)
into a Table. You can then use queries and reports to pull the data back out
of that table in any form or combination you like.
--

John W. Vinson [MVP]
  #10  
Old April 23rd, 2010, 06:49 PM posted to microsoft.public.access.forms
Daryl S[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 881
Default Setting up tables for grades

Gntlhnds -

Like John said, you could use a query or a form to assign students to their
classes. If all students that come through your school take the same
courses, and in the same order, or they all start on the same day, and all
students take all 13 of your courses, then you can write a query to append
the records when the student is added. I worry that your design is not very
flexible, and that if something changes you will need to do a lot of rework.
Some things to consider (you can choose what you want to implement depending
on your business model):

1. You really offer two programs, some classes of students are in program A
that take courses a100, a200, a300, a400, and a500, while some classes of
strudents are in program B that take courses b100, b200, b300, b400, b500,
b600, b700, and b800. If this case, you need to create a programs table and
assign courses to the programs (maybe course a100 is given in both programs
because it is an introduction class). Then when you set up your student, you
assign them a program, and you can use a query to append the records for each
student based on the program.

2. Some students will take only some of the classes. You don't want to
show students in a class with no grades if they don't take the class. If
your classes are, say, 2 weeks each, and the program is supposed to last 26
weeks, then some students may drop out after week 10. In this case, you
don't want to assign all students to all courses up front. Maybe all 13
courses are taught in 1/2-hour blocks every day, so all students really do
start all classes. Then you would assign them all up front...

3. I really think you will want some dates in your tables. If the courses
are taken sequentially, then you may want to include the course start date in
your tblCourseGrades (which I am thinking is more like a tblCourseEnrollment,
one attribute of which would be the final grade). A completion date would be
good unless that can always be determined from the start date (e.g. your
programs always take 6 weeks to complete).

Anyway, if you just want to add all courses for each new student with your
current structure, then you could add a button on the form you use to add a
student, and clicking the button could run a query like this (use your form
and control name to get the current StudentID from the form):

INSERT INTO tblCourseGrades(CourseID, StudentID)
SELECT CourseID, Forms!StudentForm!txtStudentID
FROM tblCourses;

If you can provide more details, we can provide more help...

--
Daryl S


"John W. Vinson" wrote:

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 07:48:01 -0700, Gntlhnds
wrote:

Thanks for the response. The best way to describe my situation would be like
an elementary school, where each class takes the same courses at the same
time. And, no, my tblCourseGrades is not populated with the courses and
students. I'm assuming I would use a query to do this, but how would I work
that? I have classes starting about every two weeks or so, and each class
takes the same courses, so I would need to frequently update that table. I
hope this is enough information. Thanks.


A Query probably will be involved, but you would (I would guess!) need to pick
somebody's brain for the information that Alisia Gonzalez is assigned to the
Management Development class starting May 3. Normally one would do this using
a form and subform arrangement; this could be done in two ways - you could
have a form based on the table of students with a subform based on what I'd
call the "class enrollment" table, allowing you to pick whichever classes this
student needs. Alternatively (or in addition) you could have a form based on
the class table, with a subform allowing you to pick students from a combo box
to enter them into the enrollment table.
--

John W. Vinson [MVP]
.

 




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