Worse software of 2006

Well now, that becomes a problem as well. After all, the pencil and paper
had their own issues. Take, for example, the problems involved with
excessive angular force on the pencil tip. This can just bring the whole
application to a halt...especially if you're missing the "pencil sharpener"
add-on. Then there's the bug of multiple deletions of the same record,
which can completely destroy that section of the paper, typically resulting
in an unusable medium which must be re-copied from scratch (possibly leading
to a recursive problem). Not to mention the vast array of pencil versions
out there, many of which are entirely unsuitable for the uses to which the
user wishes to put them - e.g., using a fine arts pencil for writing
purposes.

While I'm sure I could come up with a number of other issues besides, as you
can see, software and hardware limitations pre-date MS, and no solution is
without its share of problems.

That said, I agree with the general concept that MS has been moving away
from what most customers want, particularly the programming professional,
and dumbing down & prettying up a lot of their mainstream software (like
Vista and Office 2007), possibly in an attempt to be more like the Mac (oh
dear!). The departure of VB.NET from traditional VB is another example of
this sort of plugging their ears and going "la la la la la" when programming
professionals complain (while simultaneously listening intently to C
programmers and providing them with a transition venue that they chose not
to provide VB programmers with).

Overall, I'm very unimpressed at the general trend, and sincerely hope they
smarten up in the future. I don't want software that works only the way
THEY want it to, I want software that works the way *I* want it to, and is
flexible enough to also work the way SOMEONE ELSE wants it to as well.



Rob

"Kirk" wrote in message
...
I'm really tired of hearing people **** and moan about MS did this and MS
did that and screwed this up and screwed that up. If you don't like using
a particular Windows product, that's fine, but keep your ****ing and
moaning to yourselves. Sure there are limitations and glitches and
issues, but so what? If you can't figure out how to work around them,
then maybe you should go back to pencil and paper.

"Dave Onex" wrote in message
...
I'd have to agree with the gist of the original poster. We've seen
nothing
but problems with the directions Microsoft has taken. It seems Microsoft
forgot the lessons they learned from Microsoft Bob - which was not to
mess
with the user interface. It was a hard lesson for them to learn at the
time - but the knowledge gained from that seems to have disappeared. When
doing support for people I have to ask them which interface they are
using
on XP - something most of them can't answer. This is a small example of
the
support mess that forgotten lesson has created.

With Windows NT 4.0 Microsoft learned another valuable lesson - never
include new software with a service pack. This lesson was also forgotten
with XP. Service Pack 2 for XP caused a lot of problems for us and for
the
record - there's more fixes, patches and updates for XP then in any
previous
Microsoft O/S we've rolled out.

I'm not a fan of XP - instead I see Windows 2000 as the most mature and
stable O/S they ever made. It represents the culmination of the lessons
learned above - plus considerably more - all in one package. And it's
stable - more stable then XP and that's been proven to us again and
again.
XP has some nicer features but the question for us is are the features
more
valuable then a reliable O/S?

In almost every companies history past mistakes are made again and the
net
result (at some point) is an effort to re-focus on their previous core
strengths. I see XP as the start of deviating from the path and Vista as
(hopefully) the final step. Ideally Microsoft will realize this at some
point and get back to the kind of thinking that went into Windows 2000.

Either way, the nice thing about living in today's world is that we don't
have to use a useless web browser like IE 7 and we don't have to be
pre-programmed into thinking that Vista is the latest and greatest. The
mistakes Microsoft is making today should go a long way to re-enforcing
that
'new' train of thought and opening people's eyes to the fact that the
latest
is not always the greatest. I see that more & more Microsoft is trying to
force us into staying Microsoft and that the further along we go - the
harder it will be to leave.

I've never been a fan of a 'new' O/S just because it was new. I started
with
Windows for Workgroups and OS/2 and worked closely with all Microsoft
O/S's
since. I was with them through the Windows NT 3.x series as well as NT
4.0.
I saw the mistakes made over the years and I saw the lessons firmly
learned
at Microsoft. Remember the mantra - "Eat your own dog food?" I do. I also
remember being down in Redmond for OEM meetings and seeing this
philosophy
in action.

Those were the days when mistakes were corrected - fast! Lessons (as
above)
were learned and taken to heart. I remember when Microsoft was holding a
well-deserved barbeque at Netscape! IE was a better browser but IE 7 sure
isn't. IE 7 is a reactionary product developed to try and stave off
Firefox's increasing market share - nothing more - and a botched attempt
at
that. What impresses me most about Firefox is it's small size.....

Microsoft's changed - and not for the better. We're back to release a
product and correct/complete development after people have paid for it
and
installed it. Nice. I went through that with NT 4.0, Proxy 1.0 (among
others) and am not interested in going that route with XP or with Vista.

This recurring revenue stream that Microsoft is after stopped for us at
Windows 2000. All my servers run Windows 2000 and very few workstations
run
XP. If Microsoft persists in ignoring/re-learning lessons from the past
then
I will continue to vote with our pocketbook and look more closely at
Linux.
I never wanted to go the Linux route but the more I hear about where
Microsoft is going (coupled with what I've seen over the last few years)
the
more I feel that it's inevitable. Recently I had to speak to someone in
India to try and get approval for a valid XP installation and it was
quickly
apparent that I had to prove to them that the O/S was legit and that they
had the authority to declare my legal store-bought product invalid. That
was
not a pleasant experience and while I can understand the theft angle I
also
don't want to be assumed guilty until proven innocent. This has a direct
impact on decisions I make.

I'd prefer to stay with MS but the path they've chosen is actually what's
pushing me to Linux. It's less a question of dollars then it is of
dealing
with inferior & bloated software and having to pay for the same year
after
year.

My fear is that it is only a matter of time before we go Linux. I don't
want
to learn something new as I've got my hands full with what's on my plate
but
I think it's inevitable.

I've mentioned flaws in ISA 2004 for some time now but it seems that all
the
effort is being concentrated on ISA 2006. This illustrates another
example
that I find reprehensible. Am I now forced to pay my way into ISA 2006
just
to get support that should have been included in the cost of ISA 2004?
And
just for the record, that flaw came out of new functionality added
through
means of a Service Pack. Remember the forgotten lesson I explained above?
There's another example of it in action.

Our/my interest is not in paying Microsoft an annual fee. Instead I'd
like
to see Microsoft actually complete the development of the products that
we
originally purchased before trying to get new money from us for something
that's 'new' and 'better'.

Best!
Marvin Miller




"Phil Mongelluzzo, Sr." wrote in message
...
Buy a iMac and wander around in the maze of the unknown.

"Red nosed reindeer" - wrote in message
...
Microsoft has blundered big time. I think that the company will suffer
greatly with
this new product line. Bad concepts and design of these programs will
plague them for years.

The ultimate winner: Windows Vista. And you think nothing could be
worse
than windows ME!
Reason: Every aspect of this OS is horrible. From its looks, to all
the
changes they made,to the things they should have done but didn't, they
took XP and twisted it into a monstrosity.

Worse browser: IE7 wins this title hands down. Its non customizable
interface with
bad design, its poorly implemented tabs, and the multitude of bugs
makes
this software of beta quality and never should have been released.

Worse Office suite: Office 2007 because of its huge bloat, and the
ribbon
(the new toolbar), which will go down in history as the stupidest
interface ever implemented in an office program.

Worse Media player: WMP11. Because it is damn ugly and failed to add
the
things people really needed.

Worse email client: Windows live mail desktop, because the design
follows
the
same concepts of vista, again they took outlook express... and made a
monster out of it.

Having said all that, I have to say that there is one stand alone MS
product that is good,
IF you tweak it and customize it. Live messenger 8

The bright side to all this, is that the failures of the above
software
will open up the doors to new
developers, to make new innovative applications that will provide
service
and joy to humanity in 2007.

Edited in line;

"Kirk" wrote in message
...
I'm really tired of hearing people **** and moan about MS did this and MS
did that and screwed this up and screwed that up. If you don't like using
a
particular Windows product, that's fine, but keep your ****ing and moaning
to yourselves.

I see - another hear no evil see no evil outlook.

Sure there are limitations and glitches and issues, but so
what? If you can't figure out how to work around them, then maybe you
should go back to pencil and paper.

That's not what my post was about. Sounds like you're looking for someone to
argue with - that won't be me. On the other hand, if you can actually find
something substantive to say about the post below - please do.


"Dave Onex" wrote in message
...
I'd have to agree with the gist of the original poster. We've seen
nothing
but problems with the directions Microsoft has taken. It seems Microsoft
forgot the lessons they learned from Microsoft Bob - which was not to
mess
with the user interface. It was a hard lesson for them to learn at the
time - but the knowledge gained from that seems to have disappeared.
When
doing support for people I have to ask them which interface they are
using
on XP - something most of them can't answer. This is a small example of
the
support mess that forgotten lesson has created.

With Windows NT 4.0 Microsoft learned another valuable lesson - never
include new software with a service pack. This lesson was also forgotten
with XP. Service Pack 2 for XP caused a lot of problems for us and for
the
record - there's more fixes, patches and updates for XP then in any
previous
Microsoft O/S we've rolled out.

I'm not a fan of XP - instead I see Windows 2000 as the most mature and
stable O/S they ever made. It represents the culmination of the lessons
learned above - plus considerably more - all in one package. And it's
stable - more stable then XP and that's been proven to us again and
again.
XP has some nicer features but the question for us is are the features
more
valuable then a reliable O/S?

In almost every companies history past mistakes are made again and the
net
result (at some point) is an effort to re-focus on their previous core
strengths. I see XP as the start of deviating from the path and Vista as
(hopefully) the final step. Ideally Microsoft will realize this at some
point and get back to the kind of thinking that went into Windows 2000.

Either way, the nice thing about living in today's world is that we
don't
have to use a useless web browser like IE 7 and we don't have to be
pre-programmed into thinking that Vista is the latest and greatest. The
mistakes Microsoft is making today should go a long way to re-enforcing
that
'new' train of thought and opening people's eyes to the fact that the
latest
is not always the greatest. I see that more & more Microsoft is trying
to
force us into staying Microsoft and that the further along we go - the
harder it will be to leave.

I've never been a fan of a 'new' O/S just because it was new. I started
with
Windows for Workgroups and OS/2 and worked closely with all Microsoft
O/S's
since. I was with them through the Windows NT 3.x series as well as NT
4.0.
I saw the mistakes made over the years and I saw the lessons firmly
learned
at Microsoft. Remember the mantra - "Eat your own dog food?" I do. I
also
remember being down in Redmond for OEM meetings and seeing this
philosophy
in action.

Those were the days when mistakes were corrected - fast! Lessons (as
above)
were learned and taken to heart. I remember when Microsoft was holding a
well-deserved barbeque at Netscape! IE was a better browser but IE 7
sure
isn't. IE 7 is a reactionary product developed to try and stave off
Firefox's increasing market share - nothing more - and a botched attempt
at
that. What impresses me most about Firefox is it's small size.....

Microsoft's changed - and not for the better. We're back to release a
product and correct/complete development after people have paid for it
and
installed it. Nice. I went through that with NT 4.0, Proxy 1.0 (among
others) and am not interested in going that route with XP or with Vista.

This recurring revenue stream that Microsoft is after stopped for us at
Windows 2000. All my servers run Windows 2000 and very few workstations
run
XP. If Microsoft persists in ignoring/re-learning lessons from the past
then
I will continue to vote with our pocketbook and look more closely at
Linux.
I never wanted to go the Linux route but the more I hear about where
Microsoft is going (coupled with what I've seen over the last few years)
the
more I feel that it's inevitable. Recently I had to speak to someone in
India to try and get approval for a valid XP installation and it was
quickly
apparent that I had to prove to them that the O/S was legit and that
they
had the authority to declare my legal store-bought product invalid. That
was
not a pleasant experience and while I can understand the theft angle I
also
don't want to be assumed guilty until proven innocent. This has a direct
impact on decisions I make.

I'd prefer to stay with MS but the path they've chosen is actually
what's
pushing me to Linux. It's less a question of dollars then it is of
dealing
with inferior & bloated software and having to pay for the same year
after
year.

My fear is that it is only a matter of time before we go Linux. I don't
want
to learn something new as I've got my hands full with what's on my plate
but
I think it's inevitable.

I've mentioned flaws in ISA 2004 for some time now but it seems that all
the
effort is being concentrated on ISA 2006. This illustrates another
example
that I find reprehensible. Am I now forced to pay my way into ISA 2006
just
to get support that should have been included in the cost of ISA 2004?
And
just for the record, that flaw came out of new functionality added
through
means of a Service Pack. Remember the forgotten lesson I explained
above?
There's another example of it in action.

Our/my interest is not in paying Microsoft an annual fee. Instead I'd
like
to see Microsoft actually complete the development of the products that
we
originally purchased before trying to get new money from us for
something
that's 'new' and 'better'.

Best!
Marvin Miller




"Phil Mongelluzzo, Sr." wrote in message
...
Buy a iMac and wander around in the maze of the unknown.

"Red nosed reindeer" - wrote in message
...
Microsoft has blundered big time. I think that the company will
suffer
greatly with
this new product line. Bad concepts and design of these programs will
plague them for years.

The ultimate winner: Windows Vista. And you think nothing could be
worse
than windows ME!
Reason: Every aspect of this OS is horrible. From its looks, to all
the
changes they made,to the things they should have done but didn't,
they
took XP and twisted it into a monstrosity.

Worse browser: IE7 wins this title hands down. Its non customizable
interface with
bad design, its poorly implemented tabs, and the multitude of bugs
makes
this software of beta quality and never should have been released.

Worse Office suite: Office 2007 because of its huge bloat, and the
ribbon
(the new toolbar), which will go down in history as the stupidest
interface ever implemented in an office program.

Worse Media player: WMP11. Because it is damn ugly and failed to add
the
things people really needed.

Worse email client: Windows live mail desktop, because the design
follows
the
same concepts of vista, again they took outlook express... and made a
monster out of it.

Having said all that, I have to say that there is one stand alone MS
product that is good,
IF you tweak it and customize it. Live messenger 8

The bright side to all this, is that the failures of the above
software
will open up the doors to new
developers, to make new innovative applications that will provide
service
and joy to humanity in 2007.

So are you Dave or Marvin?!?!?!?

Dave Onex wrote:

I'd have to agree with
massive snippage

to get new money from us for something
that's 'new' and 'better'.

Best!
Marvin Miller

maybe this character is both? damn that would be annoying

"Bob I" wrote in message
...
So are you Dave or Marvin?!?!?!?

Dave Onex wrote:

I'd have to agree with
massive snippage

to get new money from us for something
that's 'new' and 'better'.

Best!
Marvin Miller

I'm neither :-) OK, alright - I'm Marvin!


"Ray Herring" wrote in message
...
maybe this character is both? damn that would be annoying

"Bob I" wrote in message
...
So are you Dave or Marvin?!?!?!?

Dave Onex wrote:

I'd have to agree with
massive snippage

to get new money from us for something
that's 'new' and 'better'.

Best!
Marvin Miller

It makes me feel better to read all the negative comments because I
absolutely HATE Vista and if I could return my computer and get my money back
I would. Can anybody help me as far as word processing with Vista. I do not
want to buy Office Point or whatever it is called. I just want tried and
trusted Microsoft Word and I can't even figure out if it is in Vista. Help!!
--
GB


"Red nosed reindeer" wrote:

Microsoft has blundered big time. I think that the company will suffer
greatly with
this new product line. Bad concepts and design of these programs will plague
them for years.

The ultimate winner: Windows Vista. And you think nothing could be worse
than windows ME!
Reason: Every aspect of this OS is horrible. From its looks, to all the
changes they made,to the things they should have done but didn't, they took
XP and twisted it into a monstrosity.

Worse browser: IE7 wins this title hands down. Its non customizable
interface with
bad design, its poorly implemented tabs, and the multitude of bugs makes
this software of beta quality and never should have been released.

Worse Office suite: Office 2007 because of its huge bloat, and the ribbon
(the new toolbar), which will go down in history as the stupidest interface
ever implemented in an office program.

Worse Media player: WMP11. Because it is damn ugly and failed to add the
things people really needed.

Worse email client: Windows live mail desktop, because the design follows
the
same concepts of vista, again they took outlook express... and made a
monster out of it.

Having said all that, I have to say that there is one stand alone MS product
that is good,
IF you tweak it and customize it. Live messenger 8

The bright side to all this, is that the failures of the above software will
open up the doors to new
developers, to make new innovative applications that will provide service
and joy to humanity in 2007.

Good Night Nurse!!!

If you don't have sense enough to know what Microsoft Office is, or you don't
have sense enough to figure out if Microsoft Word is included in Vista, then,
praise the Lord, why would anyone trust your judgment of Vista?

What a dink!



"Gerry" wrote in message
...
It makes me feel better to read all the negative comments because I
absolutely HATE Vista and if I could return my computer and get my money back
I would. Can anybody help me as far as word processing with Vista. I do not
want to buy Office Point or whatever it is called. I just want tried and
trusted Microsoft Word and I can't even figure out if it is in Vista. Help!!
--
GB


"Red nosed reindeer" wrote:

Microsoft has blundered big time. I think that the company will suffer
greatly with
this new product line. Bad concepts and design of these programs will plague
them for years.

The ultimate winner: Windows Vista. And you think nothing could be worse
than windows ME!
Reason: Every aspect of this OS is horrible. From its looks, to all the
changes they made,to the things they should have done but didn't, they took
XP and twisted it into a monstrosity.

Worse browser: IE7 wins this title hands down. Its non customizable
interface with
bad design, its poorly implemented tabs, and the multitude of bugs makes
this software of beta quality and never should have been released.

Worse Office suite: Office 2007 because of its huge bloat, and the ribbon
(the new toolbar), which will go down in history as the stupidest interface
ever implemented in an office program.

Worse Media player: WMP11. Because it is damn ugly and failed to add the
things people really needed.

Worse email client: Windows live mail desktop, because the design follows
the
same concepts of vista, again they took outlook express... and made a
monster out of it.

Having said all that, I have to say that there is one stand alone MS product
that is good,
IF you tweak it and customize it. Live messenger 8

The bright side to all this, is that the failures of the above software will
open up the doors to new
developers, to make new innovative applications that will provide service
and joy to humanity in 2007.

Microsoft Word has "never" been a part on ANY operating system. If you buy a
computer from one of the major manufacturers, it "may" have come
pre-installed on your computer. It it did you paid for it as part of the
price of the computer.

Now that people are clamoring for computers in the sub $500 range, guess
what gets left out?

If you want Word you have to buy Word - either with a new computer or as a
separate package.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

"Gerry" wrote in message
...
It makes me feel better to read all the negative comments because I
absolutely HATE Vista and if I could return my computer and get my money
back
I would. Can anybody help me as far as word processing with Vista. I do
not
want to buy Office Point or whatever it is called. I just want tried and
trusted Microsoft Word and I can't even figure out if it is in Vista.
Help!!
--
GB


"Red nosed reindeer" wrote:

Microsoft has blundered big time. I think that the company will suffer
greatly with
this new product line. Bad concepts and design of these programs will
plague
them for years.

The ultimate winner: Windows Vista. And you think nothing could be worse
than windows ME!
Reason: Every aspect of this OS is horrible. From its looks, to all the
changes they made,to the things they should have done but didn't, they
took
XP and twisted it into a monstrosity.

Worse browser: IE7 wins this title hands down. Its non customizable
interface with
bad design, its poorly implemented tabs, and the multitude of bugs makes
this software of beta quality and never should have been released.

Worse Office suite: Office 2007 because of its huge bloat, and the ribbon
(the new toolbar), which will go down in history as the stupidest
interface
ever implemented in an office program.

Worse Media player: WMP11. Because it is damn ugly and failed to add the
things people really needed.

Worse email client: Windows live mail desktop, because the design follows
the
same concepts of vista, again they took outlook express... and made a
monster out of it.

Having said all that, I have to say that there is one stand alone MS
product
that is good,
IF you tweak it and customize it. Live messenger 8

The bright side to all this, is that the failures of the above software
will
open up the doors to new
developers, to make new innovative applications that will provide service
and joy to humanity in 2007.

Microsoft Word has never been a part of the operating system, and is not
provided with Vista.
If you got it or other Office products on a computer before, it was included
by the retailer as part of a package.

If you have a copy of Word, you can probably install it and use it. I'm
using Word 2003.




"Gerry" wrote in message
...
It makes me feel better to read all the negative comments because I
absolutely HATE Vista and if I could return my computer and get my money
back
I would. Can anybody help me as far as word processing with Vista. I do
not
want to buy Office Point or whatever it is called. I just want tried and
trusted Microsoft Word and I can't even figure out if it is in Vista.
Help!!
--
GB


"Red nosed reindeer" wrote:

Microsoft has blundered big time. I think that the company will suffer
greatly with
this new product line. Bad concepts and design of these programs will
plague
them for years.

The ultimate winner: Windows Vista. And you think nothing could be worse
than windows ME!
Reason: Every aspect of this OS is horrible. From its looks, to all the
changes they made,to the things they should have done but didn't, they
took
XP and twisted it into a monstrosity.

Worse browser: IE7 wins this title hands down. Its non customizable
interface with
bad design, its poorly implemented tabs, and the multitude of bugs makes
this software of beta quality and never should have been released.

Worse Office suite: Office 2007 because of its huge bloat, and the ribbon
(the new toolbar), which will go down in history as the stupidest
interface
ever implemented in an office program.

Worse Media player: WMP11. Because it is damn ugly and failed to add the
things people really needed.

Worse email client: Windows live mail desktop, because the design follows
the
same concepts of vista, again they took outlook express... and made a
monster out of it.

Having said all that, I have to say that there is one stand alone MS
product
that is good,
IF you tweak it and customize it. Live messenger 8

The bright side to all this, is that the failures of the above software
will
open up the doors to new
developers, to make new innovative applications that will provide service
and joy to humanity in 2007.

Wow...take a breath and count to 10...I don't know why people get so
emotional over an operating system...it's just 0s and 1s. You can always
downgrade to Windows XP if that would help calm the swelling rage :-)

Anyway...Word does not come with Vista so you have to buy it. Perhaps you
meant "Microsoft Office" or "Microsoft PowerPoint" when you referred to
"Office Point"? Word comes with Microsoft Office (along with Excel,
PowerPoint, Outlook, and Access...depending on the version you buy). You can
also buy just Word by itself. It's more cost effective to purchase Office,
unless you intend to use only Word.

Does that come anywhere near answering your question?

Tim

"Gerry" wrote in message
...
It makes me feel better to read all the negative comments because I
absolutely HATE Vista and if I could return my computer and get my money
back
I would. Can anybody help me as far as word processing with Vista. I do
not
want to buy Office Point or whatever it is called. I just want tried and
trusted Microsoft Word and I can't even figure out if it is in Vista.
Help!!
--
GB


"Red nosed reindeer" wrote:

Microsoft has blundered big time. I think that the company will suffer
greatly with
this new product line. Bad concepts and design of these programs will
plague
them for years.

The ultimate winner: Windows Vista. And you think nothing could be worse
than windows ME!
Reason: Every aspect of this OS is horrible. From its looks, to all the
changes they made,to the things they should have done but didn't, they
took
XP and twisted it into a monstrosity.

Worse browser: IE7 wins this title hands down. Its non customizable
interface with
bad design, its poorly implemented tabs, and the multitude of bugs makes
this software of beta quality and never should have been released.

Worse Office suite: Office 2007 because of its huge bloat, and the ribbon
(the new toolbar), which will go down in history as the stupidest
interface
ever implemented in an office program.

Worse Media player: WMP11. Because it is damn ugly and failed to add the
things people really needed.

Worse email client: Windows live mail desktop, because the design follows
the
same concepts of vista, again they took outlook express... and made a
monster out of it.

Having said all that, I have to say that there is one stand alone MS
product
that is good,
IF you tweak it and customize it. Live messenger 8

The bright side to all this, is that the failures of the above software
will
open up the doors to new
developers, to make new innovative applications that will provide service
and joy to humanity in 2007.