Losing numbers on pre-formatted styles

I've got a complete set of heading styles created with outline numbering
which work perfectly.

I have also created a new style 'Para2' based on Heading 2, in the paragraph
dialog I've linked it to Body text as I want it ignored from the TOC.

All is OK, the numbering of Para2 follows the numbering of Heading 2
perfectly UNTIL i decided that the number font on Para2 should not be bold.
As soon as I remove the Bold from Para2 style number I lose the numbering
from Heading 2. This is driving me crazy, can anyone help as I need to keep
the numbering in Heading 2 in bold.

Thanks is advance
Julie

As you have noticed, if you base a style on an outline numbered one,
numbering will work as expected as long as you don't try to modify it
for the child style. What happens, as soon as you try to make any
modifications to the outline number (including changing font
attributes) of the child style, is that the parent style will be
kicked out of the numbering scheme and, accordingly, lose its
numbering.

I don't claim to have technical knowledge of why this happens, but if
you want to get a philosophical explanation, I think it helps to
consider what happens when you modify (say) the font size of a child
style. Exactly as expected, the child no longer derives the font name
from the parent style; that aspect of the child has been detached from
the parent.

Similarly, changing number properties adds that data to the child
style. But why is it removed from the parent? I think there are two
things to consider he (a) An outline list template (outline
numbering scheme) level can only have a single paragraph style linked
to it, and (b) Word has to deal with a *single* list template. In
other words, Word has a single list template and a list template level
with room for only one style; and that's the root of the problem. When
you think about it, it (almost) makes sense to act the way Word does
in this situation.

Anyway, the consequence of Word's behavior is that if you want to use
inheritance when numbering is involved, for a given attribute, you
must choose one of the following: (a) let the numbering scheme
determine the attribute of the outline number for both styles or (b)
for each of the two styles, let the style determine the attribute of
the number.

In other words, the only way you can make the outline number of Para2
not to be bold and the number of Heading 4 to be bold is to specify
that, with regards to the bold attribute, Para2 should use the same
setting as for the text of Para2 attributes:

1. First make sure that the Heading 4 style does not have the bold
attribute set explicitly for its outline number: Click the Font button
in the Customize Outline Numbered List dialog box and see if "Bold" is
selected. If it is, select and delete the option in the dialog box.
Click OK multiple times to close all dialog boxes.

Note that any modifications to an outline numbering scheme must be
made from the top-level style. For details, see:
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numb...Numbering.html.

2. Modify (from the Modify Style dialog box) the font of the Para2
style *not* to include the bold attribute.

3. Modify the font of the Heading 4 style to include the bold
attribute.

A better approach for using the same numbering across different
paragraph styles is to use LISTNUM fields. If you don't need to
include higher levels for the numbering of a specific level, the same
thing can more easily be accomplished with SEQ fields. If you want to
look into this approach, you can start reading about these fields in
Word Help. You can then return to the newsgroup with questions, if
necessary.

--
Stefan Blom


"JulieG" wrote:
I've got a complete set of heading styles created with outline
numbering
which work perfectly.

I have also created a new style 'Para2' based on Heading 2, in the
paragraph
dialog I've linked it to Body text as I want it ignored from the
TOC.

All is OK, the numbering of Para2 follows the numbering of Heading 2
perfectly UNTIL i decided that the number font on Para2 should not
be bold.
As soon as I remove the Bold from Para2 style number I lose the
numbering
from Heading 2. This is driving me crazy, can anyone help as I need
to keep
the numbering in Heading 2 in bold.

Thanks is advance
Julie

Many thanks for the info. You've given me plenty to go away and play with.

Julie

"Stefan Blom" wrote:

As you have noticed, if you base a style on an outline numbered one,
numbering will work as expected as long as you don't try to modify it
for the child style. What happens, as soon as you try to make any
modifications to the outline number (including changing font
attributes) of the child style, is that the parent style will be
kicked out of the numbering scheme and, accordingly, lose its
numbering.

I don't claim to have technical knowledge of why this happens, but if
you want to get a philosophical explanation, I think it helps to
consider what happens when you modify (say) the font size of a child
style. Exactly as expected, the child no longer derives the font name
from the parent style; that aspect of the child has been detached from
the parent.

Similarly, changing number properties adds that data to the child
style. But why is it removed from the parent? I think there are two
things to consider he (a) An outline list template (outline
numbering scheme) level can only have a single paragraph style linked
to it, and (b) Word has to deal with a *single* list template. In
other words, Word has a single list template and a list template level
with room for only one style; and that's the root of the problem. When
you think about it, it (almost) makes sense to act the way Word does
in this situation.

Anyway, the consequence of Word's behavior is that if you want to use
inheritance when numbering is involved, for a given attribute, you
must choose one of the following: (a) let the numbering scheme
determine the attribute of the outline number for both styles or (b)
for each of the two styles, let the style determine the attribute of
the number.

In other words, the only way you can make the outline number of Para2
not to be bold and the number of Heading 4 to be bold is to specify
that, with regards to the bold attribute, Para2 should use the same
setting as for the text of Para2 attributes:

1. First make sure that the Heading 4 style does not have the bold
attribute set explicitly for its outline number: Click the Font button
in the Customize Outline Numbered List dialog box and see if "Bold" is
selected. If it is, select and delete the option in the dialog box.
Click OK multiple times to close all dialog boxes.

Note that any modifications to an outline numbering scheme must be
made from the top-level style. For details, see:
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numb...Numbering.html.

2. Modify (from the Modify Style dialog box) the font of the Para2
style *not* to include the bold attribute.

3. Modify the font of the Heading 4 style to include the bold
attribute.

A better approach for using the same numbering across different
paragraph styles is to use LISTNUM fields. If you don't need to
include higher levels for the numbering of a specific level, the same
thing can more easily be accomplished with SEQ fields. If you want to
look into this approach, you can start reading about these fields in
Word Help. You can then return to the newsgroup with questions, if
necessary.

--
Stefan Blom


"JulieG" wrote:
I've got a complete set of heading styles created with outline
numbering
which work perfectly.

I have also created a new style 'Para2' based on Heading 2, in the
paragraph
dialog I've linked it to Body text as I want it ignored from the
TOC.

All is OK, the numbering of Para2 follows the numbering of Heading 2
perfectly UNTIL i decided that the number font on Para2 should not
be bold.
As soon as I remove the Bold from Para2 style number I lose the
numbering
from Heading 2. This is driving me crazy, can anyone help as I need
to keep
the numbering in Heading 2 in bold.

Thanks is advance
Julie

New version of my response, with some minor corrections:

As you have noticed, if you base a style on an outline numbered one,
numbering will work as expected as long as you don't try to modify it
for the child style. What happens, as soon as you try to make any
modifications to the outline number (including changing font
attributes) of the child style, is that the parent style will be
kicked out of the numbering scheme and, accordingly, lose its
numbering.

I don't claim to have technical insight into this behavior, but in
order to find a philosophical explanation, I think it helps to
consider what happens when you modify (say) the font size of a child
style. Exactly as expected, the child no longer derives the font size
from the parent style; that aspect of the child is no longer linked to
the parent.

Similarly, changing number properties adds that data to the child
style. But why is it removed from the parent? I think there are two
things to consider he (a) An outline list template (outline
numbering scheme) level can only have a single paragraph style linked
to it, and (b) Word has to deal with a *single* list template. In
other words, Word has a single list template and a list template level
with room for only one style; and that's the root of the problem. When
you think about it, it (almost) makes sense to act the way Word does
in this situation.

Anyway, the consequence of Word's behavior is that if you want to use
inheritance when numbering is involved, for a given attribute, you
must choose one of the following: (a) let the numbering scheme
determine the attribute of the outline number for both styles or (b)
for each of the two styles, let the style determine the attribute of
the number.

Here's how to do (b):

1. First make sure that the Heading 4 style does not have the bold
attribute set explicitly for its outline number: Click the Font button
in the Customize Outline Numbered List dialog box and see if "Bold" is
selected. If it is, select and delete the option in the dialog box.
Click OK multiple times to close all dialog boxes.

Note that any modifications to an outline numbering scheme must be
made from the top-level style. For details, see:
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numb...Numbering.html.

2. Modify (from the Modify Style dialog box) the font of the Para2
style *not* to include the bold attribute.

3. Modify the font of the Heading 4 style to include the bold
attribute.

A better approach for using the same numbering across different
paragraph styles is to use LISTNUM fields. If you don't need to
include higher levels for the numbering of a specific level, the same
thing can more easily be accomplished with SEQ fields. If you want to
look into this approach, you can start reading about these fields in
Word Help. You can then return to the newsgroup with questions, if
necessary.

--
Stefan Blom


"JulieG" wrote:
I've got a complete set of heading styles created with outline
numbering
which work perfectly.

I have also created a new style 'Para2' based on Heading 2, in the
paragraph
dialog I've linked it to Body text as I want it ignored from the
TOC.

All is OK, the numbering of Para2 follows the numbering of Heading 2
perfectly UNTIL i decided that the number font on Para2 should not
be bold.
As soon as I remove the Bold from Para2 style number I lose the
numbering
from Heading 2. This is driving me crazy, can anyone help as I need
to keep
the numbering in Heading 2 in bold.

Thanks is advance
Julie





























--
Stefan Blom


"Stefan Blom" wrote:
As you have noticed, if you base a style on an outline numbered one,
numbering will work as expected as long as you don't try to modify
it
for the child style. What happens, as soon as you try to make any
modifications to the outline number (including changing font
attributes) of the child style, is that the parent style will be
kicked out of the numbering scheme and, accordingly, lose its
numbering.

I don't claim to have technical knowledge of why this happens, but
if
you want to get a philosophical explanation, I think it helps to
consider what happens when you modify (say) the font size of a child
style. Exactly as expected, the child no longer derives the font
name
from the parent style; that aspect of the child has been detached
from
the parent.

Similarly, changing number properties adds that data to the child
style. But why is it removed from the parent? I think there are two
things to consider he (a) An outline list template (outline
numbering scheme) level can only have a single paragraph style
linked
to it, and (b) Word has to deal with a *single* list template. In
other words, Word has a single list template and a list template
level
with room for only one style; and that's the root of the problem.
When
you think about it, it (almost) makes sense to act the way Word does
in this situation.

Anyway, the consequence of Word's behavior is that if you want to
use
inheritance when numbering is involved, for a given attribute, you
must choose one of the following: (a) let the numbering scheme
determine the attribute of the outline number for both styles or (b)
for each of the two styles, let the style determine the attribute of
the number.

In other words, the only way you can make the outline number of
Para2
not to be bold and the number of Heading 4 to be bold is to specify
that, with regards to the bold attribute, Para2 should use the same
setting as for the text of Para2 attributes:

1. First make sure that the Heading 4 style does not have the bold
attribute set explicitly for its outline number: Click the Font
button
in the Customize Outline Numbered List dialog box and see if "Bold"
is
selected. If it is, select and delete the option in the dialog box.
Click OK multiple times to close all dialog boxes.

Note that any modifications to an outline numbering scheme must be
made from the top-level style. For details, see:
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numb...Numbering.html.

2. Modify (from the Modify Style dialog box) the font of the Para2
style *not* to include the bold attribute.

3. Modify the font of the Heading 4 style to include the bold
attribute.

A better approach for using the same numbering across different
paragraph styles is to use LISTNUM fields. If you don't need to
include higher levels for the numbering of a specific level, the
same
thing can more easily be accomplished with SEQ fields. If you want
to
look into this approach, you can start reading about these fields in
Word Help. You can then return to the newsgroup with questions, if
necessary.

--
Stefan Blom


"JulieG" wrote:
I've got a complete set of heading styles created with outline
numbering
which work perfectly.

I have also created a new style 'Para2' based on Heading 2, in the
paragraph
dialog I've linked it to Body text as I want it ignored from the
TOC.

All is OK, the numbering of Para2 follows the numbering of Heading
2
perfectly UNTIL i decided that the number font on Para2 should not
be bold.
As soon as I remove the Bold from Para2 style number I lose the
numbering
from Heading 2. This is driving me crazy, can anyone help as I
need
to keep
the numbering in Heading 2 in bold.

Thanks is advance
Julie

"JulieG" wrote:
Many thanks for the info. You've given me plenty to go away and play
with.

Julie


I hope you'll also find it helpful. :-)

Also note that I have posted a slightly modified version of my initial
response, since I found some errors.

--
Stefan Blom

Julie,
Also please note that you can build a TOC from specific styles rather than
outline levels, so you don't necessarily have to set Para2's paragraph
format outline level as body text.

Regards,
Chad


"JulieG" wrote in message
...
I've got a complete set of heading styles created with outline numbering
which work perfectly.

I have also created a new style 'Para2' based on Heading 2, in the
paragraph
dialog I've linked it to Body text as I want it ignored from the TOC.

All is OK, the numbering of Para2 follows the numbering of Heading 2
perfectly UNTIL i decided that the number font on Para2 should not be
bold.
As soon as I remove the Bold from Para2 style number I lose the numbering
from Heading 2. This is driving me crazy, can anyone help as I need to
keep
the numbering in Heading 2 in bold.

Thanks is advance
Julie