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#11
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Quirk in W2003 grammar
On Feb 13, 2:49*am, "L. Mohan Arun" wrote:
Disagree - IT IS a problem with W2003 grammar. And I still say software is a term that needs to be plural not singular. Or both. It is not a matter for "disagreement." It is a matter of the way the English language is spoken. You do not get to decide to change English. I am not saying to change English - I am not interested in that. The purpose of this discussion is that I think "software" can be both singular or plural in meaning. The purpose of this posting is not about usage of English, but about Word 2003 grammar. You can take a look at the thread subject before you post any more of your answers or please dont answer at all. You are correct that "software" can be either singular or plural in meaning. You are incorrect in supposing that the verb number agreees with the meaning of the word rather than the form of the word. I am a native speaker of English, I have a graduate degree in linguistics, and I have worked as an editor for nearly forty years. On this one particular point, "Word2003 grammar" is correct. Specifically I am saying that both these sentences with the word "software" are NOT getting flagged as errors in W2003 grammar This Software pieces is great These pieces of Software is great You now completely change the topic, because the subject of the verb is no longer "software," but "pieces"; of course the verb (as well as the determinter "these") must be plural, and if "Word2003 grammar" does not recognize that, then it's a pretty basic flaw in "Word2003 grammar." It is blindly taking "software" as singular even though I have qualified it with "pieces". So it IS something to do with W2003 grammar with the word "software" You have not understood English grammar. What it should be reacting to is not "software" at all, because "software" is not the subject of the verb; "pieces" is. To prove this type this in w 2003 "There are other softwares for doing this." "Softwares" term is flagged as error - right click - you will find "software" as an option. Select that and it now complains about the "are". Have you bothered to look in your English grammar book for the concept "mass noun"? How is it possible that you studied English as a Second Language and were never taught about mass nouns vs. count nouns? Regarding those two errors, the computer is absolutely correct. I have to say that you seem to be getting irritable with this thread because you are indulging on a direct personal attack rather than being an objective contributor. If this thread irritates you, then why you are posting at all? Let others reply if at all they do. Yes, I am getting irritable, because you continue to misstate the most elementary facts of English grammar. Bottom line: Both the words "download" and "software" needs fixing in Grammar in W2003 Grammar checkers don't operate on words. They operate on grammar. Yeah so? What I meant is that the grammar implementation in W2003 that involves these words are not perfect in my opinion. Any linguist knows that computerized grammar checkers are basically failures. Human language is far too complex for any computer to handle. (Yet humans master their own language by the time they're about three years old.) You had not previously brought up the word "download," and I most definitely do not want to know what your problem with it is. Who said I wanted *you* to know what my problem is - This is a public thread where others can read and understand about W2003 grammar issues. I am not asking *you* in particular about any problem with the word "download" in W2003 grammar. You were rude to Suzanne, one of the nicest people anywhere, and then you ignored her second reply, so she wisely withdrew from the thread, leaving it to me, who am known to be able to be rude to people who provoke rudeness. If you really wanted to say that "software" is a mass or uncountable noun you could have given an authoritative link like this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_noun I am not interested in *YOUR* opinion about English grammar or whether Word 2003 grammar is correct or not, as you yourself may have English as second language. Your arrogance is unbelievable. Maybe you should save your attacks for the people who took your (or your parents') money for teaching you English, and failing so utterly. |
#12
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Quirk in W2003 grammar
This Software pieces is great
These pieces of Software is great You now completely change the topic, because the subject of the verb is no longer "software," but "pieces"; of course the verb (as well as the determinter "these") must be plural, and if "Word2003 grammar" does not recognize that, then it's a pretty basic flaw in "Word2003 grammar." No this is not a different topic - take a look at the topic again - "Quirk in W2003 grammar" related to the keyword "software". So in your opinion it is "pretty basic flaw". Not mine. I think it is a flaw nonetheless. It is blindly taking "software" as singular even though I have qualified it with "pieces". So it IS something to do with W2003 grammar with the word "software" You have not understood English grammar. What it should be reacting to is not "software" at all, because "software" is not the subject of the verb; "pieces" is. You have an attitude problem with non-English speakers that clouds your objective judgement, if you have any. The word "pieces" by itself is recognized as plural correctly, but when used with the "software" combination it creates a problem. So "software" is still the problem. I have to say that you seem to be getting irritable with this thread because you are indulging on a direct personal attack rather than being an objective contributor. If this thread irritates you, then why you are posting at all? Let others reply if at all they do. Yes, I am getting irritable, because you continue to misstate the most elementary facts of English grammar. yeah so, there are millions of people worldwide who have mistaken assumptions in worldwide forum threads or newsgroup threads like this. But you are the single person I have ever come across that indulged in a direct attack and I would attribute it to your attitude about non- English speakers who are using English. You had not previously brought up the word "download," and I most definitely do not want to know what your problem with it is. Who said I wanted *you* to know what my problem is - This is a public thread where others can read and understand about W2003 grammar issues. I am not asking *you* in particular about any problem with the word "download" in W2003 grammar. You were rude to Suzanne, one of the nicest people anywhere, and then you ignored her second reply, so she wisely withdrew from the thread, leaving it to me, who am known to be able to be rude to people who provoke rudeness. Are you out of your mind? I have not been rude to anybody in any thread. Please clean your glasses from 40 years use and read through the thread again from top to bottom for any hint of rudeness on my part. It is *you* who are being rude to me, not the other way around. If you can help, help. Otherwise please find somewhere else to post about your irritations. And I have not "ignored her second reply" because you replied after her, and I have replied concerning *your* post. I have not provoked any rudeness - if you are rude to me on a public thread, I can be rude too. If you really wanted to say that "software" is a mass or uncountable noun you could have given an authoritative link like this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_noun I am not interested in *YOUR* opinion about English grammar or whether Word 2003 grammar is correct or not, as you yourself may have English as second language. Your arrogance is unbelievable. Maybe you should save your attacks for the people who took your (or your parents') money for teaching you English, and failing so utterly. Again, you are *crazy* and *with attitude problem* for saying "my arrogance is unbelievable". It is who you are being arrogant with me. And I can say that I do better English than some of the native English speakers and writers. |
#13
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Quirk in W2003 grammar
On Feb 14, 1:25*pm, "L. Mohan Arun" wrote:
And I can say that I do better English than some of the native English speakers and writers. Sorry, what is "I do better English"? |
#14
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Quirk in W2003 grammar
I am sick and tired of the irritable and provoking replies in this
thread so my grammar has slipped up. This thread is not about my grammar, it is about Word 2003 grammar. More issues with Word 2003 grammar These downloads is super-fast and free. - Grammar error not recognized even though "download" is not a mass noun. The movie file downloads happens very fast - No grammar issue recognized but it should be "happen very fast" |
#15
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Quirk in W2003 grammar
Fortunately we are not all as perfect as 'grammatim', but ultimately you are
correct that Word's grammar checker (like all other grammar checkers) has limitations. Given the complexity and changing nature of the English language, I doubt that there will ever be a grammar checker that will be flawless. It is one of those things that you must learn to live with ... or simply turn it off and use your own judgement. -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org L. Mohan Arun wrote: I am sick and tired of the irritable and provoking replies in this thread so my grammar has slipped up. This thread is not about my grammar, it is about Word 2003 grammar. More issues with Word 2003 grammar These downloads is super-fast and free. - Grammar error not recognized even though "download" is not a mass noun. The movie file downloads happens very fast - No grammar issue recognized but it should be "happen very fast" |
#16
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Quirk in W2003 grammar
it should be "happen very fast"
Actually it should be "happen very quickly" ;-) The grammar checker is far from perfect and, whilst it will probably improve over time, is likely to remain so. In general, it struggles with constructs of the sort you are using as examples, which can't easily be parsed. Not knowing quite how to interpret the sentence, Word has to make some guesses. Given that the sentence has several possible nouns, several possible verbs, no obvious adjectives, and appears somewhat odd on the surface, my *guess* is that it assumes "movie" to be an adjective, downloads" to be the verb, and "happens" to be a noun, which assumptions allow it to consider the sentence to be valid. Yes, it happens to be wrong, but we all make mistakes, one of which would be relying on machine interpretations of language. -- Enjoy, Tony www.WordArticles.com "L. Mohan Arun" wrote in message ... I am sick and tired of the irritable and provoking replies in this thread so my grammar has slipped up. This thread is not about my grammar, it is about Word 2003 grammar. More issues with Word 2003 grammar These downloads is super-fast and free. - Grammar error not recognized even though "download" is not a mass noun. The movie file downloads happens very fast - No grammar issue recognized but it should be "happen very fast" |
#17
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Quirk in W2003 grammar
On Feb 15, 1:38*am, "Graham Mayor" wrote:
Fortunately we are not all as perfect as 'grammatim', but ultimately you are correct that Word's grammar checker (like all other grammar checkers) has limitations. Given the complexity and changing nature of the English language, I doubt that there will ever be a grammar checker that will be flawless. It is one of those things that you must learn to live with ... or simply turn it off and use your own judgement. It has nothing to do with "perfection." It has to do with two simple facts. (1) Computers are not competent to judge the grammar of human languages, and (2) L. Mohan Arun is not competent to assert what is and what is not a grammatical sentence of English (witness his repeated insistence that "software" can legitimately take a plural verb). This thread from the start has had nothing to do with using Word. |
#18
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Quirk in W2003 grammar
There's nothing wrong with "fast" as an adverb, but I don't see how any
grammar checker could parse "happens" as a noun since there is no way it could be used as such. I suspect the issue is of not recognizing "download" as a possible noun (only as a verb), which means it is making the verb agree with "movie" or "file" (or "movie file"). -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA http://word.mvps.org "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com wrote in message ... it should be "happen very fast" Actually it should be "happen very quickly" ;-) The grammar checker is far from perfect and, whilst it will probably improve over time, is likely to remain so. In general, it struggles with constructs of the sort you are using as examples, which can't easily be parsed. Not knowing quite how to interpret the sentence, Word has to make some guesses. Given that the sentence has several possible nouns, several possible verbs, no obvious adjectives, and appears somewhat odd on the surface, my *guess* is that it assumes "movie" to be an adjective, downloads" to be the verb, and "happens" to be a noun, which assumptions allow it to consider the sentence to be valid. Yes, it happens to be wrong, but we all make mistakes, one of which would be relying on machine interpretations of language. -- Enjoy, Tony www.WordArticles.com "L. Mohan Arun" wrote in message ... I am sick and tired of the irritable and provoking replies in this thread so my grammar has slipped up. This thread is not about my grammar, it is about Word 2003 grammar. More issues with Word 2003 grammar These downloads is super-fast and free. - Grammar error not recognized even though "download" is not a mass noun. The movie file downloads happens very fast - No grammar issue recognized but it should be "happen very fast" |
#19
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Quirk in W2003 grammar
There's nothing wrong with "fast" as an adverb
That doesn't mean that it is correct here. Perhaps it's a difference between English and American, and I will concede that such usage of "fast" is not uncommon, but it jars horribly with me. I suspect the issue is of not recognizing "download" as a possible noun (only as a verb), which means it is making the verb agree with "movie" or "file" (or "movie file"). I agree, and I was only guessing at how a machine might think; it's probably given up the fight by the time it's got as far as "happens", but if it is recognising (or treating) "downloads" as a verb, what can it think "happens" might be, that wouldn't give rise to a grammar error of some sort? -- Enjoy, Tony www.WordArticles.com "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... There's nothing wrong with "fast" as an adverb, but I don't see how any grammar checker could parse "happens" as a noun since there is no way it could be used as such. I suspect the issue is of not recognizing "download" as a possible noun (only as a verb), which means it is making the verb agree with "movie" or "file" (or "movie file"). -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA http://word.mvps.org "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com wrote in message ... it should be "happen very fast" Actually it should be "happen very quickly" ;-) The grammar checker is far from perfect and, whilst it will probably improve over time, is likely to remain so. In general, it struggles with constructs of the sort you are using as examples, which can't easily be parsed. Not knowing quite how to interpret the sentence, Word has to make some guesses. Given that the sentence has several possible nouns, several possible verbs, no obvious adjectives, and appears somewhat odd on the surface, my *guess* is that it assumes "movie" to be an adjective, downloads" to be the verb, and "happens" to be a noun, which assumptions allow it to consider the sentence to be valid. Yes, it happens to be wrong, but we all make mistakes, one of which would be relying on machine interpretations of language. -- Enjoy, Tony www.WordArticles.com "L. Mohan Arun" wrote in message ... I am sick and tired of the irritable and provoking replies in this thread so my grammar has slipped up. This thread is not about my grammar, it is about Word 2003 grammar. More issues with Word 2003 grammar These downloads is super-fast and free. - Grammar error not recognized even though "download" is not a mass noun. The movie file downloads happens very fast - No grammar issue recognized but it should be "happen very fast" |
#20
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Quirk in W2003 grammar
Will you accept the authority of the Oxford Dictionary?
http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexper...uster/a/adverb Interestingly, http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&f...as+adverb&aqi= turns up quite a few sites that use "fast" as an *example* of an adverb. The fact that it doesn't end in -ly doesn't make it only an adjective any more than ending in -ly makes "leisurely," "friendly," or "lonely" an adverb. Many adverbs don't end in -ly, and some have the same form as an adjective. See "Adjective and adverb with the same form" at http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/le...rnitv217.shtml (note: a BBC Web site, not U.S.). More at http://www.fortunecity.com/bally/dur.../gramch25.html -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA http://word.mvps.org "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com wrote in message ... There's nothing wrong with "fast" as an adverb That doesn't mean that it is correct here. Perhaps it's a difference between English and American, and I will concede that such usage of "fast" is not uncommon, but it jars horribly with me. I suspect the issue is of not recognizing "download" as a possible noun (only as a verb), which means it is making the verb agree with "movie" or "file" (or "movie file"). I agree, and I was only guessing at how a machine might think; it's probably given up the fight by the time it's got as far as "happens", but if it is recognising (or treating) "downloads" as a verb, what can it think "happens" might be, that wouldn't give rise to a grammar error of some sort? -- Enjoy, Tony www.WordArticles.com "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... There's nothing wrong with "fast" as an adverb, but I don't see how any grammar checker could parse "happens" as a noun since there is no way it could be used as such. I suspect the issue is of not recognizing "download" as a possible noun (only as a verb), which means it is making the verb agree with "movie" or "file" (or "movie file"). -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA http://word.mvps.org "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com wrote in message ... it should be "happen very fast" Actually it should be "happen very quickly" ;-) The grammar checker is far from perfect and, whilst it will probably improve over time, is likely to remain so. In general, it struggles with constructs of the sort you are using as examples, which can't easily be parsed. Not knowing quite how to interpret the sentence, Word has to make some guesses. Given that the sentence has several possible nouns, several possible verbs, no obvious adjectives, and appears somewhat odd on the surface, my *guess* is that it assumes "movie" to be an adjective, downloads" to be the verb, and "happens" to be a noun, which assumptions allow it to consider the sentence to be valid. Yes, it happens to be wrong, but we all make mistakes, one of which would be relying on machine interpretations of language. -- Enjoy, Tony www.WordArticles.com "L. Mohan Arun" wrote in message ... I am sick and tired of the irritable and provoking replies in this thread so my grammar has slipped up. This thread is not about my grammar, it is about Word 2003 grammar. More issues with Word 2003 grammar These downloads is super-fast and free. - Grammar error not recognized even though "download" is not a mass noun. The movie file downloads happens very fast - No grammar issue recognized but it should be "happen very fast" |
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