Why do Paragraph:Format changes have no effect in table cells?

When I try to vertically reposition text in table cells (WORD 2003) by adding
'space above' &/or 'space below' from the Format:Paragraph dialog box, it
usually has no effect.

The same problem occurs in a slightly different way when I try to
horizontally center text in a table cell that's been repositioned as
'vertical text' (via 'Text Direction'). That is, text in some cells centers
normally. In others, the text positions almost on top of the left border
line (even though the cell's justification is set to 'center'). When I try
to 'force' it to be centered by adding 'space above' (again from the
Format:Paragraph dialog box), nothing happens.

Why do these Paragraph:Format changes have no effect?

Thanks.

Does the cell contain graphics? This can make a difference.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Steve_Ray" wrote in message
...
When I try to vertically reposition text in table cells (WORD 2003) by
adding
'space above' &/or 'space below' from the Format:Paragraph dialog box, it
usually has no effect.

The same problem occurs in a slightly different way when I try to
horizontally center text in a table cell that's been repositioned as
'vertical text' (via 'Text Direction'). That is, text in some cells
centers
normally. In others, the text positions almost on top of the left border
line (even though the cell's justification is set to 'center'). When I
try
to 'force' it to be centered by adding 'space above' (again from the
Format:Paragraph dialog box), nothing happens.

Why do these Paragraph:Format changes have no effect?

Thanks.

Does the cell contain graphics? This can make a difference.

No graphics at all.

Since posting I've realized that in the latter part of my inquiry, adding
'space above' wouldn't have the desired effect because even though the text
in the cell is vertically directioned, 'space above' would only affect the
horizontal dimension.

However, that still doesn't clear up the main issue having to do with text
that's in the normal horizontal direction, but appears differently (i.e.,
with different horizontal positioning relative to the cell borders) in
different cells even though they are all formatted identically.

Indeed, if you want the equivalent of "Space Above/Below" in a vertical
direction (in rotated text), you need to use paragraph indents.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Steve_Ray" wrote in message
...
Does the cell contain graphics? This can make a difference.

No graphics at all.

Since posting I've realized that in the latter part of my inquiry, adding
'space above' wouldn't have the desired effect because even though the
text
in the cell is vertically directioned, 'space above' would only affect the
horizontal dimension.

However, that still doesn't clear up the main issue having to do with text
that's in the normal horizontal direction, but appears differently (i.e.,
with different horizontal positioning relative to the cell borders) in
different cells even though they are all formatted identically.

Indeed, if you want the equivalent of "Space Above/Below" in a vertical
direction (in rotated text), you need to use paragraph indents.

I'm not sure I follow, but I'll do some experimenting with 'indents.' That
still wouldn't appear to explain the variation from one cell to another --
i.e., why text is correctly horizontally centered in some cells but in others
is hugging the 'top' border line of the cell (which, in the case of
'vertical' text, is actually the 'left' border line).

Again, these cells are all formatted identically; there are no alignment or
positioning variations, at least none that I'm aware of.

Indeed, if you want the equivalent of "Space Above/Below" in a vertical
direction (in rotated text), you need to use paragraph indents.

Actually, I don't see how paragraph indents would apply, so maybe I wasn't
clear in my original post.

If text direction in the cell is vertical, the cursor position navigating
through the text is up and down, not the normal left and right.

Therefore, a paragraph indent will just push the text 'up' (not to the
'right'). The problem I referred to is in the other axis -- the horizontal
one. That is, the text itself is vertical, but its horizontal position
within the cell is the problem. Sometimes it's good (i.e., horizontally
centered, as I want it to be), but other times it's too far left (hugging the
left border line).

It's that that I want to fix.

Thanks.

Indeed, if you want the equivalent of "Space Above/Below" in a vertical
direction (in rotated text), you need to use paragraph indents.

Actually, I don't see how paragraph indents would apply, so maybe I wasn't
clear in my original post.

If text direction in the cell is vertical, the cursor position navigating
through the text is up and down, not the normal left and right.

Therefore, a paragraph indent will just push the text 'up' (not to the
'right'). The problem I referred to is in the other axis -- the horizontal
one. That is, the text itself is vertical, but its horizontal position
within the cell is the problem. Sometimes it's good (i.e., horizontally
centered, as I want it to be), but other times it's too far left (hugging the
left border line).

It's that that I want to fix.

Thanks.

You wrote:

Since posting I've realized that in the latter part of my inquiry, adding
'space above' wouldn't have the desired effect because even though the
text
in the cell is vertically directioned, 'space above' would only affect the
horizontal dimension.

This suggested to me that where you were trying to get the space was at the
top of the cell, which would be the right (or left) side of the rotated
text.

And could you please figure out how to avoid posting the same thing three
times?

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Steve_Ray" wrote in message
...
Indeed, if you want the equivalent of "Space Above/Below" in a vertical
direction (in rotated text), you need to use paragraph indents.

I'm not sure I follow, but I'll do some experimenting with 'indents.'
That
still wouldn't appear to explain the variation from one cell to another --
i.e., why text is correctly horizontally centered in some cells but in
others
is hugging the 'top' border line of the cell (which, in the case of
'vertical' text, is actually the 'left' border line).

Again, these cells are all formatted identically; there are no alignment
or
positioning variations, at least none that I'm aware of.

Have you tried using the alignment buttons on the tables and borders toolbar?
There are nine icons for (horizontal) left, right, and center of (vertical)
top, center, and bottom alignments. The icons change when text direction
changes. Note that you may have to clear previous manual formatting for this
to work.

PamC

Steve_Ray wrote:
Indeed, if you want the equivalent of "Space Above/Below" in a vertical
direction (in rotated text), you need to use paragraph indents.

Actually, I don't see how paragraph indents would apply, so maybe I wasn't
clear in my original post.

If text direction in the cell is vertical, the cursor position navigating
through the text is up and down, not the normal left and right.

Therefore, a paragraph indent will just push the text 'up' (not to the
'right'). The problem I referred to is in the other axis -- the horizontal
one. That is, the text itself is vertical, but its horizontal position
within the cell is the problem. Sometimes it's good (i.e., horizontally
centered, as I want it to be), but other times it's too far left (hugging the
left border line).

It's that that I want to fix.

Thanks.

--
Message posted via OfficeKB.com
http://www.officekb.com/Uwe/Forums.a...ables/200811/1

Have you tried using the alignment buttons on the tables and borders toolbar?
There are nine icons for (horizontal) left, right, and center of (vertical)
top, center, and bottom alignments. The icons change when text direction
changes.

Thanks a lot. That does seem to do the trick. However, in the opposite
dimension I haven't found a good way to reduce the 'blank space' on either
side of the vertical text (i.e., blank space on the 'left' and 'right' side
of the text -- which, as you look at the page, is actually space at the 'top'
and 'bottom' of the cell).

I can do it by reducing the 'row' margins (top & bottom), but that reduces
the 'row height,' which isn't what I want. I just want more text to be able
to fit in the cell without wrapping to a new line.

Any ideas on how to do *that*?

Thanks again.