If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
huge problems with database deisgn for survey
Sorry, I did say that I had done the append query. Obviously wrongly but I
wasnt ignoring your advice. I realise that its hard work talking to a novice but I am trying to do this right rather than go for the easier option. "Duane Hookom" wrote: To get the results, you need to run an append query as per two previous replies in this thread. The questions are then displayed in a continuous subform. I'm not sure if it would help understand but if you look at the Northwind Orders and OrderDetails tables. Let's make a couple assumptions: - an order record is like a case record - an order detail is like a result - a product is like a question (let's assume there are only 7 products available or 7 questions) - we then have to assume that everyone is going to buy all seven products (answer all 7 questions) == northwind == You would create an append query based on your product table and the one Order from your order table. This would create 7 order detail records waiting for you to enter quantities to purchase. == survey == You would create an append query based on your questions table and the one Case from your tblCase table. This would create 7 tblResults records waiting for you to enter an answer value. You would never create a single field for each product to be ordered. For instance you wouldn't have an Orders table with fields like: Bread, Milk, Eggs, Apples, ... As I stated earlier, if your questions are fairly generic, you need to normalize. Maybe you should just allow the two local "Experts" create all the fields, controls, reports, queries, ... required with the multiple field solution ;-) -- Duane Hookom Microsoft Access MVP "Desperate in Ontario" wrote: Thanks for the replies Excel won't provide the answers though as it won't porvide reports in the same way as Access does. I am probably wrong there but my experience of Excel doesnt give me means of saying that those Cases who live in post code xxx, who are aged xx, answered, yes, scored 20 etc. My basic problem with this is that now I have the tables. I haven't been able to construct a form that has all the questions (i realize that I can get round this by using text boxes,) and a method of entering the answers so that the results table is populated. The two local "Experts" suggest that I use a field per question. Even some online examples use this method, So I am very confused. I really want to do this the right way tho, I don't want to build in problems for later, I have made a query that is ResultsToQuestionText. I thought this might help with the forms as a subform to case. i still have the problem of how to get a box for each response and show which question. I have tried substituting my questions into AYS but that was a mess too! thank you "Duane Hookom" wrote: I agree with John (as usual). One of the nice benefits of creating a normalized survey application is you don't have to create lots of fields, lookup tables, controls, etc. When I began working on the At Your Survey solution, I was taking over an application started by someone else. I very soon got tired of adding fields, adding tables, adding controls, adding code, adding logic,... While the normalized structure requires that your survey conforms with some basic constraints, it is quite flexible. It could be modified to provide a different user interface but the table structure should remain mostly the same. -- Duane Hookom Microsoft Access MVP "John W. Vinson" wrote: On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:17:01 -0800, Desperate in Ontario wrote: Hi, I have set up the forms and am trying to add the boxes for the results. Should I be looking at list boxes or combo boxes? Whichever is more suitable for your user interface. They both let you edit fields; they look different (the listbox always displays multiple rows, the combo drops down thereby saving screen space, and they handle keystrokes differently). Both work. My questions are listed in rows as text in tblQuestionsAsked, not as fields, so how do I enter each question into the form and have a box for the results? You don't enter questions INTO THE FORM. You *use* the form (or a Questions form) to enter questions INTO THE TABLE. The form for entering answers displays the data stored in the table. Should my results table have rows for each answer? Yes. Would it be so terrible if I went back to having a field for each question?? Yes. In the nature of surveys, questions change over time. If you have a field per question, then when you add or change a question, you must restructure your Table, restructure all Queries involving the table, redesign your Form, redesign your Reports... a monstrous amount of work. In a normalized design when you change or add a question you open the Questions form, change or add the question... and you're DONE. If you'll only ever do *one* survey, and never change it, and discard the database when you're done, then maybe you can do it that way... but it might be simpler to do so in Excel, since you're essentially building a spreadsheet rather than a database. -- John W. Vinson [MVP] |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
huge problems with database deisgn for survey
Is your "ResultsToQuestionText" the append query? Could you share the SQL
view of the append query? Do you have a form based on the Case table with a subform based on the results table? Did you set up the Link Master/Child properties? -- Duane Hookom Microsoft Access MVP "Desperate in Ontario" wrote: Sorry, I did say that I had done the append query. Obviously wrongly but I wasnt ignoring your advice. I realise that its hard work talking to a novice but I am trying to do this right rather than go for the easier option. "Duane Hookom" wrote: To get the results, you need to run an append query as per two previous replies in this thread. The questions are then displayed in a continuous subform. I'm not sure if it would help understand but if you look at the Northwind Orders and OrderDetails tables. Let's make a couple assumptions: - an order record is like a case record - an order detail is like a result - a product is like a question (let's assume there are only 7 products available or 7 questions) - we then have to assume that everyone is going to buy all seven products (answer all 7 questions) == northwind == You would create an append query based on your product table and the one Order from your order table. This would create 7 order detail records waiting for you to enter quantities to purchase. == survey == You would create an append query based on your questions table and the one Case from your tblCase table. This would create 7 tblResults records waiting for you to enter an answer value. You would never create a single field for each product to be ordered. For instance you wouldn't have an Orders table with fields like: Bread, Milk, Eggs, Apples, ... As I stated earlier, if your questions are fairly generic, you need to normalize. Maybe you should just allow the two local "Experts" create all the fields, controls, reports, queries, ... required with the multiple field solution ;-) -- Duane Hookom Microsoft Access MVP "Desperate in Ontario" wrote: Thanks for the replies Excel won't provide the answers though as it won't porvide reports in the same way as Access does. I am probably wrong there but my experience of Excel doesnt give me means of saying that those Cases who live in post code xxx, who are aged xx, answered, yes, scored 20 etc. My basic problem with this is that now I have the tables. I haven't been able to construct a form that has all the questions (i realize that I can get round this by using text boxes,) and a method of entering the answers so that the results table is populated. The two local "Experts" suggest that I use a field per question. Even some online examples use this method, So I am very confused. I really want to do this the right way tho, I don't want to build in problems for later, I have made a query that is ResultsToQuestionText. I thought this might help with the forms as a subform to case. i still have the problem of how to get a box for each response and show which question. I have tried substituting my questions into AYS but that was a mess too! thank you "Duane Hookom" wrote: I agree with John (as usual). One of the nice benefits of creating a normalized survey application is you don't have to create lots of fields, lookup tables, controls, etc. When I began working on the At Your Survey solution, I was taking over an application started by someone else. I very soon got tired of adding fields, adding tables, adding controls, adding code, adding logic,... While the normalized structure requires that your survey conforms with some basic constraints, it is quite flexible. It could be modified to provide a different user interface but the table structure should remain mostly the same. -- Duane Hookom Microsoft Access MVP "John W. Vinson" wrote: On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:17:01 -0800, Desperate in Ontario wrote: Hi, I have set up the forms and am trying to add the boxes for the results. Should I be looking at list boxes or combo boxes? Whichever is more suitable for your user interface. They both let you edit fields; they look different (the listbox always displays multiple rows, the combo drops down thereby saving screen space, and they handle keystrokes differently). Both work. My questions are listed in rows as text in tblQuestionsAsked, not as fields, so how do I enter each question into the form and have a box for the results? You don't enter questions INTO THE FORM. You *use* the form (or a Questions form) to enter questions INTO THE TABLE. The form for entering answers displays the data stored in the table. Should my results table have rows for each answer? Yes. Would it be so terrible if I went back to having a field for each question?? Yes. In the nature of surveys, questions change over time. If you have a field per question, then when you add or change a question, you must restructure your Table, restructure all Queries involving the table, redesign your Form, redesign your Reports... a monstrous amount of work. In a normalized design when you change or add a question you open the Questions form, change or add the question... and you're DONE. If you'll only ever do *one* survey, and never change it, and discard the database when you're done, then maybe you can do it that way... but it might be simpler to do so in Excel, since you're essentially building a spreadsheet rather than a database. -- John W. Vinson [MVP] |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
huge problems with database deisgn for survey
Hi I am back at my desk and can't seem to find my last post or the reply to it that arrived on Friday evening. The email link no longer works. I wasn't able to act on the suggestions as I don't have access to the DB at home. Duane you suggested i look at Northwind and compare, plus another comment re the append query. I am going to look at Northwind and redo the query but would be very grateful if you could repost your comments. thank you again. "Duane Hookom" wrote: Is your "ResultsToQuestionText" the append query? Could you share the SQL view of the append query? Do you have a form based on the Case table with a subform based on the results table? Did you set up the Link Master/Child properties? -- Duane Hookom Microsoft Access MVP "Desperate in Ontario" wrote: Sorry, I did say that I had done the append query. Obviously wrongly but I wasnt ignoring your advice. I realise that its hard work talking to a novice but I am trying to do this right rather than go for the easier option. "Duane Hookom" wrote: To get the results, you need to run an append query as per two previous replies in this thread. The questions are then displayed in a continuous subform. I'm not sure if it would help understand but if you look at the Northwind Orders and OrderDetails tables. Let's make a couple assumptions: - an order record is like a case record - an order detail is like a result - a product is like a question (let's assume there are only 7 products available or 7 questions) - we then have to assume that everyone is going to buy all seven products (answer all 7 questions) == northwind == You would create an append query based on your product table and the one Order from your order table. This would create 7 order detail records waiting for you to enter quantities to purchase. == survey == You would create an append query based on your questions table and the one Case from your tblCase table. This would create 7 tblResults records waiting for you to enter an answer value. You would never create a single field for each product to be ordered. For instance you wouldn't have an Orders table with fields like: Bread, Milk, Eggs, Apples, ... As I stated earlier, if your questions are fairly generic, you need to normalize. Maybe you should just allow the two local "Experts" create all the fields, controls, reports, queries, ... required with the multiple field solution ;-) -- Duane Hookom Microsoft Access MVP "Desperate in Ontario" wrote: Thanks for the replies Excel won't provide the answers though as it won't porvide reports in the same way as Access does. I am probably wrong there but my experience of Excel doesnt give me means of saying that those Cases who live in post code xxx, who are aged xx, answered, yes, scored 20 etc. My basic problem with this is that now I have the tables. I haven't been able to construct a form that has all the questions (i realize that I can get round this by using text boxes,) and a method of entering the answers so that the results table is populated. The two local "Experts" suggest that I use a field per question. Even some online examples use this method, So I am very confused. I really want to do this the right way tho, I don't want to build in problems for later, I have made a query that is ResultsToQuestionText. I thought this might help with the forms as a subform to case. i still have the problem of how to get a box for each response and show which question. I have tried substituting my questions into AYS but that was a mess too! thank you "Duane Hookom" wrote: I agree with John (as usual). One of the nice benefits of creating a normalized survey application is you don't have to create lots of fields, lookup tables, controls, etc. When I began working on the At Your Survey solution, I was taking over an application started by someone else. I very soon got tired of adding fields, adding tables, adding controls, adding code, adding logic,... While the normalized structure requires that your survey conforms with some basic constraints, it is quite flexible. It could be modified to provide a different user interface but the table structure should remain mostly the same. -- Duane Hookom Microsoft Access MVP "John W. Vinson" wrote: On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:17:01 -0800, Desperate in Ontario wrote: Hi, I have set up the forms and am trying to add the boxes for the results. Should I be looking at list boxes or combo boxes? Whichever is more suitable for your user interface. They both let you edit fields; they look different (the listbox always displays multiple rows, the combo drops down thereby saving screen space, and they handle keystrokes differently). Both work. My questions are listed in rows as text in tblQuestionsAsked, not as fields, so how do I enter each question into the form and have a box for the results? You don't enter questions INTO THE FORM. You *use* the form (or a Questions form) to enter questions INTO THE TABLE. The form for entering answers displays the data stored in the table. Should my results table have rows for each answer? Yes. Would it be so terrible if I went back to having a field for each question?? Yes. In the nature of surveys, questions change over time. If you have a field per question, then when you add or change a question, you must restructure your Table, restructure all Queries involving the table, redesign your Form, redesign your Reports... a monstrous amount of work. In a normalized design when you change or add a question you open the Questions form, change or add the question... and you're DONE. If you'll only ever do *one* survey, and never change it, and discard the database when you're done, then maybe you can do it that way... but it might be simpler to do so in Excel, since you're essentially building a spreadsheet rather than a database. -- John W. Vinson [MVP] |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
huge problems with database deisgn for survey
This is the SQL of the append query INSERT INTO tblResults ( CaseID, Results ) SELECT tblCase.CaseID, tblResults.Results FROM tblQuestionsAsked INNER JOIN (tblCase INNER JOIN tblResults ON tblCase.CaseID = tblResults.CaseID) ON tblQuestionsAsked.QuestionsID = tblResults.QuestionsID ORDER BY tblCase.CaseID; I have the master child fields set to CASE ID Thanks |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
huge problems with database deisgn for survey
Bumping this to the top in the hope of an answer. "Desperate in Ontario" wrote: This is the SQL of the append query INSERT INTO tblResults ( CaseID, Results ) SELECT tblCase.CaseID, tblResults.Results FROM tblQuestionsAsked INNER JOIN (tblCase INNER JOIN tblResults ON tblCase.CaseID = tblResults.CaseID) ON tblQuestionsAsked.QuestionsID = tblResults.QuestionsID ORDER BY tblCase.CaseID; I have the master child fields set to CASE ID Thanks |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
huge problems with database deisgn for survey
Your append query needs to append the CaseID and QuestionsAskedID values to
tblResults. The CaseID should come from the current form where the CaseID is bount to a text box named txtCaseID. Change your form and control names in the below SQL. Make sure you have a unique indes in tblResults based on CaseID and QuestionsAskedID. INSERT INTO tblResults ( CaseID, QuestionsAskedID) SELECT Forms!frmYourMainForm!txtCaseID, QuestionsAskedID FROM tblQuestionsAsked ; -- Duane Hookom Microsoft Access MVP "Desperate in Ontario" wrote: This is the SQL of the append query INSERT INTO tblResults ( CaseID, Results ) SELECT tblCase.CaseID, tblResults.Results FROM tblQuestionsAsked INNER JOIN (tblCase INNER JOIN tblResults ON tblCase.CaseID = tblResults.CaseID) ON tblQuestionsAsked.QuestionsID = tblResults.QuestionsID ORDER BY tblCase.CaseID; I have the master child fields set to CASE ID Thanks |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|