WHY

Well then let us hound microsoft to make Access easier to use than
Filemaker..

I know you can go and start typing stuff in in access.. it's like one of the
options when you start a new table

all i know is that i was working as a video game tester 7 years ago; and
there were 30 of us that had to write queries in a database in order to look
for duplicate bugs.. i know that all 30 of us learned it without fail in
about 2 hours. We could all write queries; using wizards; schedule a bunch
of queries using macros.. its' like childs play..

it just seems like that would be in the best interest of 90% of the worlds
computer users-- sit everyone down and spend 2 hours how to use access..

i just love how easy it is to use.. it is powerful.. i mean--

excel just won't work for reporting out of a database.. and access is too
hard to learn

so you guys think that microsoft should include access as a part of the
standard edition of office?

would that help??

i just know that excel is a disease; and i want to know why more people have
that sneer in their voice when they say 'oh, you mean microsoft access?'

i wish that microsoft would do something about their marketing problem

it's like access and excel are lovers.. some prefer the men; some like the
women.. thats your perogative.. but i for one; refuse to spend all day long
in a girly-man program

i just am one that realizes the efficiences that are available in my office
suite.

and i wish that microsoft would make acceess sexy again.

that's microsoft's problem in the database market--- they are pigeonholed
into a marketing problem with access; and SQL Server rocks-- but Microsoft
doesn't deliver a consistent marketing images that say 'databases are sexy;
here are our offerings'

microsoft has a marketing problem in access and that's why they're not more
successful in the database market.. is because all the excel people sneer
at Access.



"Bill Sharpe" wrote in message
...
Excel is not a database, although it can handle smaller flat-file
databases easily. Get into relational databases or a large number of
records and you will run into problems with Excel. A lot of people use
Excel because they don't have Access on their computers. And Access
isn't that easy to use -- FileMaker Pro is much more user-friendly.

I have taught Word, Excel, and Access in an introductory computer class.
Students can start typing immediately in Word or start filling in cells
directly in Excel. But they have to go through the steps of creating a
new database to get started in Access.
Bill

wrote in message
...
How is Access not intuitive? Can I get specifics, please?

I will work to get it changed.. I've been doing Access for so long my
fingers bleed DAO lol

I've tried to teach a dozen friends how to use Access over the years;
and
they just dont understand it.. I just feel like maybe I need to get some
sort of professional trainer training-- aka how to be a trainer.

I've had a dozen friends that have been out of work these past 4 years..
and
they can't get a real job.. and trying to teach them Access just isn't
working.

Or what I really wish; is that there were college-level programs that
focused on Excel, for example..

Not accounting, not finance, not VBA-- Excel.

I would gladly take night-classes for a year if I could be an Excel
Super
User-- I like a lot of thigns about Excel.. but I can't.. It just makes
me
sick to think about being forced to type stuff in spreadsheets all day
long.

I dont think that there are courses that are challenging enough in order
to
be of any interest to me.

I mean--

I just dont get it

I would gladly take a course in excel; if it had real-world
spreadsheets; of
real-world situations where poeple use Excel to report out of a
database.

But it's not the best platform for the job.

They just need to make a whole family of certifications for Excel power
users; I think...

I think that would help these people to grow-- because as it is; i just
see
a whole bunch of Excel novices that throw numbers around and cut and
paste..
i mean-- i don't think that very many excel people are that skilled at
it--
i mean; there aren't that many people using Lookups and stuff-- its just
like copy and paste; or referring to other cells..

I mean-- 3 or 4 certifications-- from entry level to advanced users to
developers..





"Nick Hodge" wrote in message
...
Aaron

Some interesting thoughts and many quite valid. People do blindly use
Excel
for things it really isn't made for, but when you have a tool which,
for
most users is quite intuitive, they will automatically try to move to
it.
I've seen photo albums held in Excel and have a financial controller
who
finds Access daunting as it's interface for the standard user is just
not
intuitive.

On the specific point of reports. I use an Excel front end to
summarise
over
250,000 records into a pivot table. The data comes from an Access
database
which is updated each week and takes around 3-4 minutes with no user
intervention.

It has multiple row and column fields a series of charts and with
about an
hours training is used throughout my organisation for everyone's needs
from
Finance through Marketing to Sales and Logistics by the user simply
dragging and dropping fields.

The data is accessible and graphically presented to even the most
reluctant
user with ease. None of which could be claimed for Access alone

I love both tools, but then I love data!

--
HTH
Nick Hodge
Microsoft MVP - Excel
Southampton, England
HIS


wrote in message
...
why is it that people like Excel so much?

I hate it with a passion-- it's like-- my job for the past 4 ot 6
years..
has to been to run around and fix 'excel messes'... automate such
and
such
excel report

it's like-- if you guys would just stop using excel-- treat it as a
drug--
and start doing stuff in Access-- this world would be a much more
efficient
world.

it's like-- people _never_ have clean data in Excel... there is no
validation.. people use it for data entry; and keeping track of
stuff--

and it just boggles my mind that people use this POS program for
reporting.
I mean-- it isn't a reporting tool. It isn't in the same league as
Access
and Crystal Reports.

It's like Access can automate what Excel people do; and then you
won't
get
stuck writing the same report every week.

Why don't more poeple hate Excel like I do?

I just am frustrated.. because I've seen enough Excel in my life
that it
makes me sick.. It really is a drug, or a disease..
And when I grow up; and I'm in charge of an IT department.. the
first
thing
that I'm going to do is to Uninstall Excel from _EVERYONE's_ machine
and
start with the basics.

It's all about reusability-- and I dont see excel having any.

And I just want to know why is it that poeple think that using Excel
for
reporting is an acceptable route?
It's like a travesty-- 50% of all people in the modern workplace--
all
they
do is make the same report in Excel; week in and week out.
and I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't try to really help
these
people
to use their time more efficiently. It's not about needing
sharepoint--
i
dont need sharepoint to help me to track my spreadsheets-- that
makes
the
problem worse.

Aaron

wrote in message
...
Well then let us hound microsoft to make Access easier to use than
Filemaker..

I know you can go and start typing stuff in in access.. it's like one of
the
options when you start a new table

------
Access is up to version 11. I wouldn't hold my breath about MS making it
easier to use.

I open Word and start typing immediately. I open Excel and start typing
immediately. I open Access and I can't start typing yet.

And Excel does have validation.

Bill

1) you can start typing in access, you idiot
2) is it really benefical to type the same spreadsheet every month??
Long-term-- is that how you increase in efficiency??

Access is about saving effort; and reusing business logic.. building queries
that you can reuse in multiple places.. instead of copying spreadsheets and
having a maintenance nightmare

I've seen this in every company i've ever been in-- and i've also seen a LOT
of Access in my day.. but I've easily seen 100 spreadsheets for every Access
database I've seen in the 20 companies i've consulted for. But I've seen a
LOT of Access in my day; I've seen ~~100 Access Applications in at least 3
companies i've been at.

i just dont understand it.. Access is a MUCH superior product; but there is
a lil marketing problem; and Microsoft can't win the database war without
confronting it.

Microsoft needs to

1) make Access sexy again
2) make it easier to use
3) include it with every version of Office
That is what they need to do to get traction in the marketplace.

So get it done, Microsoft-- there is my Christmas list to Microsoft..
1) make Access sexy again
2) make it easier to use
3) include it with every version of Office
1) make Access sexy again
2) make it easier to use
3) include it with every version of Office
1) make Access sexy again
2) make it easier to use
3) include it with every version of Office
1) make Access sexy again
2) make it easier to use
3) include it with every version of Office

people have the ability to have their own personal data warehouse.. That
is what Access is-- your own desktop data warehouse.

and still 50% of the workplace makes the same lame spreadsheet every month.
Copying and Pasting; and copying and pasting; i mean ****-- wasn't this
passe in 1995??

there are new Excel people being born every minute.. it's like DIDN'T WE
INVENT BIRTH CONTROL TO KEEP TABS ON YOU BEANCOUNTERS??

it just boggles my mind--

WHAT VALUE DO YOU GUYS SEE IN RECREATING THE SAME REPORT BY HAND EVERY
MONTH??

-aaron
ADP Nationalist


"Bill Sharpe" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
Well then let us hound microsoft to make Access easier to use than
Filemaker..

I know you can go and start typing stuff in in access.. it's like one of
the
options when you start a new table

------
Access is up to version 11. I wouldn't hold my breath about MS making it
easier to use.

I open Word and start typing immediately. I open Excel and start typing
immediately. I open Access and I can't start typing yet.

And Excel does have validation.

Bill

wrote in message
...
1) you can start typing in access, you idiot --watch it, Aaron!

No I cannot. The opening window in Word lets me start typing
immediately. The opening window in Excel lets me start typing in cell A1
immediately. The opening screen in Access 2003 is blank, except for a
task pane, which offers five choices under new file. If I select blank
database I get a file new database window and must give the database a
name, then click create. Then I get Access' DB window, where I can click
create table by entering data. I do not consider these steps to
represent "start typing in Access."

I'm not saying this is a difficult operation, but it is certainly more
complicated than starting Word or Excel.

I will agree with your main premise that Excel is not a major database
application, but Excel does have its merits as a spreadsheet.


Bill

Bill Sharpe wrote:
wrote in message
...
1) you can start typing in access, you idiot --watch it, Aaron!

No I cannot. The opening window in Word lets me start typing
immediately. The opening window in Excel lets me start typing in cell A1
immediately. The opening screen in Access 2003 is blank, except for a
task pane, which offers five choices under new file. If I select blank
database I get a file new database window and must give the database a
name, then click create. Then I get Access' DB window, where I can click
create table by entering data. I do not consider these steps to
represent "start typing in Access."

I'm not saying this is a difficult operation, but it is certainly more
complicated than starting Word or Excel.

I will agree with your main premise that Excel is not a major database
application, but Excel does have its merits as a spreadsheet.


Bill



Exactly Bill, I want Aaron to tell me an easy way to create a financial
model in Access and then start doing some sensitivity analysis.

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:37:56 -0800, "Bill Sharpe"
wrote:

I will agree with your main premise that Excel is not a major database
application, but Excel does have its merits as a spreadsheet.

As I like to say, "You can drive nails with a crescent wrench - but
that doesn't make it a hammer".

John W. Vinson[MVP]
Join the online Access Chats
Tuesday 11am EDT - Thursday 3:30pm EDT
http://community.compuserve.com/msdevapps

lol

"Bill Sharpe" a écrit dans le message de
...

wrote in message
...
1) you can start typing in access, you idiot --watch it, Aaron!

No I cannot. The opening window in Word lets me start typing
immediately. The opening window in Excel lets me start typing in cell A1
immediately. The opening screen in Access 2003 is blank, except for a
task pane, which offers five choices under new file. If I select blank
database I get a file new database window and must give the database a
name, then click create. Then I get Access' DB window, where I can click
create table by entering data. I do not consider these steps to
represent "start typing in Access."

I'm not saying this is a difficult operation, but it is certainly more
complicated than starting Word or Excel.

I will agree with your main premise that Excel is not a major database
application, but Excel does have its merits as a spreadsheet.


Bill

why not ????



"Bill Sharpe" a écrit dans le message de
...

wrote in message
...
1) you can start typing in access, you idiot --watch it, Aaron!

No I cannot. The opening window in Word lets me start typing
immediately. The opening window in Excel lets me start typing in cell A1
immediately. The opening screen in Access 2003 is blank, except for a
task pane, which offers five choices under new file. If I select blank
database I get a file new database window and must give the database a
name, then click create. Then I get Access' DB window, where I can click
create table by entering data. I do not consider these steps to
represent "start typing in Access."

I'm not saying this is a difficult operation, but it is certainly more
complicated than starting Word or Excel.

I will agree with your main premise that Excel is not a major database
application, but Excel does have its merits as a spreadsheet.


Bill

Sorry.. you have to save the file that you're workign on before you can
start typing.

Then when you create a new file-- taking a whole 10 seconds-- MAYBE--- then
you can 'create table by entering data'

this is about as easy as it gets.

you can dive right into it and start naming columsn and fields-- just like
you can in Excel.. and all you have to do is create 1 file ONCE and then
you're going to be twice as efficient long term.

I think that is a time-saving proposition personally




"Bill Sharpe" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
1) you can start typing in access, you idiot --watch it, Aaron!

No I cannot. The opening window in Word lets me start typing
immediately. The opening window in Excel lets me start typing in cell A1
immediately. The opening screen in Access 2003 is blank, except for a
task pane, which offers five choices under new file. If I select blank
database I get a file new database window and must give the database a
name, then click create. Then I get Access' DB window, where I can click
create table by entering data. I do not consider these steps to
represent "start typing in Access."

I'm not saying this is a difficult operation, but it is certainly more
complicated than starting Word or Excel.

I will agree with your main premise that Excel is not a major database
application, but Excel does have its merits as a spreadsheet.


Bill

so can we get Microsoft to make it so that when you launch Access; it will
automagically start a new database; and then it makes you save it when you
hit save?

make it more similiar to Excel and Word?

Just a lil bit of slight-of-hand would make this possible; i could probably
edit one of the MDW wizards and get this done in about 10 mintues

and then our precious beancounters could start typing right when they open
Access?

it would save them time-- it should at least be an option.

I create a new MDB or ADP probably 10 times per day anyways.. so it would
probably save me some time also

-Aaron


"NewsMan" wrote in message
news:bsLvd.79375$6f6.52213@edtnps89...
Bill Sharpe wrote:
wrote in message
...
1) you can start typing in access, you idiot --watch it, Aaron!

No I cannot. The opening window in Word lets me start typing
immediately. The opening window in Excel lets me start typing in cell A1
immediately. The opening screen in Access 2003 is blank, except for a
task pane, which offers five choices under new file. If I select blank
database I get a file new database window and must give the database a
name, then click create. Then I get Access' DB window, where I can click
create table by entering data. I do not consider these steps to
represent "start typing in Access."

I'm not saying this is a difficult operation, but it is certainly more
complicated than starting Word or Excel.

I will agree with your main premise that Excel is not a major database
application, but Excel does have its merits as a spreadsheet.


Bill



Exactly Bill, I want Aaron to tell me an easy way to create a financial
model in Access and then start doing some sensitivity analysis.