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#21
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Your Opinion on Design Question
Michael Gramelspacher wrote in
: On 25 Nov 2008 00:46:00 GMT, "David W. Fenton" wrote: Michael Gramelspacher wrote in m: If Steve were to drop the TblVendor nonsense and just name the table Vendors, if would be a giant step in conveying the idea that he is truly a competent database professional. That's a completely unwarranted assumption, and, I think, says more about the baggage you're carrying into the discussion than it does about the merit of any particular answer to the question itself. In the Access development world, it is standard practice, and to me, an Access developer who *doesn't* use it is the one who looks unprofessional. There are very good reasons for it in Access that derive in part from the application development environment and the way it presents information (and combines multiple namespaces in certain contexts). Now, I don't mean to imply that Tony is unprofessional -- he's obviously not, but his naming conventions always struck me as a quirk particular to *him*. And I think he's the bees knees despite it. Yes, you are probably correct about the baggage. Been reading too much of Celko, Celko is a moron. He keeps making the same arguments from theory over and over again and is never wrong about anything. According to himself, of course. I killfiled him a long time ago as his contributions were always way too impractical in most cases to be helpful. His dogmatic approach to all sorts of db issues always struck me as completely counterproductive in real-world situations. too much time perusing the sqlserver.programming newsgroup, Yet another place where a lot of people who've read a lot of books expound on real-world programming problems without any experience that allows them to offer real solutions. too much pondering the Microsoft templates for Access 2003. The Access templates are *filled* with *terrible* practices and I recommend enormous caution in modelling any app on them without major revisions. Ten years of casual use of Access and following the Access newsgroups and reading Access books, and ten years of seeing the tbl- prefix propagated upon wave after wave of new Access users. Sure, I know the reason. Because it is just the right thing to use for Access tables. How else can a person know whether Vendors is a table or a query? That's not actually the justification I use in my own work. It is just a matter of style. We can leave it at that. So, in other words, you're retracting your previous assertion. Good to know. -- David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/ usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/ |
#22
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Your Opinion on Design Question
"John... Visio MVP" wrote in
: I always consider tables to be collections of items and so use a plural name for a table. To access the table, the PK points to a record (a single item), so I would use the singular for the PK. So a table called People would have a PK of PersonId. I tend towards to the proper English terms rather than Entity names. Find Customer in Customers rather than Find pkCustomerId in tblCustomer But that's not what anyone is advocating, so you're just disagreeing with a strawman. Not terribly useful. -- David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/ usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/ |
#23
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Your Opinion on Design Question
"Steve" wrote:
If you are such a "truly competent database professional", answer this: Vendor appears in some VBA code, is Vendor a table or query? Why does it matter? Tony -- Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can read the entire thread of messages. Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/ |
#24
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Your Opinion on Design Question
Michael Gramelspacher wrote:
Ten years of casual use of Access and following the Access newsgroups and reading Access books, and ten years of seeing the tbl- prefix propagated upon wave after wave of new Access users. Sure, I know the reason. Because it is just the right thing to use for Access tables. But why is using tbl a prefix the right thing? How else can a person know whether Vendors is a table or a query? What does it matter? No difference between a table or query other than some queries aren't updatable. Tony -- Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can read the entire thread of messages. Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/ |
#25
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Your Opinion on Design Question
"Larry Daugherty" wrote:
Are you now going to jump in and object to every response with object prefixes embedded? Not at all. Just that if someone is going to start off designing a system I wanted to point out some alternatives. In this case, it's far removed from the issue.. Sure but I reserve the right to comment as I fee like. smile Shall we who embrace the Reddick naming convention jump on each of your posts and make a big deal out of the fact that you *don't support the most widely adopted naming convention for Access, VB and VBA*? We would be equally justified. More so, I believe. The more widely adopted the naming convention, the greater its value. However I feel the naming conventions are a hindrance and are of very little value. With the exception of VBA variables where I generally do use them. Too bad that your eagerness to refer to your own practices on your site caused you to single out a post of Steve's. Others then piled on. I don't know if you've been aware but his behavior has improved a whole bunch over what it was in years past. He has been doing a lot more responsible posting without the constant hustle of the unwary. I hadn't even realized it was Steve Santos as it wasn't his usual posting of paid help. I seldom read the names unless they stand out and/or have last names I recognize as a regular. Steve has been soliciting some lately though. Tony -- Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can read the entire thread of messages. Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/ |
#26
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Your Opinion on Design Question
"Larry Daugherty" wrote:
Are you now going to jump in and object to every response with object prefixes embedded? Oh, and no. I generally don't answer too many questions in the tablesdbdesign newsgroup. I just look for interesting subjects. And I have no idea how I define interesting. smile Tony -- Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can read the entire thread of messages. Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/ |
#27
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Your Opinion on Design Question
On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:53:07 -0700, "Tony Toews [MVP]" wrote:
Michael Gramelspacher wrote: Ten years of casual use of Access and following the Access newsgroups and reading Access books, and ten years of seeing the tbl- prefix propagated upon wave after wave of new Access users. Sure, I know the reason. Because it is just the right thing to use for Access tables. But why is using tbl a prefix the right thing? How else can a person know whether Vendors is a table or a query? What does it matter? No difference between a table or query other than some queries aren't updatable. Tony I did not mean for that to be taken seriously. I view using a prefix for tables as perhaps an addiction. I had the addiction too once. At some point I was asked why I did that, and all I knew to answer was that everyone else did it. Here is a site with 100s of data models. I have seen people referred to the site from Access and Sqlserver newsgroups. I do not think you will see and tbl- prefixes there. http://www.databaseanswers.org/data_models/index.htm And, of course, how about Northwind? |
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